Curse

HawkofStorms · Oct 02, 2009, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Agreed infymys. It's almost like Regina doesn't understand why we are mad.

We understand you wanted good skill bars, and that many good skill bars are popular. But then why a) have rule against violating intellectual property law b) not enforce that rule c) have a contest at all if you could have done it yourself

Chocobo1 · Oct 02, 2009, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcissia

Perhaps those are things that should've been done anyway. People have been complaining about hero AI for how long now?
Would people have complained if some popular builds didn't win? I'm sure there are people who would like some of the current popular hero builds to stick around, which is why so many of them were submitted. Perhaps that's why Anet chose them? Because it seemed to be what most people wanted. Like I said, I agree that they shouldn't have asked for original builds, but there's always going to be as many people happy as angry, so I guess they just did what they thought best or what they wanted.

They aren't hero builds, they are popular human builds. Many people made builds assuming they had to bend to poor AI function, along with not copy pasting from PvX.

Bug John · Oct 02, 2009, 11:09 PM // 23:09

even with an improved AI, these builds are not adapted to heroes / henchies

for example, the shock warrior :
- won't use shock or bull strike properly (there are so many different situations, how could a bot do that ?)
- won't switch from casters to lineback when his monks need it
- won't use frenzy and his cancel stance like a real player would
- won't call spikes

even if the AI gets decent, it won't be anywhere close enough to what a real warrior should do

same goes with all other builds

Narcissia · Oct 02, 2009, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

They aren't hero builds, they are popular human builds. Many people made builds assuming they had to bend to poor AI function, along with not copy pasting from PvX.

Ah, sorry, my bad. I've always said heroes/henchies are retarded, so yeah I guess it does make sense. I'm not going to complaing about it though, and hopefully updated AI will make it at least a bit better. I never really expected the henchies to get used no matter what the build though, honestly.

Winterclaw · Oct 02, 2009, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Regina, here is one of the conditions from the contest:

Quote:

Originality: Entries must be the submission of the contestant and cannot be taken from any other source.

Source

In other words you guys did not throw out entries based on what Arkantos said. I'm going to take it a step further and suggest you should have taken the time before hand to make sure that pvx builds couldn't have been eligible to submit. If submitting pvx builds were allowed, and many people assumed it wasn't based on the above general condition, it should have been explicitly noted... which as the CR is your responsibility for getting right.

This is what I think has people the most upset: Anet publicly stated the rules to be one thing and when it came time to judge they did what they felt like. Going back to an earlier criticism, if you were going to pick the wiki builds because they were the meta, why did you even bother running a contest to begin with. Why should we try to follow the rules and enter contests if you guys are going to change them at your own pleasure? You guys said you wanted originality, there's even a quote from Martian saying as much, and after that you took some of the least original builds possible. The fans are anrgy because anet intentionally lied to us!. If you said you wanted original builds then even if they weren't the most effective things you should have stuck behind your words and picked the best of the original builds available. You didn't. Thus you guys are liars.

Secondly there is the complaint that a lot of the builds Anet has chosen can't be used effectively by the AI. AI is difficult to get right so we can't expect it to be fixed rendering some of the builds useless. Furthermore there is a "human element" to playing some classes that make it even more difficult to try to make an AI for so not everything can be programmed in with current technology. A lot of people put effort into trying to create builds that the AI could use well unlike some meta bars that it can't.

Now you have said that the AI will be fixed to run the builds well, but seeing as we have proof you guys are liars how can we believe you on that or on anything else? How do we know you aren't just trying to shut us up when you say that? Considering how anet failed to make the AI better for HM, that seems to be beyond you all.

snaek · Oct 02, 2009, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by regina buenaobra

It probably wasn't that surprising that players were going to submit builds that are proven and commonly-used. Popular and commonly-used builds got submitted by many, many people, and they are popular for a reason: they're effective.

wait what? most of those builds are never used on heroes, and the others are rarely used on heroes. good luck on that complete ai overhaul to achieve that status of "effective" your aiming for.

Taurus ChicKa · Oct 02, 2009, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Good grief, I keep seeing this thread pop up and was like, "What's this all about, anyway?" So I clicked it to investigate, and was in a state of shock. I didn't enter this contest, and it sounds like it's a good thing I didn't. I can't believe ANet broke their own rules and that PVXwiki builds won. Ouch...I'm really at a loss as to what else to say here.

Bobby2 · Oct 02, 2009, 11:24 PM // 23:24

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