Curse

AtomicMew · Oct 21, 2009, 06:48 AM // 06:48

I'm finding A.net's response extremely immature. It seems like Gaile just says whatever the hell she feels like with no repercussions or even temper from A.net higher up's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaile

The police department is not charged with giving a ticket to every person who speeds. They're not prohibited from ticketing anyone until they can ticket everyone.

That's just such a ridiculous and childish argument and would never hold up in court. If you are speeding 60 in a 50 MPH zone and a cop stops you when there is someone going 80 MPH in the lane right next to you, you will not and should not be the one getting a ticket. (I know TWO people who took it to court and got out of speeding tickets for this very reason.)

Honestly, I'm getting pretty sick of how A.net never admits their mistakes and then goes on to treat everyone like criminals by retroactive proclamations. This has happened SO MANY TIMES.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. A.net really needs to step it up, or risk losing dedicated customers.

QueenofDeath · Oct 21, 2009, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Quote:

(I know TWO people who took it to court and got out of speeding tickets for this very reason.)

Ahhhh here we go with the "I know somebody who knows somebody who knows someones cousins sisters mothers brothers fathers so n so" agenda statements. Give me the court name and document #'s please? These will be recorded in the public files. Very easy to obtain just call the court of records and ask about those specific people you know and those traffic court proceedings.

)

Quote:

I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. A.net really needs to step it up, or risk losing dedicated customers.

Customers like you they won't mind losing. Afterall they already have your money now you are just wasted resources to them so out with the bad and in with the good will be great for a change.

) Main thing don't cheat, don't exploit and don't do it because someone else does it is the attitude to have when it comes to things like this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
It's our responsibility to do what we can to monitor the game and to correct wrongdoing within the game. But no team -- no team is any game -- has the sort of omniscience you seem to think we have. For all the records there are, someone will find a way to work around them to hurt players or to take advantage of the gameplay mechanics to the detriment of the community as a whole. I can give you a sort of hypothetical situation, just as a for-instance: We can track trades. Scammers know that. So say they tell innocent players some rooster-and-bull story about how they need to "see" the item and they can only see it properly if the item is dropped on the ground. Then, hey presto! They steal it off the ground! So say we then develop a means to view every item that is dropped on the ground. What happens? Right, they then find yet another way to take advantage of the trusting and the unsuspecting.

Remember how, when the game came out, there wasn't a confirmation of trade? That people could swap a useless item for the good one that their trading partner thought he was getting? Remember when it was difficult to distinguish between gold and platinum in the trade window? Remember when you could leech without a Dishonor mark? Remember when... Well, I think you see my point. Development is an ever-evolving process, but the bad guys are always moving forward, as we are, and it would be wrong to stop action until every single one of them could be caught.

To put it very directly: There is no moral or legal imperative to adopt a stance that says "Unless we can catch every single person who abused the system, we cannot (or will not) action anyone we catch." We will act, when we can, and we will not accept harassment, criticism, or threats of "legal action" on the basis of "You got caught and that other guy did not." If you are guilty, and you get caught, everything else is just so much hot air.

Excellent ^ post Gaile and I'm glad you all are doing what you do. I don't cheat have never cheated and won't exploit something either just because someone else did. I appreciate you permanently banning those players that do. I have never liked those that thwarted the rules because they THINK they can get away with it on a because "so n so did and got away with it so should I." So ban em ban em each one an all.

)

Riot Narita · Oct 21, 2009, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

If you are speeding 60 in a 50 MPH zone and a cop stops you when there is someone going 80 MPH in the lane right next to you, you will not and should not be the one getting a ticket. (I know TWO people who took it to court and got out of speeding tickets for this very reason.)

That's BS. Imagine if the law really worked like that. You could do whatever you like and get away with it... as long as there is somebody worse than you nearby.

Speeding is speeding. If you are caught, you will pay.

That there are even worse offenders than yourself, is not a valid defense. The cop should have gone after the more dangerous driver as a higher priority, but whatever - you still broke the law, you're the one who got caught, you still pay.

