Curse

Mireles · Nov 20, 2009, 11:39 PM // 23:39

I'm pretty disappointed if this is the extent that Anet will address the overpowered issue of shadow form. There patch work to try to prevent speed clearing underworld is shoddy at best. For one it only stuck like half an hour on clear times.... and for less "motivated" players, moved the problem to fow.

Great story line, bad fix.

If a balanced library of skills and professions for the game is your goal Anet... your going to have to disappoint those people that like to use God mode in games to negate the challenge. Make perma sins less invulnerable.

My ultimate question is, does anyone have any facts that might hint if a shadow form nurf is imminent by the end of the year...? and if so please provide a link to that literature.

[Edit]
Just looking for some info, not opinions.... if some admin knows for a fact that none currently exists please close this thread.

Zahr Dalsk · Nov 20, 2009, 11:43 PM // 23:43

ArenaNet apparently missed this when they were testing the update, but Shadow Form is not only still viable with Dhuum in the Underworld; it's actually still the most effective way to beat him.

Just thought I'd bring this to their attention.

Joe Fierce · Nov 20, 2009, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Csb.

Did you ever stop to think that they were only intending upon slowing down shadow form in uw and not obliterating it?

The community for this game is friggin retarded "oh this game is stupid, farming and elites are too hard, the rich get richer, I thought this was a casual game, boohoo" then someone comes along with a gimmick that simplifies everything and it's: "OMFG THIS SHIZ IS EAZ! OMFG THIS IS BORKEN FIX IT IT TOO EASY GIMMICK BAD!"

Lishy · Nov 20, 2009, 11:52 PM // 23:52

I agree with Joe Fierce.

None of you ever consider game design when you cry.

That said, if SF is nerfed, they need to change other things to attract the more casual player like others and yours truly. Did some of the elitists here ever stop to think not everyone has a guild willing to put together UW balanced?
"Elite" area doesn't mean to discriminate other players either.

Zahr Dalsk · Nov 20, 2009, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

Did some of the elitists here ever stop to think not everyone has a guild willing to put together UW balanced?

Y'know if they just allowed us to take 4 more heroes, it wouldn't matter?

Lishy · Nov 20, 2009, 11:56 PM // 23:56

It would matter, Zahr Dalsk. UW is broken in design and requires 100% co-ordination otherwise an important npc dies and you're booted.

When you have a quest that throws invincible aatxes at you, what the hell are you supposed to do with H/H? While it is possible, I would still not say it's pleasantly possible.

Joe Fierce · Nov 21, 2009, 12:02 AM // 00:02

I've got an idea guys, let's all cry about problems we created!!! That's right, you, yeah you, the community, you created this problem, it's not a matter of imbalance, it's a matter of the willingness and free thought to put together something more effective or alluring to other play styles, your laziness and willingness to complain about imbalance is the failing point, had you begun to come up with new ways to do uw/elites months ago then sf would have something to contend with when it comes to groups forming in in toa.

MithranArkanere · Nov 21, 2009, 12:16 AM // 00:16

What I get when I read they responses, is that they treat Shadow Form as a niche farming skill, that works in some areas.

But it is not. It works too effectively, in too many areas and not for all professions.

As it is, if it's not maintained, it's undesirable for its huge downside that leaves you open for a one-hit kill. And if it's maintained, it's overused for the immunity it gives.

The only solution is a complete functionality change. That's all that is left.

BlueNovember · Nov 21, 2009, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

It would matter, Zahr Dalsk. UW is broken in design and requires 100% co-ordination otherwise an important npc dies and you're booted.

When you have a quest that throws invincible aatxes at you, what the hell are you supposed to do with H/H? While it is possible, I would still not say it's pleasantly possible.

Hah. How exactly did co-ordination factor when the players split and go their separate ways?

The Aatxes hardly require multiple people even for a "pleasant" victory. If you use the reapers it's trivial (and slow). Still viable to prot, pull, run past.

Tenebrae · Nov 21, 2009, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Never thought that Dhuum was going to be there to stop SF ..... maybe just to slow UWSC and yes , it did. Worth enough update ? hell no , this update is a - instead of a + imo.

Bob Slydell · Nov 21, 2009, 12:41 AM // 00:41

And who from ANet stated that this was the combat for SF?

MithranArkanere · Nov 21, 2009, 12:44 AM // 00:44

The only solution for Shadow Form is a functionality change.

I'll try to repeat it here and there until people start dreaming about it and notice it eventually too.

Improvavel · Nov 21, 2009, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Who cares about invincible aataxes? You tell your Mo/x or x/Mo to put Aegis up and go kill the keeper of souls and they go poof - and that aggro clause disappeared at around Halloween time (not sure if has since then returned).

But yeah, unfortunately this is another step on the wrong direction - adding more overpowered skills (even if mob ones) is just plain crap.

