Curse

Lawnmower · Oct 12, 2009, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Just a rant about personal observations in the MMO space. I don't pretend to be a know-it-all or expert-on-MMOs or Guild Wars. Just wanted to share some thoughts! Cheers!

The biggest curse of the idea behind the concept of the MMORPG, has always, and WILL always be that they are "never ending". Carrot-on-a-stick gameplay that basically goes on forever. You can even argue the ideology if it's even a game if it's in-win-able! After all, would Chess, be a game if it went on forever?

The great thing about Guild Wars is that there is an end to it. You basically have the possibility of paying for whatever content that you want. Getting left behind in the curve is not something that happens when you choose not to buy the latest expansion or game update.

It's that way in almost any other MMORPG. You are caught and stuck. The fall of monthly fee is that the consumer. The people who are in charge can not vote with their wallets. They can't play the game they love without becoming part of finansing the content that they are forced to pay, regardless of what they feel.

When you buy something in the shop you always have a choice to buy or not to buy. But if I like World of Warcraft for example, but do not like the direction it is going, I can not vouch my opinion through choosing to not buy their latest expansions and updates, but simply either totally stop playing, or live with whatever they decide.
It's said that the MMORPG becomes the Gamers game, after it has been released. In most cases that is a complete and utter lie.

Guild Wars is absolutely fantastic because you can jump in and start playing. It does not bind you. Nobody who lets themselfs become consumed by MMORPGs to follow the train really wins the game. They don't gain anything.
I do believe in the positive aspects of social networking and getting friends online, but the way that "some" Hardcore MMORPG gamers establish their reasoning for spending SOO much time on a product, is being in denial.

While I personally have had experience with MMORPGs for around 10 years now, I have never been "addicted" in the sense that the press feeds on a daily basis. I do believe that some people are truly addicted, like you can be addicted to gambling or sniffing ladies underwear, but I also believe that many people use this as a scapegoat.
Saying that you are just addicted and just accepting it, is just another way of dropping all your responsibilities and blaming something exterior(the game). It might as well be being addicted to a DVD boxset of "Days of Our Lives" or "Wheel of fortune". It's being misused.

But upsets me is that my playstyle is that I love MMORPGs. Making a character and exploring a world, but the tenacious grind that follows is always a problem.

I hope that ArenaNet will continue to support Guild Wars. I think what Valve have done with Team Fortress 2 was to create a Win-Win situation for both the end user and Valve itself. By continuing to improve the game in a meaningful way since the launch, interest have peaked much later than it normally would due to the free updates, and that is something that is benefical for both the consumer and Valve.

Likewise, I hope that Anet will help Guild Wars grow and evolve even after GW2 is released.
I still think there are lots of ways that ArenaNet can give Guild Wars more lasting appeal without choking it down the consumers necks.
I have greatly appreciated concepts like Hard Mode and Titles. They have been very fun to work on. As has the support for the game in general. Only once in the time I have played since launch have I experienced server downtime. I am amazed at the quality and work of this game.

I am absolutely speechless at all the stuff you have done, and I hope you will keep working on this game.
I think you were right. Right on the money for the entire time.
In the long run, your design philosophy is better than many of the other ones.

I would love to see more bosses, customization, loot, story and so on in this setup. It reminds me a bit of Diablo, and even some of the older MUDs I toyed with as a kid. It's fun just going to quickly kill a boss and find something cool. It's nice to really just be able to do something quick.

Now it has reached a point where I can just play it on a silly little Netbook and have fun. Yeah, so I guess in total I would love just to have more of Guild Wars. I would love to pay for an expansion like Utopia for the game.

I also think it could be really cool if Guild Wars 2 players had further aspirations and motivations to go back and play Guild Wars 1. Guild Wars 1 is a different error, but I think it would really show commitment if you(Arenanet) would make an effort to keep people interested in Guild Wars 1.
I don't know if you wanted to experiment on GW1 for things you were planning for GW2, or add a mode similiar to Hardcore from Diablo, or Revamp the PvP or add some very hard Bosses or very hard-to-get-loot, but it would be very appreciated!
This game is so fun, and I have a long list of things I would still like to see in the game.

