Curse

Minami · Dec 03, 2009, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Again, agreed Verene.

Why don't the QQers make a costume then? Let's see how accurate and awesome looking they can make it. ^_^
THEN let's hear that it had nothing to do with creativity and art.

AngelWJedi · Dec 03, 2009, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verene

Costume making is art, FFS.

Just because it's not the first thing that leaps to mind doesn't mean it's not art.

Oh rly? then name more then 5 famous art buildins that have some? i think not. if you ask those owner they would say the mona lisa not some mad king costume. xD I know costumes take time and talent to make. my mom used to make them for me when i was a kid. and its not QQ about not gettting the tonic just how they chose to put it out. it would have been nice if they had added it to the end chest of those polar bear wintersday quest. then it would have been more special and everyone could have gotten it not just the few small peeps that get tattoos,draw,make some stick thing or a costume.

Verene · Dec 03, 2009, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelWJedi

Oh rly? then name more then 5 famous art buildins that have some? i think not. if you ask those owner they would say the mona lisa not some mad king costume. xD I know costumes take time and talent to make. my mom used to make them for me when i was a kid. and its not QQ about not gettting the tonic just how they chose to put it out. it would have been nice if they had added it to the end chest of those polar bear wintersday quest. then it would have been more special and everyone could have gotten it not just the few small peeps that get tattoos,draw,make some stick thing or a costume.

Your mom making you Halloween costumes as a kid does not mean that you have a grasp on how much time and work that it takes to make an accurate and wearable representation of a 2D image.

And how does that disprove anything I said? I said that just because it's not the first thing that you think of, doesn't mean it's not art. And clearly museums do believe that costumes and clothing in general are works of art, because many museums do have such things in their collections. Not to mention the fact that the costumes from the Lord of the Rings and Star Wars movies have been in traveling exhibitions around the world for years (I am still annoyed that I missed both of them when they were in Chicago, grrrr).

So you think rare things should only be a reward for endless farming. Okay, then, what do you think would be appropriate awards for these art contests?

Minami · Dec 03, 2009, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verene

*snip* So you think rare things should only be a reward for endless farming. *snip*

I have done about 1000-1100 runs for the polar bear last year... Didn't get any...
So it might not even be a reward for endless farming.

I definitely think the tonic (and the other prizes) are appropriate for this contest. Besides IMHO, making art for a contest is hell of a lot more fun than doing farm run after farm run >_<

Riot Narita · Dec 03, 2009, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Cool paper thingies. Free to download. Awesome.

Martin Alvito · Dec 03, 2009, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verene

Costume making is most definitely an art

Does it matter one way or the other? ANet employees like them and reward people who make them. That's how it is. Claims and counterclaims about whether or not it's a valid art form aren't going to alter that fact.

Charlie Dayman · Dec 03, 2009, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelWJedi

Oh rly? then name more then 5 famous art buildins that have some? i think not.

Yinka Shonibare would like to have a word with you.

http://www.brooklynmuseum.org/exhibi...shonibare_mbe/

As for your remark about "5 famous art buildings"; the fame of a museum has absolutely no relation to how artwork is to be viewed or legitimized. And please don't use the Mona Lisa as a paradigm in which these "5 famous art buildings" decide whether or not a work is to be considered art. There are hundreds of other forms and styles of art which are as equally valid as your mentioned Renaissance painting - fabric and cloth manipulation included.

Verene · Dec 03, 2009, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Does it matter one way or the other? ANet employees like them and reward people who make them. That's how it is. Claims and counterclaims about whether or not it's a valid art form aren't going to alter that fact.

Well, apparently it does matter, since so many people still complain about it (generally from a position of ignorance).

I have no problems with costumes winning awards. I make costumes myself and have won awards for them, I know first-hand just how much time and work and money they require. And I had stated before the contest had even ended that I was sure Tzu was going to win, having seen how much detail and work she put into it (progress photos FTW).

Jensy · Dec 03, 2009, 09:31 PM // 21:31

"it would have been nice if they had added it to the end chest of those polar bear wintersday quest. then it would have been more special and everyone could have gotten it"

That's making it less special, if anyone can get it. It's a prize, a nice prize -- everyone's just stuck looking at it in terms of ecto/armbraces and it's rather disgusting.

Charlie Dayman · Dec 03, 2009, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jensy

That's making it less special, if anyone can get it. It's a prize, a nice prize -- everyone's just stuck looking at it in terms of ecto/armbraces and it's rather disgusting.

Exactly. And even if they did add it to the end chest, I'm sure the drop rate would be so rare that people would still piss and moan about yet another item exclusive to only the high-end traders.

Chyminy Riquet · Dec 05, 2009, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc

Post your progress in Nolani ;-) Helpful Criticism

Wintersday Workshop

Thanks! I'll have to do that. Nice of you all to set that up.

AngelWJedi · Dec 05, 2009, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verene

Your mom making you Halloween costumes as a kid does not mean that you have a grasp on how much time and work that it takes to make an accurate and wearable representation of a 2D image.

