Curse

Targren · Aug 20, 2009, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

If any character with any profession and all skills can't join any team to do any thing, then that's a reason to changed, change, change and changed until it happens.

That's an interesting concept and, strictly speaking, it does seem that an argument could be made that it is the ultimate balance. Then you end up with something like Final Fantasy Tactics, though, where there's little difference between characters but their skills... at which point, the player who doesn't have the right skill rather than the right class is still left out, and you lose a lot of variety.
Still, I guess it's an option (not for GW, obviously. Too late for that now that ursan is dead).

Chieftain Heavyhand · Aug 20, 2009, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

If any character with any profession and all skills can't join any team to do any thing, then that's a reason to changed, change, change and changed until it happens.

You can already.

There is nothing stopping anyone from forming groups to do UW with any of the professions.

Begin Rant:

UWSC groups are forming up teams based on team builds that work, some can do so at record times and they have been able to do so through continuous repetition, but not everyone can.

People have wanted this or that because they fail to look at professions for what they are different cards from a deck. Each card has a purpose.

A simple way to look at it is using a hammer when you need a screw driver, or a hatchet when you need a scalpel.

If all the SF whiners were to try to form up with each other and play with their "balanced" builds instead of constantly worrying how others play the game then we wouldn't have a new Nerf SF thread pop up every other day.

You guys broke a skill that made everyone equal when you screamed for the Ursan nerf and now your crying about another skill, I don't wonder if you guys are going to get your way I just wonder what skill you'll whine about next after you do.

I hope Anet learned a lesson after listening to you about Ursan Blessing whole guilds left the game because they were sick of the constant nerfs to things that people enjoy.

I've said it over and over again the only true balance I think you guys would be happy with is every damage skill does 1 damage and every healing skill does 1 healing everything else is removed form the game; all armor, off hands, and shields are removed form the game and all weapons are replaced with pointed sticks. Now every one is equal GW is finally balance oh wait that guy over there has a shiner stick than me throw dirt now that 's better.

MithranArkanere · Aug 20, 2009, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

That's an interesting concept and, strictly speaking, it does seem that an argument could be made that it is the ultimate balance. Then you end up with something like Final Fantasy Tactics, though, where there's little difference between characters but their skills... at which point, the player who doesn't have the right skill rather than the right class is still left out, and you lose a lot of variety.
Still, I guess it's an option (not for GW, obviously. Too late for that now that ursan is dead).

One thing I liked of Final Fantasy job system for Humans is the Mime.
One characters makes everything.
Become a warrior, learn everything a warrior can do, change profession.
While being of one profession, what you can equip becomes limited, and you have one unique ability.
And so on until you have learned everything.
And once you have learned everything, you can be the mime, and you unique ability becomes 'mimicry'.

The "all you can do I can do better" feel is soooo great.

I wish GW2 was like that, since you could make one character, change primary rofession, switch armor and ding, you became another profession, and a single character could make everything.
That would you would need only one character of each race to be able to try all possible combinations... provided you have enough time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chieftain Heavyhand

You can already.

There is nothing stopping anyone from forming groups to do UW with any of the professions.

Begin Rant:

UWSC groups are forming up teams based on team builds that work, some can do so at record times and they have been able to do so through continuous repetition, but not everyone can.

People have wanted this or that because they fail to look at professions for what they are different cards from a deck. Each card has a purpose.

A simple way to look at it is using a hammer when you need a screw driver, or a hatchet when you need a scalpel.

If all the SF whiners were to try to form up with each other and play with their "balanced" builds instead of constantly worrying how others play the game then we wouldn't have a new Nerf SF thread pop up every other day.

You guys broke a skill that made everyone equal when you screamed for the Ursan nerf and now your crying about another skill, I don't wonder if you guys are going to get your way I just wonder what skill you'll whine about next after you do.

I hope Anet learned a lesson after listening to you about Ursan Blessing whole guilds left the game because they were sick of the constant nerfs to things that people enjoy.

I've said it over and over again the only true balance I think you guys would be happy with is every damage skill does 1 damage and every healing skill does 1 healing everything else is removed form the game; all armor, off hands, and shields are removed form the game and all weapons are replaced with pointed sticks. Now every one is equal GW is finally balance oh wait that guy over there has a shiner stick than me throw dirt now that 's better.

Oh, yes, there is. I go to a certain oupost, with my Elementalist that has all skills of them game, maxed titles (except the allegiance ones and Vanguard) and wait to find a team to make something there...
And wait...
And wait...
And wait...
After the nth time you get a "Make yourself an assassin if you want to join" you know that something is wrong and must be fixed.

And is also kind of annoying when you manage to join a team, and everyone dies on you.

One good way to fix Speed Clears is making their work like some challenges and missions: Scheduled.
No matter how fast you kill something, the next wave of monsters or the next area won't open until X time has past.
And there you are, no more getting to the end chest in 6 minutes.

Barrage · Aug 20, 2009, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

One good way to fix Speed Clears is making their work like some challenges and missions: Scheduled.
No matter how fast you kill something, the next wave of monsters or the next area won't open until X time has past.
And there you are, no more getting to the end chest in 6 minutes.

