Curse

idril isildra · Nov 15, 2009, 04:44 PM // 16:44

On topic, i'm having no Lag issues, (netherlands, euro server)

Rocky Raccoon · Nov 15, 2009, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Why is it that I don't see any tracert's, any pathping's, any pingplotter graphs in this thread? Sure, it's easy to blame a-net whenever there's lag, but has any single one of the complainers here actually tried to verify that the problem is really with a-net and not your ISP or an intermediate node?

Of course they haven't as it is much easier just to blame ANET. East coast US no problems.

Morgoth the dark · Nov 15, 2009, 04:52 PM // 16:52

if you call 100 mb/s bad internet, then yea i have bad internet. And i still cant even login to my account and if i miracilously do, then i get lagspiked and cant move for a minute or even more. Sucks, really.

Kumu Honua · Nov 15, 2009, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Chthon is right,it must be our fault,all of us with different isp and and different locations and seeing as the issue doesn't affect any of our other internet programs (msn,vent,TS,browser,irc etc etc),it must be our fault.

If a node on the path to anet servers is exploding in the european areas, and the connection paths through said node (Especially if it's a major backbone) you can EASILY see problems with guild wars and still have vent/msn/whatever have zero issues. It's all about the path the data is taking (And the packet sizes/quantity.)

Blaming the end destination for issues is really only possible if EVERYONE is having those issues. Since there are many who are reporting no issues from both the US and Europe, I would surmise that the Anet servers are in fact not at fault and it's a node somewhere between said servers and the european nodes.

Rocky Raccoon · Nov 15, 2009, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenex Xclame

But I dont see how we can do anything to solve it?So Anet as a business has the resposiblity to get solution for us.

I am sorry but this is a very dumb statement.

Missmelady · Nov 15, 2009, 05:35 PM // 17:35

noBy the way it is possible to lag out of guildwars while not lagging on vent or teamspeak due to an isp problem. Not really sure how to put it but your isp can limit your bandwith on certain ports meaning that if alot of people happen to say be using a port to play a mmo they can limit it so that the whole isp doesnt exp lag. Also has anyone checked to see what the port number for aion is and whether or not its the same as guildwars.

Introverted Dimensions · Nov 15, 2009, 05:39 PM // 17:39

I haven't had any issues with latency at all and even when I do, it's bearable or it just doesn't bother me.

Little O B S I · Nov 15, 2009, 06:00 PM // 18:00

No lag. Europe.

tealspikes · Nov 15, 2009, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Plenty of lag and d/c'ing to the point where I stopping playing regularly. Eastern USA.

Chthon · Nov 15, 2009, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

[I]f everyone with different ISP's who have NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER with ANYTHING on the internet other than Guild Wars is experiencing lags and d/c's, how can anyone come to the conclusion: well it must be your ISP, because you live in Europe and you guys probably have crappy internet over there, even though it's much better than in most places in the world including the US.

Because they understand internet infrastructure and the concept of routing better than you do.

This is instructive:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumu Honua

If a node on the path to anet servers is exploding in the european areas, and the connection paths through said node (Especially if it's a major backbone) you can EASILY see problems with guild wars and still have vent/msn/whatever have zero issues. It's all about the path the data is taking (And the packet sizes/quantity.)

From the data gathered so far, I can only make 3 conclusions:

There is insufficient data to determine if the lag problems are due to
- (a) a problem on a-net's servers, or
- (b) a problem with an intermediate node between servers and some users, or
- (c) a problem with users' ISP's (connectivity problem or deliberate packet shaping nonsense).
Euros, if we take this thread as typical, are damned lazy and would rather just complain about the lag than run simple diagnostics that would gather useful data for solving the problem.
Euros really hate being called euros.

Meridon · Nov 15, 2009, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

I am sorry but this is a very dumb statement.

Saying something is a very dumb statement and not giving a reason why makes for a dumb statement.

Either way, a summary:

It is obvious many people, mostly in Western Europe have been experiencing incredibly high lag spikes.

Reported symptoms:

People affected all have a lag spike at the same time, often resulting in disconnects / error 007s, leading to conclude that it is not the end user's fault.
People affected have all been playing in different parts of the game during the time of said lag spikes. It appears that the following factors didn't influent the occurence of these lag spikes: District (Europe/US/International), chapter that is played, In an outpost or in an instance. This leads to the conclusion that it is not a bug-related game error, but a network-related error.
People affected do not share the same ISP, leading to conclude that it's not the ISP who's the cause of all this.
People affected experienced no lag or network issues with other software at the same time, including MSN, Ventrilo, and Teamspeak, leading to conclude that it is a Guild Wars-related issue.

With so many people reporting that they are unaffected, it is likely that the problem is not at ArenaNET's end, and more likely to be in the middle. The question is, who is responsible for this and who can fix it?

The answer is difficult. Blaming ArenaNET is wrong, yet it is not wrong to at least expect some service from them in regard to keeping their game network in operation. Of course, every single affected player could phone up their ISP and get into an eternal bureaucratic tug-of war with all parties involved, including ISP, network host, Anet, etcetera, etcetera, but that would be incredibly inefficient, and would likely solve nothing.
A much more realistic approach would be for ArenaNET/NCsoft/whatever to get in contact with network operators and solve this routing issue. While the Anet servers are not the ones causing the problem, this doesn't mean that Anet is the key party in solving the problem, and therefore should take it's responsibility in this matter. So far, they haven't done so, which is what pisses people off.

