Curse

Breakfast Mc Rit · Nov 22, 2009, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Ehh, getting friends together in one place to run balanced in UW for 2+ hours is almost too daunting when all it takes is one mistake to get the group punted back to ToA. It'd be great if Anet could find a way let us keep completed quests in NM so that guilds running with curious inexperienced members could nibble away at the content.

IronSheik · Nov 22, 2009, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Don't know about you guys.

But I don't like spending 1:51 hours in a pug to get a q13 accursed icon and a 6k glob.

By the time it takes me to get a scythe drop via failing pugs 10 times before a win and a total for 10 hours per chest for I don't know, a million chests, I could farm the money for 100 scythes.

Reformed · Nov 22, 2009, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

Tell me this in 1 month. PUGs will be dead.

This update is just delaying the inevitable, SF is still at large.

You are chasing a phantom target buddy. Mobway gets spanked, sure they clear UW easily enough but not Dhuum. PuGs will never show up as a viable alternative, they got passed right over into the next big thing. The irony being that that next big thing involves Eles running Ether Renewal.

Joe Fierce · Nov 22, 2009, 07:58 AM // 07:58

He's cool, not too hard, it greatly disappoints me that it is harder to get to him than it is to kill him, servants of grenth is absolutely ridiculous to try to hero.

Gli · Nov 22, 2009, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Shame they put him at the end of a mission I lost all interest in years ago. I'll never even attempt to see him.

Tramp · Nov 22, 2009, 09:07 AM // 09:07

I dont do the new 30 minute A/D speed clears, and I dont do 3 hour pugs that stand a good chance of fail. So this is is my perfect solution: I am going to let all the perma A/D speed clearing groups beat the snot out of Dhuum for me, and watch tons of the minis drop (anets compensation to the poor sins for having to use an underpowered skill like SF). All the minis will cause the price to drop by 50-75% of what it is today over the next several weeks. Then I will buy one, zoom in on it so the mini appears very large like the real Dhuum. Then I will start running around while my mini Dhuum chases me and I can yell things like HELP! and HEAL ME YOU STUPID NOOB MONK... OMG YOU SUCK! (pretty much all the expletives and colorful phrases people yell at me when I join a party as healer will work.) It will be considerably less time, and just as thrilling as actually fighting the real Dhuum.

Joe Fierce · Nov 22, 2009, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tramp

I dont do the new 30 minute A/D speed clears, and I dont do 3 hour pugs that stand a good chance of fail. So this is is my perfect solution: I am going to let all the perma A/D speed clearing groups beat the snot out of Dhuum for me, and watch tons of the minis drop (anets compensation to the poor sins for having to use an underpowered skill like SF). All the minis will cause the price to drop by 50-75% of what it is today over the next several weeks. Then I will buy one, zoom in on it so the mini appears very large like the real Dhuum. Then I will start running around while my mini Dhuum chases me and I can yell things like HELP! and HEAL ME YOU STUPID NOOB MONK... OMG YOU SUCK! (pretty much all the expletives and colorful phrases people yell at me when I join a party as healer will work.) It will be considerably less time, and just as thrilling as actually fighting the real Dhuum.

Or you could just go with friends and guild members =P

Malician · Nov 22, 2009, 10:42 AM // 10:42

How is it possible to get to Dhuum and fail him? Most of UW is pretty easy, but Four Horsemen is a rush. I can't imagine passing it and then failing Dhuum! Balanced group with no SF in HM - Dhuum (in HM) he was a pushover.

Joe Fierce · Nov 22, 2009, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malician

How is it possible to get to Dhuum and fail him? Most of UW is pretty easy, but Four Horsemen is a rush. I can't imagine passing it and then failing Dhuum! Balanced group with no SF in HM - Dhuum (in HM) he was a pushover.

Compared to servants of grenth and 4H, yes, yes he really is.

Longasc · Nov 22, 2009, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Dhuum is an example that their new live team designers have not learnt a thing from GW's previous game design failures.

The general crux of the Underworld is that you have only one try at most quests or this Dhuum battle. Besides that it has become a pushover after many years of skill additions and changes. Now guess why EOTN dungeons do not boot the whole party upon failure. They take a lot of time, the Underworld also takes a lot of time, but it remains an unforgiving mission style "all dead -> try again" area. That might be fine and dandy for most "missions", but is it really appropriate for the Underworld?

