Curse

Dyeane · Nov 02, 2009, 08:47 PM // 20:47

The entries are graded on multiple fronts.

Melding of GW and halloween is important, but you can meld them perfectly and still have a poor entry. It is important to note that the golem took a helluva lot of effort to make and that it was executed beautifully. The presentation is excellent.

If you can argue that a golem is not a creative meld, than neither are any of the mad king related entries because A.net designated him as related to Halloween. It doesn't take creativity to decide to do a Mad King entry. The creativity lies in execution.

smorggie · Nov 02, 2009, 11:01 PM // 23:01

First and foremost, congratulations to all of the winners

It's too bad that there are these issues with plagiarism, it's very disappointing. I fell that the cube entry should be disqualified as well, simply because it was clearly stated on the website that the template came from that it was not to be used for a contest.
Tzu before the contest I had mentioned on cosplay.com that I liked your costume so clearly I still really like it ^^
The cardboard Fleshie I think was really cool. I can understand how it's hard to see, maybe it would have been easier for people to visualize if there was a reference picture or if it was painted or something but if you take your time looking at it, it's clear that it is an amazing piece of art. It seems like the pictures were taken of the sculpture on a bed, in which case it's huge! I'm very impressed. I guess they could have stuck a pumpkin next to it to make it more directly related to Guild Wars Halloween, but I don't feel like it's that big of a deal.
The Mad King picture with the glowing hands and evil bunny rabbits in the foreground was also very awesome, I like the creepy whimsical vibe from it.
And finally the tattoo! I think it's very geeky lol but I have seen far geekier tattoos, and to people that aren't Guild Wars fans they'll just think it's some badass pumpkin dude so it's cool in that regard too.
To address the issue of costumes being the grand prize winners for the past 4 years, I was thinking that they should probably have an entry that wasn't a costume win this year just to keep people from feeling that the contest was biased towards costumes. From the way that I understand it, judging is done by people at the office voting for their favorites, and I feel that it's easy for costumes to make a big visual impact on a first impression. However I'm clearly biased since I was one of the Halloween contest winners a few years ago with my entry being a costume :P and I love cosplay

Qing Guang · Nov 02, 2009, 11:32 PM // 23:32

In defense of the Golem, which at first I didn't particularly get, it's both a) kinda scary (unless you're me) and b) it's undead. Undead, like lycanthropes and demons, are especially associated with Halloween, more so than with other monsters (who really connects, say, minotaurs or hydra with Halloween? Not me). Hence, it is Halloween-related. It's not like there's no precedent - remember, the first ever win in this contest was that little Bone Fiend statue.

I'm just waiting for the new winners to be announced. And I certainly hope they are plural, because that cube guy ought to be disqualified as well.

Kha · Nov 03, 2009, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyeane

The entries are graded on multiple fronts.

Melding of GW and halloween is important, but you can meld them perfectly and still have a poor entry. It is important to note that the golem took a helluva lot of effort to make and that it was executed beautifully. The presentation is excellent.

If you can argue that a golem is not a creative meld, than neither are any of the mad king related entries because A.net designated him as related to Halloween. It doesn't take creativity to decide to do a Mad King entry. The creativity lies in execution.

Yes, an entry can be the perfect melding of GW and Halloween and still be poor - obviously those didn't win. And no one here is saying anything bad about the actual golem entry (that I've noticed) - everyone, including myself, seem to be in agreement that it is very well-crafted, creative and has a lot of effort into it. If this was just a Guild Wars art contest, I would be quite shocked if it didn't win and probably on here complaining that it wasn't the grand prize. But there are some of us that don't feel it is a melding of GW and Halloween, which is one of the requirements for the contest. Is it the only one that doesn't meet this? No, but since it is second place it is probably the easiest to notice/discuss.

Creativity hasn't been argued here so I don't know why you are bringing it up. It doesn't take creativity to do a Mad King entry, I agree, but it takes creativity to do something other than just a drawing of the Mad King. The entry with the bunnies blends Halloween and GW together other than it just having the Mad King, and the same with the one where he is standing in his Halloweenish lair with a picture of Livia on the table. They both have creativity in creating a scene. The only one that doesn't do more than that is the tattoo, which many have problems with winning for the fact that it would seem the entry is from the person who got the tattoo, not did it.