And how does that disprove anything I said? I said that just because it's not the first thing that you think of, doesn't mean it's not art. And clearly museums do believe that costumes and clothing in general are works of art, because many museums do have such things in their collections. Not to mention the fact that the costumes from the Lord of the Rings and Star Wars movies have been in traveling exhibitions around the world for years (I am still annoyed that I missed both of them when they were in Chicago, grrrr).

So you think rare things should only be a reward for endless farming. Okay, then, what do you think would be appropriate awards for these art contests?

for one the ones in museums are period clothes not costumes, second others ones were made by famouse people. no i think if your going to put out rare items do it so EVERYONE can get it not just the ones with talent or money to buy work from someone to put on their bodies like that tattoo. and as for the prize the art book is good or a drawing signed by one of gw2/1 artists stuff like that.

And for the other one. you dont think that think that about the mad king mini or henchmen tonic? just cause you get it from a contest doesnt mean that dont think of it in terms of ectos and armbraces. look at those magizne/contest minis from asia.

AngelWJedi · Dec 05, 2009, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verene

Well, apparently it does matter, since so many people still complain about it (generally from a position of ignorance).

I have no problems with costumes winning awards. I make costumes myself and have won awards for them, I know first-hand just how much time and work and money they require. And I had stated before the contest had even ended that I was sure Tzu was going to win, having seen how much detail and work she put into it (progress photos FTW).

i only have one fault with this coment and that was the ignorance part. so anyone who does agree with you, our postion is ignorant? please tell me how not agreeing with you makes us ignorant?

Reformed · Dec 05, 2009, 06:26 PM // 18:26

I doubt, given precedent, that cosplayers are even going to be an issue for the Wintersday contest. I just did a quick scan and while they dominate Halloween, shenanigans as it is, I couldn't find a single entry that even placed for this contest over the years. Some of the negative reaction would probably go away if Anet would curb this idiotic trend of creating instant millionaires and fueling powertrade mania. Just saying...

Charlie Dayman · Dec 05, 2009, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelWJedi

for one the ones in museums are period clothes not costumes, second others ones were made by famouse people.

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying the only cloth work in museums are those exclusively from a historical era?

Again, look at Yinka's work here - taken from another one of his exhibitions. See that giant Gucci sign on the one to the left? That's definitely not from the Victorian era. Oh, and if it's not obviously implied from the textiles used in his work, all outfits are designed/sewn by Yinka and his team of artists.

http://stylefrizz.com/img/yinka-shon...n-maschera.jpg

In some of his other works, Yinka also dresses in the outfits himself in order to play different characters according to the costume. This may not be the same as cos-playing a character from a video game, but he is still dressing in a costume to portray a character other than himself.

And here's another artist for you: Cindy Sherman (some images NSFW)

http://www.cindysherman.com/

Check google images for even more of her character works since her homepage seems to surprisingly lack them. In any case, here is yet another contemporary artist well renowned for her costume work where she takes on the personality of the outfit.

If I'm mistaken about your previous comment, please correct me. But it sounds as if you qualify art as art if it has only been made in a non-contemporary setting.

KiyaKoreena · Dec 05, 2009, 07:15 PM // 19:15

The Metropolitan Museum of Art : http://www.metmuseum.org/Works_of_Ar...ment.asp?dep=8

Fashion Institute of Design and Merchandising: http://fidm.edu/resources/museum+gal...hibitions.html

Aww heck, just look here. Galleries and museums around the world. http://www.costumes.org/History/100pages/MUSEELNX.HTM

------------------

Anyhoo, back to work artists! Chop chop! Or sketch sketch!

Nuime · Dec 05, 2009, 07:31 PM // 19:31

If not for the fact I went ahead and bought the concept art book as soon as it came out, and the fact my brain is pretty much sapped of ideas right now, I'd consider doing this. Good luck to all those participating!

Oh... and as for the whole "costumes are not art" thing... pretty sure art is simply defined as the product of creativity, which I would say the costumes that have won in the past more than fit that role.
... As for the "museum" argument. Well, let's just say... those costumes by unknown Guild Wars fans are far more aethsetically pleasing and look like they took a lot more effort than even some paintings I have seen in very famous museums by famous artists. :P (*cough*contemporary art*cough*Basquiat instantly comes to mind*cough*)

Odinius · Dec 05, 2009, 10:48 PM // 22:48

I've gotten my gf to the point she agreed to let me bodypaint her and make her a sylvari plant armor, but I made a concept armpiece out of leaves that withered within a day (must be because of the glue).
Ditched the armor idea and started on a clay sculpture...

Kha · Dec 07, 2009, 02:07 AM // 02:07

I'll probably enter, even though I am still upset with how the judging was handled with the Halloween Contest. I was hoping it would be another design a hat contest, but I had an idea thought up for either way so I might as well try it. Guess I should get started soon so I have more time than I usually give myself to make it as awesome as I can

Zim. · Dec 07, 2009, 02:21 AM // 02:21

I think people should be rewarded for their hard artistic work, which is why I support the reindeer tonics. If only it were possible to get the tonic some other way though...