The other issue is that you can use a "balanced" party to attack Dhuum of course, and risk a wipe after you cleared the whole UW.

You could also be "uncool" and just take Gimmick builds that totally PWN both the Underworld AND Dhuum. ANet does not have rampant gimmicks under control - god knows how they can justify their stance on this. Just bring back the Ursans, about the same crap as Shadowform.
Making battles much much harder if you don't play the system to the max just encourges people to do it in no other way.

If they want Dhuum to be a hard boss, they will have to find better ways to make him hard than to say "LOL you wasted almost an hour" if you fail. People will always, and should always, adapt to the situation at hand. And if they do, just use SF and a 600/Smite duo, the "hard" boss is doable for everyone who manages to keep SF up.

People who like to play GW for sure don't do it because GW has the most outstanding raid/boss battle content, tbh. Rather the opposite, they show how problematic they seem to be in the GW system, and that the result is mostly some Mallyx/Dhuum crap that gets beaten to crap by gimmick builds.

Joe Fierce · Nov 22, 2009, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

Dhuum is an example that their new live team designers have not learnt a thing from GW's previous game design failures.

The general crux of the Underworld is that you have only one try at most quests or this Dhuum battle. Besides that it has become a pushover after many years of skill additions and changes. Now guess why EOTN dungeons do not boot the whole party upon failure. They take a lot of time, the Underworld also takes a lot of time, but it remains an unforgiving mission style "all dead -> try again" area. That might be fine and dandy for most "missions", but is it really appropriate for the Underworld?

The other issue is that you can use a "balanced" party to attack Dhuum of course, and risk a wipe after you cleared the whole UW.

You could also be "uncool" and just take Gimmick builds that totally PWN both the Underworld AND Dhuum. ANet does not have rampant gimmicks under control - god knows how they can justify their stance on this. Just bring back the Ursans, about the same crap as Shadowform.
Making battles much much harder if you don't play the system to the max just encourges people to do it in no other way.

If they want Dhuum to be a hard boss, they will have to find better ways to make him hard than to say "LOL you wasted almost an hour" if you fail. People will always, and should always, adapt to the situation at hand. And if they do, just use SF and a 600/Smite duo, the "hard" boss is doable for everyone who manages to keep SF up.

People who like to play GW for sure don't do it because GW has the most outstanding raid/boss battle content, tbh. Rather the opposite, they show how problematic they seem to be in the GW system, and that the result is mostly some Mallyx/Dhuum crap that gets beaten to crap by gimmick builds.

Dungeons are not elite missions/ areas, UW is.

Longasc · Nov 22, 2009, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Fierce

Dungeons are not elite missions/ areas, UW is.

No, the UW is a farmspot. Always was. Lots of wasted potential if all that counts is ectos that can be farmed best in early parts.

And farming and not much else to do is what ruins this game. Nothing else to do?

I rather moved on.

Test Me · Nov 22, 2009, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

Dhuum is an example that their new live team designers have not learnt a thing from GW's previous game design failures.

Precisely what I believe as well.
- one NPC death -> fail
- one team member afk -> not even able to enter the battle with Dhuum if not fail
- one death at Dhuum -> you need res scrolls
- Dhuum gives tons of DP -> you need whatever cons to remove DP
- given the two above you'd better keep the inventory opened, GW doesn't have a skillbar where you can drag "potions"... well maybe it's about time they implemented since it's required in order to play
- death in any place, even after all UW -> start it all allover again = 2 or 3 wasted hours

This is grind. Period.

If they wanted proof of how GW is "grind free". Long live the gimmick, long live SF, long live the consumables. GW original design values are dead.

Arduin · Nov 22, 2009, 12:19 PM // 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

No, the UW is a farmspot. Always was. Lots of wasted potential if all that counts is ectos that can be farmed best in early parts.

And farming and not much else to do is what ruins this game. Nothing else to do?

I rather moved on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

Don't know about you guys.

But I don't like spending 1:51 hours in a pug to get a q13 accursed icon and a 6k glob.