Players/Regions who are not affected can consider themselves lucky. Anyone blaming the end-user for this issue, or expecting him to solve the problem himself, is rather ignorant, as it is clear that players affected can do little to help solve the situation. Yes, players can to a network path trace with the Guild Wars diagnostic tool, and then continue post it here, but that would expose all of our home PC IP's, and that's not what we want, do we?

All we can do now is pray that *someone* who has the power to do *something*, will actually do *something*.

Also, stop bashing Europeans please. It's childish and immature, and decreases your credibility to zero, regardless of how much unproven understanding of internet infrastructure and the concept of routing you have.

Chthon · Nov 15, 2009, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meridon

Reported symptoms:

People affected all have a lag spike at the same time, often resulting in disconnects / error 007s, leading to conclude that it is not the end user's fault.
People affected have all been playing in different parts of the game during the time of said lag spikes. It appears that the following factors didn't influent the occurence of these lag spikes: District (Europe/US/International), chapter that is played, In an outpost or in an instance. This leads to the conclusion that it is not a bug-related game error, but a network-related error.
People affected do not share the same ISP, leading to conclude that it's not the ISP who's the cause of all this.
People affected experienced no lag or network issues with other software at the same time, including MSN, Ventrilo, and Teamspeak, leading to conclude that it is a Guild Wars-related issue.

With so many people reporting that they are unaffected, it is likely that the problem is not at ArenaNET's end, and more likely to be in the middle.

I agree this is the most likely diagnosis.

Quote:

Yes, players can to a network path trace with the Guild Wars diagnostic tool, and then continue post it here, but that would expose all of our home PC IP's, and that's not what we want, do we?

1. Yes, blank the first 2 IP addresses on any diagnostic before posting.

2. No one ever wants to admit the problem is on their end. Piles of diagnostics force the responsible party to acknowledge that the problem is theirs. If it's a-net's servers, they'll be more likely to take the problem seriously if you present them with a pile of diagnostics instead of wild accusations. If it's an intermediate node, and you want a-net to do something about it, then give them some fricking ammunition to back up their claims so that the carry doesn't just blow them off when they complain.

Kumu Honua · Nov 15, 2009, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meridon

People affected experienced no lag or network issues with other software at the same time, including MSN, Ventrilo, and Teamspeak, leading to conclude that it is a Guild Wars-related issue.

You cannot conclude that the problems are a Guild Wars issue based on the status of other software.

Your computer has a path to each destination. The path to Guild Wars servers and the path to your local Ventrilo server are not necessarily the same.

It is quite possible to have Ventrilo working at peak performance while you cannot connect to Guild Wars.

For example:

Anet Servers -- Node 1 -- Node 2 -- Node 3 -- You

Ventrilo Servers - Node 2 -- Node 3 -- You

In the above scenario you have two paths. The difference between the two is that your computer must not send data through node 1 to get to and from the Ventrilo servers, but it does in order to get to the Guild Wars servers.

If there is a problem at node 1, then Guild wars will be inaccessible while Ventrilo works perfectly.

dr love · Nov 15, 2009, 08:53 PM // 20:53

i haven't had a problem yet.
< Canada

Bob Slydell · Nov 15, 2009, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Seriously, it isn't anets fault you people get lag, it's your ISP and your ISP decides how much bandwidth to throttle between you and the Anet servers.

ISP's also sit at the edge of the mesh of routers called the internet..where there could also be problems within that mesh of routers.

Anets servers are as fast as they can be, so sorry that one link in between not managed by anet is causing you trouble.

So STFU about anet failing because it's not their fault.

People all over America have been having problems too...but others don't. And not EVERYONE in Europe I'm sure are having problems. It's called ISP's.

I live down in South NJ in the US about 2,300 Miles from their HQ, and I haven't gotten lag, because my ISP is actually good.

So it can only mean one thing..... ISP's.

The Drunkard · Nov 15, 2009, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Yesterday was odd for me, couldn't get on any of my chars before beingerr7ed around noon. Nothing out of the ordinary today though.

<American

Copenhagen Master · Nov 15, 2009, 09:21 PM // 21:21

We had lots of people in my guild based in Europe yesterday having a had time logging in, and then staying connected. So I am pretty sure they ALL don't have crappy ISP, maybe something was up in Europe or maybe ANET who knows. As for me I had no problem at all......(American server)

Enon · Nov 15, 2009, 09:25 PM // 21:25

You're right Chris. Different ISPs scattered across (Western) Europe, who aren't related what so ever and in general provide more than decent service which isn't causing lag on a daily basis, all decided to lower their bandwidth for the fun of it.

And for those asking earlier about tracing network paths - I ran a diagnostic test both during the lag and random DCs and afterwards and neither showed anything out of the ordinary as far as I can tell.

majikmajikmajik · Nov 15, 2009, 09:43 PM // 21:43

well myself and people that i play and talk to werent experiancing any lag nor was i seeing any "bitching" in game so either it WAS a few(note a few can be a few persons, or a few hundred, try to keep a broad perpective), or an isolated ammount.

Stark Dynasty · Nov 15, 2009, 09:51 PM // 21:51

< UK player.
there's a node in Frankfurt that's always the issue when i have problems. blame them.