Curse

coil · Nov 24, 2009, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

I have a sin.

Gimmicky sins disgust me. I would never wish for my beloved ranger to be degraded to their level.

This point is poorly thought out and self-contradictory so I'm going to save myself the trouble of providing a counterpoint.

Most people aren't QQing, they're presenting logical arguments that people like you tune out by plugging your ears and screaming "QQQQQQQQ!" Also, I don't fall into categories a-d so you clearly missed something.

Your poor punctuation, poor grammar, and use of words like "wut" and "peeps" do a fantastic job of masking your true intelligence. As for your point, using PvX wiki doesn't make you smart.

this line of thought is completely wrong and i'll tell you why. you CAN use your ranger. you can use ANY profession you want. to cry that you can't shows your own lack of comprehension of the game. no one is telling you to run a sin OR ANY other profession.

the fact of the matter is that one build will arise which is superior to all others for completing the objectives in the fastest amount of time. this is an inherent fact with ANY area. and guess what? people who want the drops from the end chest don't want to spend hours getting 1 chest when they could get 2, 3, or even 4 chests in that same time by using a more efficient team build.

so who's the smart one? the one using the most currently efficient build (at the moment) and actually getting his end chest?

or the one crying he can't get in a group and not willing to change professions because he's too morally superior?

seriously, it's a game meant for enjoyment of playstyle. the way others play really has no bearing on how you should/do play.

and to those arguing that they want to "balance" pve. what does this even mean? it's not pvp where each team is on level ground and skill should be the determining factor. its 8 (or 12) players with varying levels of skill vs 100's of lvl 25-40 monsters with special skills. that's inherently not balanced.

oh but you argue that god mode isn't fair....

go tank in doa and tell me it's godmode. go into uw and solo the whole area and tell me you have godmode. SF isn't godmode (rending aura, sig of disenchant, conditions, aoe says hi) and those that argue it is either have no understanding of the skill and elite areas or are so biased against it they just cry foul for giggles.

Tenebrae · Nov 24, 2009, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by coil

this line of thought is completely wrong and i'll tell you why. you CAN use your ranger. you can use ANY profession you want. to cry that you can't shows your own lack of comprehension of the game. no one is telling you to run a sin OR ANY other profession.

Oh , so you are basically saying "if you dont like it dont use it" and "use whatever you want , how come ppl using SF does affect your game play ?" .... and after all that BS you claim someone`s line of thought is completely wrong. Great .... irony rox huh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coil

seriously, it's a game meant for enjoyment of playstyle. the way others play really has no bearing on how you should/do play.

You know what is a person that does run 1 zone/mission/elite zone in 5h when he knows the way to do it in 2h ? ..... yeah i guess you know the answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coil

and to those arguing that they want to "balance" pve. what does this even mean? it's not pvp where each team is on level ground and skill should be the determining factor. its 8 (or 12) players with varying levels of skill vs 100's of lvl 25-40 monsters with special skills. that's inherently not balanced.

Level 25-40 ? w000t ? . Yeah "is not balance so im forced to use the most broken game mechanics to have any chance" . Oh cmon , do you think we dont have a brain ?.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coil

oh but you argue that god mode isn't fair....

Never. God mode on multiplayer games is NEVER fair , no matter what you say or do , thats a true fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coil

go tank in doa and tell me it's godmode. go into uw and solo the whole area and tell me you have godmode. SF isn't godmode (rending aura, sig of disenchant, conditions, aoe says hi) and those that argue it is either have no understanding of the skill and elite areas or are so biased against it they just cry foul for giggles.

HAHAHAHAH conditions ? from what dude ? from a lot of spells and skills that are untargeted ?. Yeah they are about what , 5% of the game ? maybe 8% ?.
You want the "SF isnt god mode" cookie ? you can have it but that wont save you from the skill update.
What a joke , a SF abuser telling someone that has no "understanding of the skill and elite areas" .... i smell fear for the next update ,high amounts of fear hahaha.

pumpkin pie · Nov 24, 2009, 10:02 AM // 10:02

The fact remain, no one has a good logical reason as to why SF is bad. non!

QueenofDeath · Nov 24, 2009, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bug John

I'd really like to see you playing high level pve without protective spirit...

And then coming here to QQ because Anet nerfed it too much.

PS is a perfectly balanced skill, and you fail so much you could be Izzy's personal assistant.

Come watch me then as I never use any protective monks or characters. There's other ways to play this game besides pvx or wiki builds.

You fail because you wear horse blinders and can only see one direction. Where as I test other things that could possibly work and do. Show's who's the better player...ME!

)

Just.nl · Nov 24, 2009, 12:09 PM // 12:09

Im happy that UWSC is nerfed now. The UnderWorld is supposed to be an "Elite"-area. When there comes build that can farm The UnderWorld. It gets boring.