Someone said putting a pumpkin next to the golem would've helped, but that's not true. People are defending that it could be a decoration but then why isn't it being used as said decoration? The point is that it doesn't have a Halloween feel to it. Just saying that it's an undead or it's scary makes it Halloween is a pretty weak argument in my honest opinion. That would be like putting a pumpkin next to it and saying that it was Halloween themed. One would probably understand the Halloween reference, though minor and maybe more Autumn than Halloween, but is it really a melding? No.

Edited to add: Btw, I preferred your siege turtle over the one that actually won. Meant to say that earlier in the thread but got distracted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qing Guang

In defense of the Golem, which at first I didn't particularly get, it's both a) kinda scary (unless you're me) and b) it's undead. Undead, like lycanthropes and demons, are especially associated with Halloween, more so than with other monsters (who really connects, say, minotaurs or hydra with Halloween? Not me). Hence, it is Halloween-related. It's not like there's no precedent - remember, the first ever win in this contest was that little Bone Fiend statue.

Standing on a carved pumpkin.

Dyeane · Nov 03, 2009, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kha

Creativity hasn't been argued here so I don't know why you are bringing it up.

I apologize if I wasn't being clear! The whole idea of my post was to explain that the piece won because of how highly it ranked in other areas, and to point out in relation to the halloween melding comments that the Mad King entries didn't exactly do it much better in that respect.

I don't really have a position myself on what should or shouldn't have won.. I haven't seen all the entries. But I can definitely understand why most of the pieces did win.

Quote:

Btw, I preferred your siege turtle over the one that actually won. Meant to say that earlier in the thread but got distracted.

Thanks

I do wish I'd run into the other turtle creator so I could tip my virtual hat to them.

My only real complaint is that there are not more places. Especially when rewarding a virtual item.

Aba · Nov 03, 2009, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Quote:

Yes, an entry can be the perfect melding of GW and Halloween and still be poor - obviously those didn't win. And no one here is saying anything bad about the actual golem entry (that I've noticed) - everyone, including myself, seem to be in agreement that it is very well-crafted, creative and has a lot of effort into it. If this was just a Guild Wars art contest, I would be quite shocked if it didn't win and probably on here complaining that it wasn't the grand prize. But there are some of us that don't feel it is a melding of GW and Halloween, which is one of the requirements for the contest. Is it the only one that doesn't meet this? No, but since it is second place it is probably the easiest to notice/discuss.

I guess im the only one seeing the huge epic fail on anet for picking the golem as a win.this isnt a basic ol art contest.Golem has nothing to do with halloween.
and to people saying it does cause its undead/demon and those are halloween themed blah blah blah...
In that thinking I can send in a sculpture of a dead sword or maybe a Rit spirit and itll be halloween themed?

All in all, most people who won deserved it, but others I dunno what anet was thinking.

dr love · Nov 03, 2009, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scar ra

In that thinking I can send in a sculpture of a dead sword or maybe a Rit spirit and itll be halloween themed?

sure why not? you don't have to have a pumpkin to make it halloween themed.

Qing Guang · Nov 03, 2009, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scar ra

this isnt a art contest.

*glances at thread/contest title*

I lol'ed.

Also... Hey Regina! So, um, y'all had a fine excuse to not announce the winners this weekend, seein' as the disqualification happened at the end of the day on Friday and all... but, er, it's 'bout 6 here in PST - ought to be 'bout the end of the work day, don'cha think? Yet that cube thief ain't even DQ'ed yet. And if y'all thought this out pretty well, ought to have had a few runners-up ready to fill in spots. So, it should have taken 'bout half an hour to get all this sorted, na? Guess somebody musta just forgotten to change the site, ya?

Aba · Nov 03, 2009, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Quote:

*glances at thread/contest title*

I lol'ed.

Ok you know dang well what I ment.

Supposed to be halloween theme'd not just something guildwars with a slap of glue on it.
Otherwise my little brother would have won grand prize.

He also went all out and did a wintersday one just in case.

Inde · Nov 03, 2009, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Update from Regina's Wiki Journal:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina

Halloween Art Contest Issues - 2 November 2009

We have been made aware of issues related to a couple of the Halloween Art Contest entries. While every effort is made to check each entry to ensure that the artwork submitted was not plagiarized, the internet is a big place, and we are not able to check every single corner. Thank you to community members who contacted us to make us aware of those issues. Entries that the team judges to be plagiarized work will be removed over the next couple of days. One submission was affected so far. When we are confident that there are no further issues with contest entries that are displayed on the web site, we will then start the process of awarding prizes to the next highest ranking creator(s). This whole process may take at least a week. Thank you for your patience and understanding in this.

