Curse

english storm · Dec 07, 2009, 01:56 PM // 13:56

People never learn, when SF is gone give it a few weeks/months for another build to crop up and it will be treated exactly the same as Ursans and SF. People just like to bitch and ruin other peoples fun imo.

Wuhy · Dec 07, 2009, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by english storm

People never learn, when SF is gone give it a few weeks/months for another build to crop up and it will be treated exactly the same as Ursans and SF. People just like to bitch and ruin other peoples fun imo.

To be honest, no. Decent people just don't like skills/consumables/titles/whatever that break entire games you know.

Marzipan Marci · Dec 07, 2009, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by novawhiz

Nerfing SF at this point will just make a bunch of people quitl

Like they've quitted at the Ursan nerf, right?

Stupid cr*ptalker troll.

kedde · Dec 07, 2009, 02:55 PM // 14:55

UW was never too hard 4,5 years ago.
It isn't today either, not with HM either since so many options for making you and your team have a raise in power higher than the enemies you fight are numerous in means of cons, stupidly powerful skills, and pve skills.

damkel · Dec 07, 2009, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by kedde

UW was never too hard 4,5 years ago.

Yeah that's true...it just took ages to do (even with a non-pug). I'm looking forward to SF nerf, will revive some old builds and hopefully create some new ones.

Arduin · Dec 07, 2009, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axeman002

Having done an UW run and realizing how much of an ass it is for Balanced teams....SF was a vitally important part of the structure as i doubt most of the other tanks can hold the aggro as long as needed like SF can...i know alot of people have a deep hate for SF and will probably have heart failure at seeing my post...but for this new UW i reckon it should stay as a tank perma but make it like feigned neutrality where if u use a spell if cancels out.

You don't need a tank in UW. Play more aggressively, killing > tanking. With a few 100 blades Warriors there is no need for tanking, not even aggromanagement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Does SF have a place in a nicely designed, balanced game?
That it does not.
Is GW a nicely designed, balanced game?
That it is not.

Killamus · Dec 07, 2009, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

You don't need a tank in UW. Play more aggressively, killing > tanking. With a few 100 blades Warriors there is no need for tanking, not even aggromanagement.

I would love to see you take 2-3 100b warriors into the Underworld in hard mode, aggro all the aatxes in the chamber and come out alive.

And yes, you do need some sort of tank for the 4 horseman split. I've tried several times without a dedicated tank, using two to three VERY competent monks, and failed every time. The only time we succeeded without a shadow form tank was when we brought an obby flesh tank for one side, and went 7/8 to kill the other side. And even then it was close, just because of the sheer damage output of the skeletons and terrorwebs.

Oh, and for anyone interested: We decided to have the obbly flesh tank bring sliver armor - In HM, the other side had just one of the horsemen left, no terrors.

/edit
By the way, I don't think that without shadow form, all of these areas will be impossible, my guild has already done 1:30 DoA clears without shadow form. But it will be a lot harder for normal teams to do these areas.

ChaosWarrior · Dec 07, 2009, 03:51 PM // 15:51

would people stop playing gw because it got nerfed?
It they nerf sf and after that the spirit build and after after after...
there's always something people find to do
red resign they doesn't exist anymore...
With what profession could people still farm if they remove anything people would like?
I need to say if a warrior fights a assassin (wich are both melee classes) in most casses the sin would win and the warrior would lose. Why? I have no idea.
the warrior exist for so much longer but still...

Rose Rune · Dec 07, 2009, 03:52 PM // 15:52

I have two things to say to this:

1. People will adapt to SF being gone, they adapted before, they'll adapt now. It wasn't here forever and it being nerfed might not even end up being a big deal.

2. Troll time, nom nom nom... :/

Gun Pierson · Dec 07, 2009, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by vamp08

Does anyone honestly think SF'ers "quitting" is going to impact ArenaNet? They have your money already, they dont care.

Linsey doesn't want players to quit that's why SF hasn't been nerfed into oblivion yet. Anet doesn't like the UWSC, but that doesn't mean they're gonna smiter's boon SF.

source:
http://www.youtube.com/user/arenanet.../2/-3ScVRiFm3A

They seem to have learned their lesson after nerfing Ursan, which resulted in an empty DoA instead of groups forming there.