Arkantos · Oct 21, 2009, 10:30 AM // 10:30

So, there's something I don't understand. This could have been easily fixed two ways:

- Make resigning/leaving a match give dishonorable
- Remove hero battles from z quest rotation

So, it's so serious that they're willing to ban people for it, but it's not serious enough to apply a quick, simple fix. How does that make any sense? People have been exploiting hero battles since the ladder came out, possibly before (I don't remember). Tell me, has anyone ever been banned for /rolling? Doubtful. So, it's not ok to manipulate hero battles when thousands of people are doing it in a single day, but it was acceptable back before red resign day? Oh, that makes sense!

On another note, rawr manipulated the outcome of a monthly automated tournament. What did they get? They got a slap on the wrist. Now people are going to be banned for manipulating this? Another thing that completely makes sense. ANet are claiming this as ladder manipulation. Rawr get a slap on the wrist for manipulating a monthly, while people who are 'manipulating' the ladder of a PvP format a very small minority of people like at rank 20k+ is a bannable offense. Leaves a very sour taste in my mouth, ANet.

Go ahead and ban people. Just don't be surprised when the outcome is a major shitfest that could have easily been avoided weeks ago, and don't be surprised when this declining game begins declining even faster.

And for the record, no, I've never participated in red resign day. I do, however, find it absolutely ridiculous that ANet let it go on for so long, and even more ridiculous that they're willing to ban people.

refer · Oct 21, 2009, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

On another note, rawr manipulated the outcome of a monthly automated tournament. What did they get? They got a slap on the wrist. Now people are going to be banned for manipulating this? Another thing that completely makes sense. ANet are claiming this as ladder manipulation. Rawr get a slap on the wrist for manipulating a monthly, while people who are 'manipulating' the ladder of a PvP format a very small minority of people like at rank 20k+ is a bannable offense. Leaves a very sour taste in my mouth, ANet.

I thought rawr always did that. Anet likes to kiss some people's ass but nobodies, screw them.

Reformed · Oct 21, 2009, 02:28 PM // 14:28

If you get busted from RR that sucks but that's life. If you get away with it then crack yourself a (root)beer and enjoy your loot. There is no way they are going to ban everyone just like they didn't ban all the dupers back in '07 because of chain of custody. Caveat emptor applied to an item you, as a perspective buyer, had no idea came from ill gotten gains isn't going to pan out so well. That's why a large swath of items stay and the biggest most flagrant violators tend to go...the same as before. Or, they could prove me wrong and actually remove the influx of material wealth this time...I doubt it.

Those huge block quotes look like the typical obfuscatory answers full of irrelevant information Gaile was so well known for. A simple this is what happened and this is what we are doing will always suffice. Everything else just further pisses people off and fuels more speculation.

Chico · Oct 21, 2009, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenofDeath

That's too bad MORON that you lost your GW account BAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW you stupid moron loser. That's what you get for CHEATING and I'm glad you lost it and hope you NEVER get it back baw haw haw haw haw.

That's very mature of you QueenofDeath. Thank you.

Back on topic. Support has not mentioned RRday to me at all. I'm accused of botting which I don't do. I'm still waiting. They are taking it very very slowly. Something doesn't smell right. The only response I got from support is already quoted a couple pages back. They've got all the information they possibly can get from me. I linked my banning with RRday simply because I was in HB RRing at the time the booted me. Gaile has stated she know about this one RRday ban. I wonder who she's talking about. However my ban reason was "You're a bot". I'm still waiting on their resolution. If anyone would have pm'ed they would have noticed I was right there, you know, me not being a bot at all.

Don't feel bad for me. Feel bad for GW it used to be a great game and it is on a downward spiral.

I don't know what red flags I raised or how I raised them to make them think I'm a bot. I can tell you I wasn't even very effective at RR and fought when needed but they have not seen that in their logs... hmmm. I was chatting around yet I'm still a bot. hmmm. I was pm'ing with people. hmmm. Very bot-like behavior. I wonder if their next move is "Oh, did we say TERMINATED YOU for botting? We're sorry, we meant to say: You've been banned for participating in RRday. Have a nice day" Can they even do that? Change the reason for a ban from bot to anything they please? They've told me twice that I was using a third party program and that I was carefully selected by log inspecting and what-not. I wonder if they can contradict themselves again with a straight face.

