Curse

Sha Noran · Aug 03, 2009, 01:57 AM // 01:57

I really find great joy and amusement reading through any post suggesting that Shadow Form should be outright removed from the game. Anyone who thinks that that might actually occur is clearly not aware of the fact that that skill was around for 2 years+ before the PvE only skills and consumables which broke the fundamentals of the game were added.

If ANet are sad about speed clearing, maybe they should have thought about the fact that the best teams were already completing all the super high end areas in 1-2 hour times before spawning a load of items and skills in their game that make all the balancing factors of all the battle encounters (recharge times, energy costs, energy availability, damage dealt, damage taken) completely fly out the window. How can they complain about people finishing things in a fraction of the time it used to take when they designed a lot of new equipment and skills specifically to make the players faster, more powerful and more damage resistant?

Lishy · Aug 03, 2009, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

They also said in the update where Cry of Pain was nerfed that they are working on removing the idea of speed clears as a whole and that nerfing cryway was step one.

CoP is actually better now in synergy with FoC since it degens a whole enemy mob and pressures heals. Great with Ether Nightmare.

Star Gazer · Aug 03, 2009, 02:33 AM // 02:33

because playing in pve should not be fun, amirite?

Bryant Again · Aug 03, 2009, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

because playing in pve should not be fun, amirite?

It should be about fun. It shouldn't be about broken skills and mechanics.

Arkantos · Aug 03, 2009, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

because playing in pve should not be fun, amirite?

So you didn't have fun before EotN?

Oh, ok.

Konig Des Todes · Aug 03, 2009, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

because playing in pve should not be fun, amirite?

Didn't know fun meant repeating the same exact thing to the t for hours or doing things which were not possible when the game first came out, which was when most of the older players had the most fun, not because of what they did, but because of the people.

Right, fun is farming.

Star Gazer · Aug 03, 2009, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

It should be about fun. It shouldn't be about broken skills and mechanics.

since when did broken skills and mechanics ruin your game play? just because people have fun in other ways than you does not mean that you should be crying like my 4 year old wanting to watch cartoons because i want to watch the news. sometimes you have to suck it up and do your own thing. God forbid someone else enjoys something you don't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

So you didn't have fun before EotN?

Oh, ok.

indeed, I have. I also used to have fun hanging out with my friends and working on cars. now I have a family and work for a living. both are fun, but fun changes from one thing to the next as life goes on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

Didn't know fun meant repeating the same exact thing to the t for hours or doing things which were not possible when the game first came out, which was when most of the older players had the most fun, not because of what they did, but because of the people.

Right, fun is farming.

again, your idea of fun may be something different. just because people are different and have different ideas of fun does not mean you imploy your spiteful and greedy playstyle on others.

speaking of which, i ask all of you, what do you guys do for fun in guild wars?

Konig Des Todes · Aug 03, 2009, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

since when did broken skills and mechanics ruin your game play?

Since when did broken skills and mechanics define fun like you implied in that post?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

I really find great joy and amusement reading through any post suggesting that Shadow Form should be outright removed from the game. Anyone who thinks that that might actually occur is clearly not aware of the fact that that skill was around for 2 years+ before the PvE only skills and consumables which broke the fundamentals of the game were added.

I do hope you do not include me in wanting SF removed. I enjoy tanking and running with SF. It is the solo-farming I hate, and the Speed Clears. And I also dislike many PvE-only skills (note:Not all) and the consets (other consumables are ok, especially holiday ones).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

again, your idea of fun may be something different. just because people are different and have different ideas of fun does not mean you imploy your spiteful and greedy playstyle on others.

speaking of which, i ask all of you, what do you guys do for fun in guild wars?

I don't think my playstyle is spiteful or greedy. What do I do for fun in GW? Quests I haven't done, work on titles, not virtual cash. But mostly, I research and discuss lore. Or I talk to friends from the game.

Though I don't play as actively as I used to, but this is bound to happen with everyone, those who grind to play are just making themselves addicted to the game (if they let it and do it constantly, note: Not all grinders will become addicted to the game, do not misunderstand me on this). Though, and I don't know if this is a good or bad thing, Guild wars, thus far, has been the last video game I actually bought. So I don't have "other games to go to" - I just occupy my free time with discussing GW lore or reading.

No one said I had to play GW to be active in GW.

Star Gazer · Aug 03, 2009, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

Since when did broken skills and mechanics define fun like you implied in that post?

much as the other players who fill 5+ districts in TOA 24/7 do. Maybe I do not have the time to make a 2+ hour run of UW or FoW. Does that mean that I should not be able to access these areas nor play them how I want?