Why should you Speed-Clear actually? Yesh, i can get rich in a short time. But who cares? In MY opinion you dont reserve respect if you are rich and you are just a lifeless SCer.

Why are all the UWSC sins crying now? They can still farm enough! You need to be happy that the made UWSC impossible. What if they changed ShadowForm? That SC's are the past? Would you throw your pc out of your window then?

So good job A-Net ;-) Now is UW harder for players that are trying to do it without SC. So its more fun

*This is my opinion*

qvtkc · Nov 24, 2009, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Those options really are not valid.
PvE is supposed to be "fun" rather than "balanced" and we have 10 classes and 8 party slots, which means at least 2 guys will always be left out.
Now I am not saying his arguments are valid, the problem is that yours aren't.

Yes it is. PvE is basically a coop game with a social, worldwide lobby function. It should be obvious to anyone that coop games need balance - hell, even single-player games need balance to be fun.

Reflect · Nov 24, 2009, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

The fact remain, no one has a good logical reason as to why SF is bad. non!

rly?
Well SF gives the ability of !NOOBS! to beat !ELITE! areas in !HARD! mode.
ye..!NOOBS! shall not be able to finish an !ELITE! area, thats why it is !ELITE!

Lopezus · Nov 24, 2009, 01:52 PM // 13:52

i must say that my experience with UW is limited, i farmed a little, did spider run service and most i was close to completing it was clearing all areas and doing all quest except 4H with guildmate and heroes, but it was way back, before UWSC, HM ,pve skills and consumables. Since that i havn't really dabbed with it till these Halloween quests, so now i went to see the changes and didn't like them a bit, personally i would rather see it reverted to what i remember with all these new pve stuff gone.

reaper with no name · Nov 24, 2009, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Those options really are not valid.
PvE is supposed to be "fun" rather than "balanced" and we have 10 classes and 8 party slots, which means at least 2 guys will always be left out.
Now I am not saying his arguments are valid, the problem is that yours aren't.

"Useful" does not mean "the best combination will always be one of each class". It means that when you're putting together a team, there's actually a real reason for each class.

Let's use an example. Let's say that there are 2 melee professions (X and Y) and only one slot left for melee in a party.

Currently:
"...Yeah, definitely X. There's no reason to ever use Y when X is so obviously better."

If there is a balance:
"Hm...Well, X can do Z better...But then again, Y can do W better..."

See the difference? Either way, X and Y can't both get in, but when there is balance, each one has their advantages and disadvantages, and you can make a decent argument for allowing either one into the party.

Also, balance is implicitly assumed as one of the mechanisms to ensure "fun" in any game. That's why games strive for balance. That doesn't mean that it's always true, but it is an assumption that all games have.

QueenofDeath · Nov 24, 2009, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reflect

rly?
Well SF gives the ability of !NOOBS! to beat !ELITE! areas in !HARD! mode.
ye..!NOOBS! shall not be able to finish an !ELITE! area, thats why it is !ELITE!

That's the best LOGICAL reason I've read yet. Noobs shouldn't be able to play with the elites. Noobs should remain broke and poor and QQing all day long on Guru instead of in the game. (sorry Guru but they'll have to have some place to go after the nerfing of SF)

)

Arduin · Nov 24, 2009, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

The fact remain, no one has a good logical reason as to why SF is bad. non!

My reasoning would encompass the ability of Shadow Form to bypass 95% of encountered monsters (guesstimate) without being negatively influenced by those monsters.

Also, obviously Anet originally had some intention of SF to be a quick in quick out skill, because it has a severe downside when not maintained: the drop to ~50 hp after 45 secs. This downside never occurs because player are able to perma the SF.

Kotetsu Rain · Nov 24, 2009, 05:12 PM // 17:12

I for one think everyone would stop QQing if there was God Mode for every profession. <.<

DreamWind · Nov 24, 2009, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Those options really are not valid.
PvE is supposed to be "fun" rather than "balanced" and we have 10 classes and 8 party slots, which means at least 2 guys will always be left out.
Now I am not saying his arguments are valid, the problem is that yours aren't.

I'm disappointed in you upier. PvE is supposed to be about fun rather than balance? How about fun AND balance? It goes back to the age old question...should we allow a 10 billion damage skill in the game if people find it fun? We are playing a multiplayer game for reference...

Ugh · Nov 24, 2009, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by coil

this line of thought is completely wrong and i'll tell you why. you CAN use your ranger. you can use ANY profession you want. to cry that you can't shows your own lack of comprehension of the game. no one is telling you to run a sin OR ANY other profession.

I never said that I couldn't. Go back, read my post, and read what I'm responding to.

Quote:

so who's the smart one? the one using the most currently efficient build (at the moment) and actually getting his end chest?
or the one crying he can't get in a group and not willing to change professions because he's too morally superior?