Axeman002 · Dec 07, 2009, 04:03 PM // 16:03

yes but if they remove SF...what use will my sin be in UW or any other area...im not saying dont nerf it...im saying make it a tank skill (which still gets hit hard by skellies).

and ppl saying its Godmode skill it isnt...loads can hit thru it..but anyway back to my post...yeah u can take obby flesh tank and go back 3-4 years like they used to..but are they gonna fremove all the content to match how the game was 3-4 years ago? i think not ..so the sin has evolved to compensate these changes, hence being one of the best tanks...so take SF away from a sin and where do they fit in any UW or elite area run??? probably no where and then there banished to the useless proffession pile...so this is why i said keep it as a TANK only skill...also i felt it needed a new post as i assumed it would get abit more constructive answers...but i forgot this is a guru community so that was a silly idea really lol...yes i think Perma is OP WITH sliver form etc...

but take away the sliver usage and keep us a tank so we can still at least enjoy what little is left of the game.

Verene · Dec 07, 2009, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Oh, please.

Shadow Form is not a necessity for anything other than doing it the fast and lazy way. UW is not overly difficult for balanced groups. Will it take longer than a full group of perma tanks? Yes. But who cares? So you won't be able to farm it over and over and over. I think most people will live.

They shouldn't completely destroy the skill. It still can be a decent farming skill. But it definitely needs to be nerfed down from being an invincibility button like it is now.

Mercesa · Dec 07, 2009, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Nerfing Shadow form Is useless It will repeat the endless cycle of nerfs.

Skills > Builds > Overpowered > Nerf > Skills > New build found > Overpowered > Nerf Etc. It won't end.

ll Jamie ll · Dec 07, 2009, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by The build master

There is no reason to keep the godmode button ingame, good teams can always find ways to clear hard elite areas. And the pug groups will keep failing sounds good to mee.

This.

They can do what they like with SF tbh. Although changing it so you can't deal damage under it would be good enough.

Sniper22 · Dec 07, 2009, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Right now the speed clear time of UW has been significantly increased, now you're still asking for a SF nerf. I mean, you guys do realize that nerfing SF isn't going to stop UW speedclear builds right? People will always find a build that is the fastest and will only require certain professions and those builds will be what pugs run for UW. SF doesn't stop you guys from having fun with your guild by running a balanced build. SF is just one way of making UW fun for some people.

Arduin · Dec 07, 2009, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killamus

I would love to see you take 2-3 100b warriors into the Underworld in hard mode, aggro all the aatxes in the chamber and come out alive.

Granted, it was NM. But if you are aggroing all aatxes at the same time it's no wonder you can't complete the UW without a perma SF.

Also, six 100b Warriors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killamus

And yes, you do need some sort of tank for the 4 horseman split. I've tried several times without a dedicated tank, using two to three VERY competent monks, and failed every time. The only time we succeeded without a shadow form tank was when we brought an obby flesh tank for one side, and went 7/8 to kill the other side. And even then it was close, just because of the sheer damage output of the skeletons and terrorwebs.

Two teams of 3 100b Warriors + 1 Monk. Again, NM.

Zahr Dalsk · Dec 07, 2009, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

OH I FORGOT, tanks suck, thanks.

This. Tanking has always been shitway in Guild Wars, let's get rid of SF and see if we can fix the PvE meta.

english storm · Dec 07, 2009, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wuhy

To be honest, no. Decent people just don't like skills/consumables/titles/whatever that break entire games you know.

Ahh back to the redundant game breaking excuse. It's redundant and not true because you are not forced to use skills/consumables/titles/whatever. You can play without them and judging by the amount of bitching against them on here, there must be 100's of groups wanting to play without them...

People just don't want to be happy, Anet is damned if they do and damned if they don't due to people selfish behaviour.

daraaksii · Dec 07, 2009, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axeman002

Having done an UW run and realizing how much of an ass it is for Balanced teams....SF was a vitally important part of the structure as i doubt most of the other tanks can hold the aggro as long as needed like SF can...i know alot of people have a deep hate for SF and will probably have heart failure at seeing my post...but for this new UW i reckon it should stay as a tank perma but make it like feigned neutrality where if u use a spell if cancels out.

apart from the QQ posts anyone else agree on this?

ezmode much.

Carboplatin · Dec 07, 2009, 04:55 PM // 16:55

People were doing UW with core+ prophecies skills only without cons or pve skills.

you don't need SF.