I would actually like to reverse that (somewhat) and make the chest only spawn at 30 minutes, this would also create longer runs = less chest drops

.

Sarevok Thordin · Aug 20, 2009, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chieftain Heavyhand

I hope Anet learned a lesson after listening to you about Ursan Blessing whole guilds left the game because they were sick of the constant nerfs to things that people enjoy.

I don't enjoy noclipping through half-life

(that's a figure of speech btw)

Perfected Shadow · Aug 21, 2009, 02:48 AM // 02:48

If they're gonna break shadow form, I propose a change to it like:
For x seconds all hostile spells against you fail.

Increase the duration and make the upkeep possible at say 13 shadow arts or less. (with deadly paradox OR glyph of swiftness). And remove the 33% less damage.

AKB48 · Aug 21, 2009, 06:10 AM // 06:10

If Anet is gonna nerf UWSC, it could have done it ages ago. If Anet wouldn't nerf it then, why nerf it now when the price everything have already been brought down?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfected Shadow

If they're gonna break shadow form, I propose a change to it like:
For x seconds all hostile spells against you fail.

Increase the duration and make the upkeep possible at say 13 shadow arts or less. (with deadly paradox OR glyph of swiftness). And remove the 33% less damage.

Lol'd, you're funny.

Targren · Aug 21, 2009, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Oh, yes, there is. I go to a certain oupost, with my Elementalist that has all skills of them game, maxed titles (except the allegiance ones and Vanguard) and wait to find a team to make something there...
And wait...
And wait...
And wait...
After the nth time you get a "Make yourself an assassin if you want to join" you know that something is wrong and must be fixed.

I doubt that will change in that "certain outpost" if SF is nerfed. Outside of Z-Missions and SCs, that happens everywhere, regardless of class or whether there's a permasin farming it, because pugs are bad and people don't want to make them or join them. Nerfing SCs won't open the pugs up to random classes, it will just make there be even fewer pugs than there already are.

Eragon Zarroc · Aug 21, 2009, 07:17 AM // 07:17

It's always rumored about, hasn't happened yet. all good things must come to an end, but u never know when. it's no use worrying about when it may happen, no one truly knows. just abuse it as much as u can while it is here

Bryant Again · Aug 21, 2009, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

I don't think it's a derailment. It's about UWSC being nerfed in the name of "balance." I wasn't asking what you meant as a challenge. You just seem to be one of the few with a stance on the issue on either side who can make a logically consistent argument, so I'm sincerely interested in your POV on the matter. If you don't want to get into it, though, that's your prerogative.

I'd consider PvE to be "balanced" when a team of 8, of varying professions, is the preferred method of playing, clearing and farming. With just that one sentance alone, you can be sure of the amount of work that's going to be required to get to that stage.

Honestly, like I said in the Ursan thread, we're not going to get too far with nerfing just SF. It's just one thing that's near the top of the pile of what's wrong with PvE. Sure I'd like to see it nerfed - along with a thousand of other things - but if ANet isn't going to follow through with the rest, then what's the point?

Targren · Aug 21, 2009, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

I'd consider PvE to be "balanced" when a team of 8, of varying professions, is the preferred method of playing, clearing and farming. With just that one sentance alone, you can be sure of the amount of work that's going to be required to get to that stage.

I see what you mean. We have, what, 3 explorables and a dungeon like that now (Charr Homelands)? And nothing in them worth doing.

Ebony Shadowheart · Aug 21, 2009, 05:33 PM // 17:33

I'm late coming to this thread, and I don't feel like reading through the whole thing, so here's my thoughts.

I don't do speed clears, simply because I don't find them fun. If other people do, so be it. I do enjoy using SF to run various of my other characters to a town or outpost when I need to. So, nerfing SF into oblivion would annoy me. I'd get over it pretty quick, same as I do with any skill change, but that's beside the point.

Anet has stated that they do not have issues at this point with the speed clears/solo farming/running, but that they were keeping an eye on them. It was in the developer updates...back in June.

"Runs, Solo Farming, and Speed Clears

Players have long asked for our viewpoint on these ways of playing through content. For the most part, we think these are acceptable ways of playing Guild Wars but may occasionally take steps to increase their difficulty or even block a particular build. For instance, when it comes to Shadow Form, there is little concern about solo farming in most places; however, the speed clears of our most difficult content have become fast enough to warrant a more watchful eye. Over the coming months we will monitor these areas and, starting with Cry of Pain, make adjustments where necessary."

http://www.guildwars.com/gameplay/de...l_balances.php

As such, if they decide the speed clears are becoming too fast, they will do something about it. It's their judgment call.

I don't feel destroying a skill is the best option for doing that. They could easily adjust it so that the UW chest will not spawn unless they 1)complete all the quests AND 2)kill every foe in the area. Effectively turning it into a vanquish. This would slow down the clears, yet still make the builds viable. This should make most people happy - The skill is still usable, and the clears take longer. This should also encourage the use of balanced teams again as well, since there should be less emphasis on having to be a sin at that point. If you have to kill everything anyway the time to the chest should be closer to the same.