I do use these efficient builds (FoWSC) and I never cried that I couldn't get into a group. You are responding to my post, right?

Quote:

seriously, it's a game meant for enjoyment of playstyle. the way others play really has no bearing on how you should/do play.

It does. I've had no trouble finding groups for UW since UWSC was nerfed. In the old SF thread(s), people said that would never happen.

Quote:

and to those arguing that they want to "balance" pve. what does this even mean?

Link

Quote:

it's not pvp where each team is on level ground and skill should be the determining factor.

Skill should ALWAYS be the determining factor.

Quote:

its 8 (or 12) players with varying levels of skill vs 100's of lvl 25-40 monsters with special skills. that's inherently not balanced.

Removal of tanking spells like SF and OF followed by places like UW and DoA being made a bit more PUG-friendly would be good.

Quote:

go tank in doa and tell me it's godmode. go into uw and solo the whole area and tell me you have godmode. SF isn't godmode (rending aura, sig of disenchant, conditions, aoe says hi) and those that argue it is either have no understanding of the skill and elite areas or are so biased against it they just cry foul for giggles.

Skills that target through SF are fairly rare and some aren't much of a threat. Most of the conditions that can be applied to a perma are done so through traps. Avoid them. As for AoE, move away from it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumkin pie

The fact remain, no one has a good logical reason as to why SF is bad. non!

I assume you didn't do too well on the Critical Reading portion of the SATs...

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenofDeath

That's the best LOGICAL reason I've read yet. Noobs shouldn't be able to play with the elites.

Yes, actually it is quite logical. Inexperienced players should not be playing with experienced players. That's not elitist, that's logical.
[QUOTE]Noobs should remain broke and poor and QQing all day long on Guru instead of in the game.QUOTE]
When I was a "noob", I played through the campaigns, experimented with low-end PvP, and expanded my knowledge of the game. That's what inexperienced players should be doing. No one should be clearing elite areas in HM before they develop a deep understanding of the game.

Quote:

I for one think everyone would stop QQing if there was God Mode for every profession. <.<

No.

Cuilan · Nov 24, 2009, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by coil

no one is telling you to run a sin OR ANY other profession.

My mesmer can do Mobway, SoOSC, and FoWSC?

Feathermoore Rep · Nov 24, 2009, 06:55 PM // 18:55

The only way to lose SF in doa is to melee attack the dervish (why would you do that?), rending sweep has to have a hex so someone has to be fukkin up and be close to you, chillblains which requires someone being really really close to you thats not the other perma.. you have to try to screw up being a perma in doa.

And also you dont have to run a perma to beat doa....its just ten times faster, but less skill.

But UW, you pretty much need a tank of some sorta to beat it. Its not hard. In fact most of the quests are pretty easy once you know what they are. But with the skeles, old methods don't work. Now instead of balls-ing through with balanced you need a tank to hold off a side on several quests, because skeles pump out way to much everything ignoring dmg. Aggro more than 2 with a group in balanced and you could potentially have a problem. Esp. when you can't determine how much you aggro in several of the quests.

Reformed · Nov 24, 2009, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

My mesmer can do Mobway, SoOSC, and FoWSC?

Meta team builds for Elites have always been restrictive on profession and build selection. Outside of a brief day in the sun with Echo-CoP Mesmers do not get a lot of love in high end PvE. A long list of other, better, options exist to fill party slots which are at a premium. You should have at least a handful of other characters as options to re-roll with, ideally something in the holy trinity, if you are serious about doing high end content.

Fay Vert · Nov 24, 2009, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

The fact remain, no one has a good logical reason as to why SF is bad. non!

Only true if your read through your "fingers in ears - la, la, la I'm not listening" filter.

You could try reading the posts that don't support your view of the universe.

If you think imba economy isn't a factor, then lets roll back the loot nerf (actually, yes please). If you think that free play is important then lets support even chances to get into a team regardless of profession. If you supportt he concept of skill>time then where does broken form fit in?

God mode is just no game mode. Why don't ANet just implement cheat codes? Would that be better for you?

w00t! · Nov 24, 2009, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

The fact remain, no one has a good logical reason as to why SF is bad. non!

Because it has an overall negative effect on the Guild Wars player base.

I've said it before. Solo farm all you want and create as much personal wealth as you like. It does not detract from my ability to enjoy Guild Wars. But imba skills like SF does (as did Ursan) in that, in order to play in particular areas, you are "forced" into specific (and mindless) builds.

There you go.

reaper with no name · Nov 24, 2009, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

The fact remain, no one has a good logical reason as to why SF is bad. non!

Because there are 10 professions in this game.

As of right now, only 1 of them is worth playing. All the others are worthless by comparison.

This is bad.