They need to remove all the overpowered skills, limit consumables and environmental effects (including HM inherent mob effects and mob levels) and just make all skills much less efficient.

WoH, for example, is one of the most efficient healing skills on the game, healing for 200+. Now imagine it was still one of the most efficient skills on the game, but instead only healed for 100?

And then do that for every frigging skill.

You can bet mobs wouldn't need skills like Flurry of Splinters to be an annoyance.

Every time they add a skill like Flurry of Splinters, an environmental effect or a boss like Mallyx and Dhuum, they are just moving the game into gimmickness.

Eragon Zarroc · Nov 21, 2009, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Maybe anet's intention wasn't to prevent SF at all in UW eh? ever think of that? maybe they were just trying to make us happy with an all new uber awesome end boss? and all people can do is bitch about SF. QQ. *sigh*

MagmaRed · Nov 21, 2009, 01:22 AM // 01:22

It was ASSUMED that Anet was working on a SF nerf with the changes to UW. They never said they were. They have said they were looking into SF and that SF was on their to-do list, but they never said what, how, or when they would nerf it. In fact, I haven't even seen them say they WOULD nerf it. I've only seen them say they were looking into it and that it was on their list of things to do. What that 'to do' is has not been said.

Wuhy · Nov 21, 2009, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

Did some of the elitists here ever stop to think not everyone has a guild willing to put together UW balanced?
"Elite" area doesn't mean to discriminate other players either.

1. if sf had been nerfed then ppl wouldn't need a guild to do uw balanced 2. why does everyone think that every casual player should do HM doa/uw/fow/whatever?

w00t! · Nov 21, 2009, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

That said, if SF is nerfed, they need to change other things to attract the more casual player like others and yours truly. Did some of the elitists here ever stop to think not everyone has a guild willing to put together UW balanced?
"Elite" area doesn't mean to discriminate other players either.

No, Elite areas were clearly designed so that anyone with a link to PvXwiki could download a template and beat them in 15 minutes. I am continually baffled by those who want everything in a game to be dumbed down in the name of so-called fairness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

(players)...treat Shadow Form as a niche farming skill, that works in some areas.

But it is not. It works too effectively, in too many areas and not for all professions.

(snip)
The only solution is a complete functionality change. That's all that is left.

QFT. There is clear precedent for functionality changes in Elite Skills. SF is overdue for skill balancing.

Life Bringing · Nov 21, 2009, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Tbh, it seems that anet's intentions were not to NERF SF, but to slow down UWSC. Permas can still be used to clear uw, but now instead of 8 mins, it is taking around 40 with a good team. This is much more reasonable, and is actually quite a good fix. The skeles of dhuum slow down UWSC, as well as forcing players into a main team, similar to fow.

Regina Buenaobra · Nov 21, 2009, 02:17 AM // 02:17

I just posted this on the wiki.
I would like to take the time to address a couple of questions that came up after the latest scheduled game update.

The re-design of the Underworld was intended as a way to add fun new content to the game while preventing ridiculously fast speed clears up the Underworld. (For example, the first Shadow Form group to beat Dhuum took 85 minutes rather than the 7 minutes it used to take similar groups to clear UW.)

This was not an attempt to address all of the concerns about Shadow Form Assassins. That will happen in the next major skill update, which will include big changes to Shadow Form and may also include changes to other prominent farming skills.

Work on this next update is currently in progress, but it looks like it will not happen this month. We are aiming for not only “tweaking numbers” of certain skills, we are looking into making changes that will require extensive testing and implementation time. We intend to heavily involve the Test Krewe in testing and evaluating the changes before they go live. Unfortunately it took longer than expected to get the Test Krewe off the ground.

I hope this sheds a little bit of light on what’s happening and where we are going.

Mr. Undisclosed · Nov 21, 2009, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

I just posted this on the wiki.
I would like to take the time to address a couple of questions that came up after the latest scheduled game update.

The re-design of the Underworld was intended as a way to add fun new content to the game while preventing ridiculously fast speed clears up the Underworld. (For example, the first Shadow Form group to beat Dhuum took 85 minutes rather than the 7 minutes it used to take similar groups to clear UW.)

This was not an attempt to address all of the concerns about Shadow Form Assassins. That will happen in the next major skill update, which will include big changes to Shadow Form and may also include changes to other prominent farming skills.

Work on this next update is currently in progress, but it looks like it will not happen this month. We are aiming for not only “tweaking numbers” of certain skills, we are looking into making changes that will require extensive testing and implementation time. We intend to heavily involve the Test Krewe in testing and evaluating the changes before they go live. Unfortunately it took longer than expected to get the Test Krewe off the ground.

I hope this sheds a little bit of light on what’s happening and where we are going.

So...you make uw really hard for balanced then nerf SF, are you high?