I know that GW2 will probably be quite different, and that's okay. GW2 will be a different game, but that's okay since GW1 is still here. We can always enjoy them both, as long as there are people playing both!

Xolotov · Oct 12, 2009, 06:19 PM // 18:19

I love your rant. Very strong points were the fact that there is an end to the game, but plenty left to play, and titles can give you tons of extra play.

Fril Estelin · Oct 12, 2009, 06:24 PM // 18:24

I think there's a lot of true comments in your OP. Yet I think that MMO is a new genre from traditionall games, the same way facebook or twitter are changing the way we communicate (an evolution rather than a revolution). People have (relatively) more free time and are more willing to invest it in virtual worlds, GW is no exception. Despite what you describe seems like a sensible approach to GW, many people are sort of "addicted" to it, but hopefully not in the sense of WoW or other P2P MMOs.

You're wrong on 2 minor accounts IMO: GW2 will follow the main lines of GW1 (as Anet has said time and time again) and:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

JAfter all, would Chess, be a game if it went on forever?

Actually, "chess" is never-ending. It's different from a "chess game" which would be akin to a quest/mission in GW. But I'm nitpicking!

Gift3d · Oct 12, 2009, 06:30 PM // 18:30

guild wars is an amazing game that nobody here seems to give credit to for. you're right. a lot has been done to the game since release, and there's always going to be more the community wants to be done -- and for 4 years and change, the developers have been throwing new things, big and small, at us pretty steadily. being as guild wars is so much more different than any other mmo, and was truly original in many ways, of course it'll have it's flaws for the first game of it's series.

i do agree that oddly i don't feel addicted to guild wars as i have felt about other games. i don't feel like i GOTTA play (well, maybe on double fame weekends but that's it), just play at my own leisure and be cool with it.

i've played lots of MMOs, most of which i disliked, and i try my best not to take all this for granted and give anet some well deserved support when i can. it's nice to have a game i thoroughly enjoy to play in my off time to relax and have fun with.

damkel · Oct 12, 2009, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Great post. Agree with a lot said there. Looking forward to GW2 as well and hope Anet keep up the good work and the very unique design philosophy.

~ Dan ~ · Oct 12, 2009, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xolotov

the fact that there is an end to the game, but plenty left to play, and titles can give you tons of extra play.

This. The low & early level cap is what every MMO should use, imo. Instead of this "grind to 60, grind end gear, grind to 70 with next expansion, grind new gear" etc etc.

Having a cap on things permanently is great. I just hope GW2 puts the emphasis back on PvP as end-game, and not title grinding.

Bob Slydell · Oct 12, 2009, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~ Dan ~

This. The low & early level cap is what every MMO should use, imo. Instead of this "grind to 60, grind end gear, grind to 70 with next expansion, grind new gear" etc etc.

I did that for 2 years in EverQuest II until I snapped and rage quit. Similar to WoW, EQ2 as well as other same type MMOs are just plain deadly diseases.

I think OP has very strong points and I agree with it a lot.

obsidian ectoplasm · Oct 12, 2009, 08:41 PM // 20:41

you have some good points. quality post

Eskimoz · Oct 12, 2009, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Love the post OP and i believe that GW1 does in fact have some potential left to it.

Such as explaining how the heck the Charr managed to conquer Ascalon while my Warrior was there....

Rhamia Darigaz · Oct 12, 2009, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

Guild Wars is absolutely fantastic because you can jump

actually you can't. the reasoning behind this is very technical and complicated, but in a nutshell you can't jump because the spacebar is already being used as the attack button. anet has stated that they are trying to fix this dilemma for guild wars 2.

damkel · Oct 12, 2009, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

actually you can't. the reasoning behind this is very technical and complicated, but in a nutshell you can't jump because the spacebar is already being used as the attack button. anet has stated that they are trying to fix this dilemma for guild wars 2.

lol.