YunSooJin · Aug 21, 2009, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc

It's always rumored about, hasn't happened yet. all good things must come to an end, but u never know when. it's no use worrying about when it may happen, no one truly knows. just abuse it as much as u can while it is here

go go go abuse it. use and abuse!

Bryant Again · Aug 21, 2009, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

I see what you mean. We have, what, 3 explorables and a dungeon like that now (Charr Homelands)? And nothing in them worth doing.

Too bad there's still 98% of the game to go that's skewed in such a fashion.

This is largely in response to the way ANet has handled beasties. While the massive buffs that monsters have received make a bit of sense given their terrible AI, this doesn't really excuse the fact that there were quite a few touch-ups they could've done to their intelligence.

If there was a bit better framework in terms of their behavior this wouldn't really be needed, and the AI is something ANet essentially neglected since the first holy trinity run.

PvE could've been about building intelligent builds against a varying assortment of balanced monster mobs with team builds that actually posed a threat. The current state of PvE is nowhere near that, with people clogging their bars with PvE skills, their stats with consets, and the monsters with high levels, retard AI, and questionable builds.

Like I said earlier: the moment I see a group of monsters ignoring people with farming build - because why would you try to attack someone using one? - then I'll know the AI has taken a much more intelligent route.

That's what I wish I had right now in Guild Wars, far more intelligent and thus more in-depth gameplay - and who wouldn't want that?

drunk n angry · Aug 21, 2009, 06:44 PM // 18:44

why would you blame the economy on perma sins, if anything they have made items more affordable for those who cant perma or dont want to perma. so what is the problem here?

how do they make things more affordable? simple math i have the only ecto i could sell for millions of gold, oh wait a perma sin just did a uwsc and got 3 ecto dropped to him crap my ecto lost value.....

thus, making the economy of the game better for those of us who dont have stacks of ectos.

likewise for the high end chest items, if you had the only one you could charge ungodly for a obby edge, but if permas keep farming them they will eventually become more affordable for everyone. so i say GO PERMA'S GO, DO THE GW WORLD A FAVOR AND FARM THE SHIT OUT OF EVERYTHING FOR THE LOVE OF GOD FARM FARM FARM FARM FARM FARM FARM FARM.
drunk n angry is online now Report Post

Age · Aug 21, 2009, 09:27 PM // 21:27

I am not going to read this whole thread but if you ask me.I would like to see the UW go back the way it was before uwsc,sf sins and ursan and drop favour altogether it kind of old now.I would even eliminate the 1000 entry fee.

This is what I would do if I was on the GW Live team.

Z'HA'DUM · Aug 21, 2009, 09:28 PM // 21:28

As long as UWSC doesnt get smurfed...

Bryant Again · Aug 21, 2009, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by drunk n angry

why would you blame the economy on perma sins, if anything they have made items more affordable for those who cant perma or dont want to perma. so what is the problem here?

how do they make things more affordable? simple math i have the only ecto i could sell for millions of gold, oh wait a perma sin just did a uwsc and got 3 ecto dropped to him crap my ecto lost value.....

thus, making the economy of the game better for those of us who dont have stacks of ectos.

likewise for the high end chest items, if you had the only one you could charge ungodly for a obby edge, but if permas keep farming them they will eventually become more affordable for everyone. so i say GO PERMA'S GO, DO THE GW WORLD A FAVOR AND FARM THE SHIT OUT OF EVERYTHING FOR THE LOVE OF GOD FARM FARM FARM FARM FARM FARM FARM FARM.
drunk n angry is online now Report Post

It's an interesting thing, really.

One could argue that all players deserve a chance at any item, and that SF is helping towards that. It's not like their worth anything anyways; the only "necessities" are easily attainable: max weapons, armor, runes and upgrades.

On the other hand, if their rarity and prestige is the only thing going for them, shouldn't that be maintained? Like the above just stated, there's no rush for this gear, it's not required.

Of course, it is a lot easier to do, so that at least deserves some mention.

Argon · Aug 23, 2009, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Oh, yes, there is. I go to a certain oupost, with my Elementalist that has all skills of them game, maxed titles (except the allegiance ones and Vanguard) and wait to find a team to make something there...
And wait...
And wait...
And wait...
After the nth time you get a "Make yourself an assassin if you want to join" you know that something is wrong and must be fixed.

And is also kind of annoying when you manage to join a team, and everyone dies on you.

This is what i have the problem with, I am sitting in ToA right now, and all i see is sins, monks and necros, and thats all people want. How am i supposed to even think about getting fow armor for my ranger when over half the classes in the game cant even get a pug into uw/fow

gone · Aug 23, 2009, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argon

How am i supposed to even think about getting fow armor for my ranger when over half the classes in the game cant even get a pug into uw/fow

"starting trapper group for UW, invite self"

"ranger lf /RT to duo UW"

and of course

"famine ranger fow"

might be a start. if you are pugging the 'elite' areas know as uw/fow