By the time it takes me to get a scythe drop via failing pugs 10 times before a win and a total for 10 hours per chest for I don't know, a million chests, I could farm the money for 100 scythes.

UW, other elite area's, heck, all of GW isn't being played for fun anymore. A careful calculation about energy spent in comparison to expected rewards are made, and favor goes out to SC.

Farming is all there is for most people that have been playing GW for a long time, and that's the message new people are getting.

It's applaudable the Live Team made a new (and in my opinion beastly) bossfight, but people already are aiming for Dhuum's Soul Reaper, Mini Smite's and Dhuum's. Dhuum himself only being a hindrance in getting to the endchest.

brainiac · Nov 22, 2009, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Dhuum is just insane with the amount of minions he summons. They just destroy the spirits and there's not a heck of a lot you can do about it.

Im not arguing that it wasnt a good idea to put Dhuum in, I think he's a good boss, just tough, but what they should have done is have the normal UW chest spawn after 10/10 quests, and then if you beat Dhuum, you get to open Dhuum's Chest for 2-3 bonus items. This would stop 2-3 hours of wasted time if you can't beat him, you'll at least have gotten something out of it.

Vulturion · Nov 22, 2009, 12:43 PM // 12:43

I applaud the addition (and that there are still additions), but I'm unlikely to ever see him myself: I (and my connection latency) cannot handle SF builds well, and clearing the Underworld in a balanced team with my brother or *shudder*a PuG is too big a time commitment for the presumably-1% chance of getting a miniature I can add to my HoM.

Don't so much mind content being added that is time consuming or random - but time consuming and random isn't much of a motivator.

Would have been nice if the final Steward quest teleported directly to Dhuum inside a cleared Underworld, minus the monument credit and the Ecto & key from the chest - just give the new fight and a shot at the 3 new items from the chest afterwards.

Reflect · Nov 22, 2009, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Fierce

Dungeons are not elite missions/ areas, UW is.

I herd there was a place called Slaver's Exile.

Xenomortis · Nov 22, 2009, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by brainiac

Dhuum is just insane with the amount of minions he summons. They just destroy the spirits and there's not a heck of a lot you can do about it.

Kill the minions? They're not that tough.
His summons should be a priority to kill - they can die.

My biggest complaint is the fact Dhuum near necessitates DP removal cons. When we did it in HM we had two people die and return as spirits (one about a 1/4 of the way through, one right towards the end) and they couldn't really remove much of the DP.
That and it's a long endurance battle at the end of a long series of quests, where mistakes are not easily forgiven.

Arduin · Nov 22, 2009, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vulturion

I (and my connection latency) cannot handle SF builds well, and clearing the Underworld in a balanced team with my brother or *shudder*a PuG is too big a time commitment for the presumably-1% chance of getting a miniature I can add to my HoM..

So don't you want to kill Dhuum for the sense of achievement it gives? Are you really only there for the rewards?

Maybe it's because Anet made the rewards tangible (titles, HoM, Endchests) why people are only interested in the loot, but before Factions many were trying to do all UW quests, simply because it was possible to.

Does nobody collect all 120 stars in Super Mario anymore, just because it's fun and an achievement?

Strife17 · Nov 22, 2009, 01:12 PM // 13:12

So far

I have done 5 mobway pugs as mobber/ua/bondslave/fac . All failed with pugs.
1 pug even had vent/candy/res scrolls/ all that shit but lure vengeful towards reaper

I have done 5~ balanced pugs
with 1 A/E
1 100b off tank
1 Spiritspam
1 nuker
1 Roj
1 SS
2 healers
All failed

Why? because quests have gotten harder + skeletons and most important reason of all. insufficient knowledge of the quests.
The only thing these pugs can is watch youtube and copy cat pathetic simple areas like T1/T2/MT

keep in mind that each attempt took about 1- 2hours.

I know all quests, but it's not possible to explain every single quest to your whole party in a balanced group. because someone always messes up.

Think I'm going to give up on Dhuum, because it's only possible to do 4-6/10 quests with pugs
until there is some piss easy build every noob can play. otherwise I don't see it possible to do UW with pugs that doesn't have a clue what they are doing.