This dilema is of dire concern and the technical problems of jumping must be solved before Anet can even think of releasing GW2

Zahr Dalsk · Oct 12, 2009, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Jumping is kinda pointless. A person can't really jump that high anyways. More useful would be a climb function.

MithranArkanere · Oct 12, 2009, 09:02 PM // 21:02

GW is the best game because it's the game I chose.
I chose GW because it was the best game out there.

It can't get simpler. Although you can elaborate more saying things like: "You can leave it for 3 months and you won't be left behind by your leveled friends" or "You won't have to spend 30 minutes walking to go from city to city" or "You won't have to pay monthly fees".

Zodiac Meteor · Oct 12, 2009, 09:11 PM // 21:11

The huge problem is ArenaNet is diverting their attention to GW2 and for good reasons.

I make games as a hobbie and when I look at guild wars and look at one of my best games I spent 100+ hours on. Guild Wars is astonishing. Free to play, 1,000's of skills to balance, super deep lore, and then list can go forever.
GW2 will be started from scratch with a new physics engine, skills/abilities spread across 4 races, new storyline. If you want GW2 in the next 2 years, let them work on it as much as possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Jumping is kinda pointless. A person can't really jump that high anyways. More useful would be a climb function.

Play Monster Hunter 3, then come back and dare tell me it's useless.
(To save you time, MH3 is all about dodging foes attacks. Armor is good but it won't keep you alive for long)

If you look at GW2 trailer, the jumping looks real. No doubt it will cost energy to hop around so you can't spam it like in WoW. Comparing the jumping function in the two games, GW2 looks super real. From the leg lifts to the landing.

Pugs Not Drugs · Oct 12, 2009, 09:13 PM // 21:13

It's refreshing to see a post that is actually congratulating A-Net instead of getting angry at them for something they did or didn't do.

Ghost Dog · Oct 12, 2009, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Jumping is kinda pointless. A person can't really jump that high anyways. More useful would be a climb function.

I vote for pvp emote of grabbing said climber and pulling their pants down on accident.

Gun Pierson · Oct 12, 2009, 09:17 PM // 21:17

@Lawnmower: First you say it's a curse that mmo's never end and at the same time you say you would love more content in GW. GW1 has ended, which I still think was a bad idea, they should have at least continued to bring out an expansion or two until GW2. Especially because it uses the MTG model. They didn't have the recources though so case closed.

I also don't agree with your part about being addictive and using it to run away from one's responsabilities. It's perfecly possible that one is 'addicted' to gaming, but finds a good balance between work, daily duties, socialising and free time to play. I know several people like that in real life. One of my friends turns into a hardcore gaming monster for a weekend two times a year when the kids and the wife are out of town. I see the kid in his eyes when that happens. The rest of the year he's the perfect husband with a respectable job who plays casually.

Progressing character(s) is indeed what it is all about. That's why it shouldn't have ended after Eotn. It left me and some of my gaming friends without new challenges in GW. The art is to satisfy both the casual and the hardcore gamer without too much grind. This is a difficult thing to achieve, especially without recources.

Don't get me wrong, Anet indeed have set a new standard. And I agree with you that in other MMO's it feels different. It's like they drag everything to make sure people keep on subscribing. I'm totally against that model.

I'm tired and should have gone to bed, but instead I wanted to comment on your post because you took the time yourself too. I'll reread everything again tomorrow in case I missed the point(s).

~ Dan ~ · Oct 12, 2009, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisworld

I did that for 2 years in EverQuest II until I snapped and rage quit.

I had that experience with LOTRO and got bored. It seems every MMO company thinks raising the level cap is the best/only way to add more content, and GW is proof that's not the case.

Premium Unleaded · Oct 12, 2009, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Don't underestimate the ability to jump people! Not being able to do it completely killed Ghost Recon for me

dunky_g · Oct 12, 2009, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Jumpings fun for the 1st 20 mins or so, and then you get bored of it.