Aba · Nov 03, 2009, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Thanx Inde good to see that they are infact on top of the issue about the cube thingy and any others that were plagiarized.
Again though Congrats to all the people who Won and the people who are going to win, after the disqualifications.
Especailly to all who are getting hated on for there entrys, even the ones I think suck

lol

Minami · Nov 03, 2009, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Also a quote from Regina on her talk page :

Quote:

Thanks for making us aware of the potential issue with the papercraft submission. This information was emailed to us over the weekend as well. We are looking into it at the moment. We have taken down the other entry, following a tip-off from a player in one of the forums.
We're going to see if any other issues pop up with the other entries before making final decisions on the next highest ranking entries on the list.
In future at contests, maybe we should require everyone to submit a "making-of" video in addition to their final submission. ;-)

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_...rtwork_Contest

Wonder if it's an indication that she says "entries" not "entry".

Narcissia · Nov 03, 2009, 08:45 AM // 08:45

while i do agree that costume making is art, i do think that it's unfortunate that you have to make a costume in order to have any hopes of winning first place. some of the other pieces submitted through the years that weren't costumes have been simply amazing and could've held first place. im sure they also took the same amount of effort/time as the costumes.

i think categories definitely would've been a solution to that problem, it's a shame they didn't do that from the beginning.

Fril Estelin · Nov 03, 2009, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Anet should not call this a "contest" to highlight the fact that they're trying to make that a fun event. I mean look at the Nolani thread, Tzu's Halloween Workshop (she's not only winning, she's giving away by organising it, like other winners who participated), no one goes crazy about what this "contest" should or should not be. Art is a passionate topic, but we should only keep the "positive passion" and forget the negative one.

Cosplay won consistently because they've captured the imagination of the Anet people voting on all the artwork submitted. It wasn't in the rules (which are subjective anyway, no point in dissecting them ad nauseam) because it's not voluntary. I'm convinced that Anet's art team know well art and the overall judgement of the company is fair. It's not a "bias", it just happens to be that way statistically.

When the "contest" just started, I agreed with KiyaKoreena that they should have kept a big number of winners, even if prizes were less interesting at the bottom. It seems to be a popular event, thus give away a few pumpkins to some great artwork! (well Tzu did exactly that!)

Stop The Storm · Nov 03, 2009, 12:35 PM // 12:35

no disrespect to the winner, but i still cant grasp how fancy dress is conceived as an "art" form.

im still lolling at the tattoo guy tbh.

some decent entries, grats.

Jennerator · Nov 03, 2009, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurald Galain

I think you misunderstood what i meant. It could be seen as GW themed decoration for your house. If you draw/paint whatever a monster from GW it wouldn't fit the Halloween-themed thing imo. But if it was made as decoration for your house (like to put into your front yard or your party room) then i could consider any monster as a Halloween themed as monsters are usually put outside during that time.

I disagree 100%. A drawing or painting hung on the wall is a decoration and therefore would fit your definition of being Halloween related even if it was a picture of dogs playing poker. Therefore, I could take a pile of mud, throw it on the wall, call it an Ooze rendition, and therefore it would decorate my wall and qualify as a Halloween piece. Bulloney.

The fact is that a golem sculpture has ZERO to do with the rules of the contest which is clearly a tie in between Halloween and Guild Wars. Shove a pumpkin on the golem's horn and it would fit. The golem should never have won a spot and the judges failed to uphold their own rules.

The tattoo is also a CLEAR 100% violation of the rules. The tattoo artist made the picture, the submitter was just a canvas. Think of it in very simple terms: if i sketch a rough drawing of the Jora costume, or Koreenas golems light, or the awesome Mad King flaming picture #10, and then pay that person $100 or $300 to make it for me, and then submit the work as my own. Will you people complain I did the work and deserve the prize??? Because if the rules mean nothing (which clearly they do not) then you can pay other people to make an art project for you. If the tattoo is allowed to win, then next year my lack of artistic skills in drawing or painting are not going to matter because I will just hire an artist on the net to make me an original work and I will just do the design. Clearly the judges do not have a problem with other people doing the actual art. The tattoo should never in a million years been allowed past the rules committee, but the precendent is now set. Screw it, have a professional win your mini.

I would also go as far as to say the first pumpkin carving should never have made it either. It is just copying trademarked logos which shows zero originality and violates the rules. The second pumpkin was much more original.