Konig Des Todes · Aug 03, 2009, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

much as the other players who fill 5+ districts in TOA 24/7 do. Maybe I do not have the time to make a 2+ hour run of UW or FoW. Does that mean that I should not be able to access these areas nor play them how I want?

You misunderstand me. It's not that you find playing fun, or doing things quickly fun, it's that you rely on the things added or broken in some shape or form in order to enjoy the game the most. It is at this point of playstyle that I usually force myself into taking at least a week, though sometimes a month, break.

Star Gazer · Aug 03, 2009, 03:21 AM // 03:21

and I have. trust me. I have taken 3 breaks from this game...1 year, 5 months, and recently, 3 months after doing UW over and over and over again. and I do not rely on anything to be broken to have fun. i have been playing this game since BWE and have seen things go up and go down. fun was back in the good old days (6 months before factions release). now, things have progressed. for the better or worse, i cannot decide, but the thing that makes me sick about people arguing over SF or Ursan, is the fact that people just cannot let others have fun. spitefulness and hate are the primary reasons why gw is dying (and that whole age thing).

Again, your playstyle has no effect on me, nor should mine have on you. ectos are staying at 4.5-5k at merch. great, no fluctiations there....so what else could be the problem with others speed clearing uw? there has to be some underlying reason as to why you hate SF. PvP NEEDS to have balance, otherwise the game becomes the gimmick-fest that we have now. PvE does NOT. People argue this until they are blue in the face...but why? You are killing monsters. Were the entire Final Fantasy series always balanced? No. Nor did they need to be. You are killing things that just respawn with every zone. Give me another reason please.

Reverend Dr · Aug 03, 2009, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Who cares, right now nothing is really worth anything. Any zone to farm isn't worth farming. Unless something new is put in and a massive change made to trade/crafting/loot, changing the overefficient farming builds really won't make a bit of difference.

Konig Des Todes · Aug 03, 2009, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

there has to be some underlying reason as to why you hate SF. PvP NEEDS to have balance, otherwise the game becomes the gimmick-fest that we have now. PvE does NOT. People argue this until they are blue in the face...but why? You are killing monsters.

As you said yourself, others' playstyles. Some people may like blasting through enemies, but GW never appeared to me to be a game like DOOM or Diablo II. Especially seeing how the game has been about "skill not time" - which then means minimal grind and farming. Thus the idea of farming and grind goes against what the game was intended to be about. That is my issue, not some "hate SF" thing, but that "broken" (though to some they wouldn't be broken) mechanic in the game is going against the initial (and, thanks to the Live Team, reinstated) goal/intention of the game's mechanic and playstyle.

In other words, I am not arguing for my playstyle, but for the game's. If I want to blast through countless enemies, I load up Quake or DOOM. if I want a puzzle-based game, I load up Myst. If I want a game which is meant to be balanced, even in PvE, even when fighting "monsters" - I load up Guild Wars.

The point here is that not every game is meant to shape itself around everyone's playstyle. And due to such, some playstyles will clash with others' in a single game, such as GW, when said game wavers in the intended playstyle of the game. Thus, we then get this, arguments on opinion between those who prefer the original playstyle of the game and of those who prefer the unintended playstyle of the game which snuck in at one point or another.

Star Gazer · Aug 03, 2009, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

post

well said. i totally agree on the skill > time scenario, as this is what the game was intended to be based on. i loved it and bought it due to this. but as time has gone on, people have done different things...sure, slowly making my way from area to area was fun...on the first 10 characters..now it is just..boring.

I agree that UWSC is VERY VERY VERY boring. My last hiatus from Guild Wars was due to the fact that I did it like all the time. But just because I find it boring, does not mean I will go against others who want to do it; they have no affect on me and thus I will let them do the most boring thing in the game.

its all about respecting people's opinion. here on guru, there seems to be a lack of that. if everyone just respected other's opinion, things would be good. cheers mate

fenix · Aug 03, 2009, 04:24 AM // 04:24

As mentioned by a few people, SF isn't the REAL problem here. Sure, you can have godmode without trying, but you shouldn't be able to kill EVERYTHING with it.

Fix zones, fix monsters, fix cons, fix PvE skills. After that, SF will just be a cool utility for running, but will be useless for anything more.

That being said, ANet will probably just zerg SF again.

Star Gazer · Aug 03, 2009, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

Fix zones, fix monsters, fix cons, fix PvE skills. After that, SF will just be a cool utility for running, but will be useless for anything more.

so tell me why. give me one valid reason other than "its not supposed to be that way!" Is it due to ego? Is it due to bragging rights? Is it to "put down" the players who are inexperienced in this game?