I think it is pretty simple. If they really banned me thinking I'm a bot I've given them proof that I'm not. They can see what I was doing. Should be an easy-peasy revert.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hissy

That there are even worse offenders than yourself, is not a valid defense. The cop should have gone after the more dangerous driver as a higher priority, but whatever - you still broke the law, you're the one who got caught, you still pay.

Anet has all the information they need to like get in terms of quests cashed in the top 10, top 100, etc. RRday-ers. They have all the information to know how many matches anyone resigned or mapped out on any given account. Saying they can't detect it all is BS. They *can* go after all users. They could apply a mass ban.

FREDtheDINOSAUR · Oct 21, 2009, 03:16 PM // 15:16

I'm new, so if you don't know this about me yet I'll tell you - I'm a Wiki Gnome.

Auron over on the wiki has made some great points about RR day bans and one of my favorite is this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auron

Yeah, technically, they're violating the EULA. However, I must remind us all that Rebel Rising manipulated a Monthly Automated Tournament Guild versus Guild Final and all they got was a slap on the wrist - a temporary cape trim removal. If the GvG monthly tournament final isn't worth banning over, why the hell is Hero Battles?

He has a page on it that's pretty true and funny here.

Remind me, have we heard anything from the CR team on this yet?

gone · Oct 21, 2009, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

So, there's something I don't understand. This could have been easily fixed two ways:

- Make resigning/leaving a match give dishonorable
- Remove hero battles from z quest rotation

yep. could have, should have and maybe would have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

So, it's so serious that they're willing to ban people for it, but it's not serious enough to apply a quick, simple fix. How does that make any sense?

That is for Anet to know, and you to find out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

People have been exploiting hero battles since the ladder came out, possibly before (I don't remember). Tell me, has anyone ever been banned for /rolling? Doubtful.

look at that as the communities 1st warning. i.e. DON'T DO IT. (/roll removed)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

So, it's not ok to manipulate hero battles when thousands of people are doing it in a single day, but it was acceptable back before red resign day? Oh, that makes sense!

I think you're forgetting one thing here...Zquest. amirite?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

On another note, rawr manipulated the outcome of a monthly automated tournament. What did they get? They got a slap on the wrist.

Hmmm...Communities 2nd WARNING?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Now people are going to be banned for manipulating this? Another thing that completely makes sense. ANet are claiming this as ladder manipulation. Rawr get a slap on the wrist for manipulating a monthly, while people who are 'manipulating' the ladder of a PvP format a very small minority of people like at rank 20k+ is a bannable offense. Leaves a very sour taste in my mouth, ANet.

I guess some people are to stupid to see the warning signs, Huh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Go ahead and ban people. Just don't be surprised when the outcome is a major shitfest that could have easily been avoided weeks ago, and don't be surprised when this declining game begins declining even faster.

what are you hiding? you claim you didn't partake, but those are the words of a desperate, condemned man.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

And for the record, no, I've never participated in red resign day. I do, however, find it absolutely ridiculous that ANet let it go on for so long, and even more ridiculous that they're willing to ban people.

I think the community had enough warnings, yet they chose to go on ahead, and merrily exploit a situation thinking "it's ok, anet can't ban us. thousands are doing it"

Cracko · Oct 21, 2009, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Enough warnings?

As in a warning on gaile grey's talk page?

Reformed · Oct 21, 2009, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by FREDtheDINOSAUR

He has a page on it that's pretty true and funny here.

If you haven't read this go do it, it's actually right on the mark. Maybe a bit tl;dr for guru but it's still a great analysis of what is going on especially the part about login announcements.

Sankt Hallvard · Oct 21, 2009, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by flubber

I think the community had enough warnings, yet they chose to go on ahead, and merrily exploit a situation thinking "it's ok, anet can't ban us. thousands are doing it"

Who is this "community" you speak of?

shadows of hob · Oct 21, 2009, 03:47 PM // 15:47

HA and stuff are down again.

I blame the RR players.

gone · Oct 21, 2009, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

Who is this "community" you speak of?

you know. the ones who are smart enough to band together, by the thousands, and exploit/cheat but then claim they had no idea it was wrong. because no one told them.

that community.

kupp · Oct 21, 2009, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by flubber

yep. could have, should have and maybe would have.