Some of the other entries are bad and some are great, but at least they do not violate rules which should once again leave a bad taste in the mouth of anyone who entered (assuming they even got your entry which is another question on my mind). 20 winners, 2 already disqualified, and 2 more clearly violate the rules, and one more is questionable (pumpkin logos). Batting 80% for a measly 20 prizes does not feel good to me.

The contest should have clearly defined categories. There should have been more prizes. And the rules should have been followed by the judges.

Reformed · Nov 03, 2009, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Did anyone honestly expect that when Anet puts up an lolarmbraces mini there wouldn't at least be a handful of cheaters coming to the table? I mean sure, this should have been curbed by the judges but no one has internet omniscience. More to the point I bet this thread would be dead and buried by now if 20 people didn't just hit the Guild Wars lotto.

HawkofStorms · Nov 03, 2009, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Kha, Scar... shut up.

A Halloween decoration doesn't necessarily have to be plastered with jackolaterns and colored orange and still be a Halloween decoration. By your logic, the charr Halloween mask that appears in game... isn't a Halloween mask.

Halloween has a lot of traditions based on death mythology that can be played with in a submission, not just black and orange colored cookies. Anyone complaining about the "rules being violated" clearly just has a very narrow perception of what Halloween means.

The great thing is, art is subjective. The rules are written overly broad enough that there was no violation for the golem entry. As someone who actually understands legalese, there is no violation.

Edit: Reformed, doubt it, halloween art contest threads from years past (a few of which which also had fraudulant entries that the community called out) were also heavily visted.

AngelWJedi · Nov 03, 2009, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Kha, Scar... shut up.

A Halloween decoration doesn't necessarily have to be plastered with jackolaterns and colored orange and still be a Halloween decoration. By your logic, the charr Halloween mask that appears in game... isn't a Halloween mask.

Halloween has a lot of traditions based on death mythology that can be played with in a submission, not just black and orange colored cookies. Anyone complaining about the "rules being violated" clearly just has a very narrow perception of what Halloween means.

The great thing is, art is subjective. The rules are written overly broad enough that there was no violation for the golem entry. As someone who actually understands legalese, there is no violation.

Edit: Reformed, doubt it, halloween art contest threads from years past (a few of which which also had fraudulant entries that the community called out) were also heavily visted.

i can see both sides of the issue. the golem thought well made doesnt look like a halloween decoration. if it was colored and other odds/ends added to it then i would have agreed it should have won. costumes techinaclly arent/are halloween because i dont remember the true people who made the ritural wore costumes. i believe it was someone else. and with the fruad items that won i would think they could have had someone check into the work to prove they truely made it. but this is all my opnion.

Kha · Nov 03, 2009, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Kha, Scar... shut up.

A Halloween decoration doesn't necessarily have to be plastered with jackolaterns and colored orange and still be a Halloween decoration. By your logic, the charr Halloween mask that appears in game... isn't a Halloween mask.

LOL I love when people get tired of saying the same thing over and over and just have to tell the opposition to shut up cause they can't make a real argument anymore.

You should actually try reading what people are saying before arguing with them - nothing in the logic would imply that the Charr mask isn't Halloween. Who is arguing that costumes aren't Halloween?

Just because it is about undead, demons or other monsters and can be used as a Halloween decoration doesn't mean it is a melding of GW and Halloween. The argument here isn't that it couldn't be used as a Halloween decoration but that the actual entry, the actual created object, is not a melding of GW and Halloween. Look at some of the famous medieval/Renaissance artwork of demons and monsters like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sc...er_Anthony.jpg - would you use that as a Halloween decoration? Doubtful, but by some logic here it could very well be a Halloween piece of artwork just because it has demons in it.

This has nothing to do with just coloring something orange or adding a pumpkin or two - this is about providing a Halloween mood to an entry, and it lacks any Halloween mood. As I've said before, if it was just a really well-drawn or painted image of a flesh golem, who would be arguing for it? It probably wouldn't have even placed or been considered by ANet. The fact of the matter is that most people are arguing for it because it is probably the most creativity of all the winners, and because of this people feel it can skip other requirements.

I'm done arguing about the golem. I don't think there's anything either side can say that hasn't been said at this point. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, but I'm not going to just stay quiet when I feel there is something wrong with a contest I entered and put hard work in my entry to follow the rules. But honestly, I care more about the tattoo being an entry from the guy that got it and any other work not done by those that entered the contest than this sculpture. I just hope the Wintersday contest doesn't have this many problems (and also that it is to design one of the in-game holiday hats again.)