I hate to burst your (and everyone else who is against SF and PvE "God Mode" in general) bubble, but the truth is, noone cares. Noone cares about your titles. Noone cares about your troubles and how you made it through the hard way. Noone cares about the playstyle you like, or the team builds you have. Why? Because it is PvE. PvE is about the person playing it at that moment, and noone else. As such, noone should care about other peoples stories or how they got there. Noone wants to hear it on the game, just as noone wants to hear about it in real life.

Keep in mind, I am not refering "you" to just you fenix, as I am just using the term loosely. This is to everyone who wants it nerfed (and in general wants anything nerfed in PvE). If people were not so caught up in thinking for themselves, this game and the pve community in general would be a lot more "pleasant" to deal with.

Now saying this, I do not UWSC any longer. It has been about 3-4 months or so since I have touched my sin and used him for SF. So I am not an advocate for it, as I (personally) think it is the most boring thing on this planet. I also do not need stuff to be easy: I have 28 titles, and aquired them ALL prior to the ursan age and the age of common consumables (barring candy canes for my vanquishes). I did not need stuff to be easy for me. However, I also do not see the problem in the next person getting their 29th or 30th title the easy way. Why? Because I. do. not. care. As long as they enjoyed the game, that is all that matters.

Flame away, as I know some will. Just keep in mind that I do not care what others think and I will continue playing my game the way I chose to play it.

Game on.

Lishy · Aug 03, 2009, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Personally, I love uwsc. But something like this just isn't right to keep in the game.
If keg farm was nerfed, I predict this will as well.

fenix · Aug 03, 2009, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

so tell me why. give me one valid reason other than "its not supposed to be that way!" Is it due to ego? Is it due to bragging rights? Is it to "put down" the players who are inexperienced in this game?

I hate to burst your (and everyone else who is against SF and PvE "God Mode" in general) bubble, but the truth is, noone cares. Noone cares about your titles. Noone cares about your troubles and how you made it through the hard way. Noone cares about the playstyle you like, or the team builds you have. Why? Because it is PvE. PvE is about the person playing it at that moment, and noone else. As such, noone should care about other peoples stories or how they got there. Noone wants to hear it on the game, just as noone wants to hear about it in real life.

Keep in mind, I am not refering "you" to just you fenix, as I am just using the term loosely. This is to everyone who wants it nerfed (and in general wants anything nerfed in PvE). If people were not so caught up in thinking for themselves, this game and the pve community in general would be a lot more "pleasant" to deal with.

Now saying this, I do not UWSC any longer. It has been about 3-4 months or so since I have touched my sin and used him for SF. So I am not an advocate for it, as I (personally) think it is the most boring thing on this planet. I also do not need stuff to be easy: I have 28 titles, and aquired them ALL prior to the ursan age and the age of common consumables (barring candy canes for my vanquishes). I did not need stuff to be easy for me. However, I also do not see the problem in the next person getting their 29th or 30th title the easy way. Why? Because I. do. not. care. As long as they enjoyed the game, that is all that matters.

Flame away, as I know some will. Just keep in mind that I do not care what others think and I will continue playing my game the way I chose to play it.

Game on.

I appreciate your viewpoint, trust me I do. I got Legendary Cartographer before TexMod, so feel proud of my effort doing it before there was easy/cheatmode.

The difference with SF, is that it changes the way the game was intended on being played. ANet never intended on UW being cleared in 10 minutes with a team, or 31 with 2 players. ANet never intended on DoA being cleared in 40 minutes. Or Urgoz in 20, or Deep in 12.

These areas were meant to be elite. Those times are fine, if you are doing a NM dungeon, or some missions. They aren't fine if they are the elite HARD MODE zones.

That's the difference. Although it mightn't affect others (arguably does, as fast farms = more rare skins = lower price = awful economy), it's the fact that the zones weren't meant to be so easy.

ANet know this, that's why they're looking at fixing it.

Lishy · Aug 03, 2009, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Just one thing though.
GW economy doesn't exist.
If item prices drop, it's the player who started the trend. And it's also the players who started the trend that ectos= money

Anet played no part in it.
So really, GW economy is nonexistent since it is all done by setting trends, all with an infinite source of money.

Bryant Again · Aug 03, 2009, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

since when did broken skills and mechanics ruin your game play?

It loses foundation, meaning, and integrity. It's pretty discouraging to put so much effort into learning the game when you only need to get just a few easy to acquire tools that void all that knowledge. Sure you could learn so much "for fun", but shouldn't all that effort be rewarded?

And on the dev side, isn't that just a waste of resources? Why put so much effort into designing the skills, their functionality, their pictures, etc. when you can just make an "I WIIIIIIN" skill and save time and money? (The answer: because that's a bad game.)

This isn't to say that I don't like to indulge in mindless fun from time to time, but that's not what I should be pushed and encouraged to do. All players should be encouraged to learn more about the game, to get better at that. Halting their progress is just bad design.