That is for Anet to know, and you to find out.

look at that as the communities 1st warning. i.e. DON'T DO IT. (/roll removed)

I think you're forgetting one thing here...Zquest. amirite?

Hmmm...Communities 2nd WARNING?

I guess some people are to stupid to see the warning signs, Huh?

what are you hiding? you claim you didn't partake, but those are the words of a desperate, condemned man.

I think the community had enough warnings, yet they chose to go on ahead, and merrily exploit a situation thinking "it's ok, anet can't ban us. thousands are doing it"

So that's a valid warning? You probably don't realize that only an extremely small fraction of the community visits guru or is even aware of what guru is. How many of the people on the 63 American districts only are aware of the /roll or rawr's slap in the wrist? A lot of them there are completely unknown to all of this and yet all of them were there.

Seriously, how can you ever consider the /roll and rawr incident and the notes on gaile's obscure wiki talkpage a valid warning, instead of - let's say - a god damn warning on the login screen? If Anet wants to communicate something to someone they should do it directly, not through a wiki and definatelly not through a fansite forum.

The fact that they're willing to ban a large portion of the community due to something that's gonna be removed tomorrow, when similar things happened and Anet ignored them (/roll, rawr), when they didn't bother to fix it through whatever options they had (that were plenty) or even so much as clearly warning people that RRing was illegal when they knew it was such an insanely widespread event... It's ridiculous.

gone · Oct 21, 2009, 04:01 PM // 16:01

please keep the excuses coming. they are ridiculous. but nevertheless, entertaining.

kupp · Oct 21, 2009, 04:05 PM // 16:05

I always love when people ignore arguments and just insult or say something completely off the discussion, but that's ok. You're just proving my point further.

Sankt Hallvard · Oct 21, 2009, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by flubber

you know. the ones who are smart enough to band together, by the thousands, and exploit/cheat but then claim they had no idea it was wrong. because no one told them.

that community.

Because word goes around you assume it also comes with a label "exploit/cheat"? The pve'er who got a tip from someone, doesn't know who Linsey or Gaile is much less that they have several webpages and forums where they share bits and pieces of what's allowed and not, who haven't heard about the "lucky 117" or whatever it was, and who certainly don't know who or what a [rawr] is.

That community?

Ladder manipulation? They're not even close to being on any ladder. To me the RR thing seems just like a pve activity. You load some heroes, enter, do some robot activity and collect reward. I can't possibly begin to fathom how so many of you see this as some huge violation that warrants a ban. Everyone is happy, no RR was forced upon anyone. You might as well ban all the speed clear groups for abusing SF if "RR devalues my zkey/ecto stock" is your only complaint.

JimmyNeutron · Oct 21, 2009, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Solutions to all the winers/whiners/weaners

etc....

7 Day Banned Starting Wednesday, Oct 27, and ending in Nov 3. So, 1st day back from ban will be on Nov 3, AFTER HALLOWEEN Event!!!!

C'mon ANET!!! I quadriple dare you!!! What are you ANET? A CHICKEN?!?!?!

I'm a Red/Blue resigner and approve of this message.

Gun Pierson · Oct 21, 2009, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by FREDtheDINOSAUR

Remind me, have we heard anything from the CR team on this yet?

What CR team? Ah you mean those 3 peeps that get payed by Anet for reading the forums and having meetings with the live team and support so they can tell us nothing? Looks like a great and easy job, I'm always open to join that team. On second thought, no tx, because I would actually want to communicate with the playerbase and use the forums instead of wiki pages and without copy/paste and one liners like: I can confirm.

back on topic: Some will get caught, others won't. That's life. Gaile makes sense. I'm certainly not a fan of the Eula, but we all agreed to accept the terms in it. Match manipulation is against the rules.

What is a suitable punishment? Not sure. You can't really compare this with Rawr, in my knowledge they did it once in the monthly and got slapped on the fingers and that was the end of the story.

One thing is certain, communication on Anet's part was very bad on this and it feels like they set up a trap. However I think it's just negligence of the CR team. Either that or they run around like headless chickens at the office.