Curse

Burst Cancel · Dec 20, 2009, 11:15 PM // 23:15

The correct price is the one determined by supply and demand; what any particular individual considers to be "overpriced" is completely irrelevant. It could very well be that $1 per costume would yield more overall profit, but you don't have any data to support that assertion, now do you? There could be fewer than ten times more people that would buy at one-tenth of the price, in which case keeping the price high would generate more profit. And there's nothing stopping them from lowering the price later, after they've collected their early-adopter premium.

Bottom line: if you don't think a company is giving you value for your money, don't pay. That's a clear message that you're not happy with their bullshit - and it's about the only message anyone that matters is really paying attention to.

Steps_Descending · Dec 20, 2009, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

When you posted that you consider $20 still "micro" I LOL'd literally. You can get full games at any major supplier (EB Games, etc.) for $19.99!

Maybe its just me who thinks that $10 for two cosmetic skins is WAAY overcharging. But that's not even the main problem. The real issue is that this process sets a precedent that will alter how the game is maintained and any future games are developed.

It won't be long til you see Nike and Gatorade billboards in GW, and everything except the base game will cost money.

To be honest I don't know how anyone justifies paying $10 for an extra storage slot or costume, you're talking 1/5th the cost of a full game like Prophecies. Just insane.

I'll agree on the costume (over-)price. And yeah in fact, everything in the ANet's store borders on expensive. By the way, was the storage really 10$?

I'm somehow confident for the adds and transaction. Hoping they haven't COMPLETELY thrown the GW1 mindset away. I think they kept enough to make GW2 playable as a "free" and keep the adds at bay concidering it's not a very-small proffessional game. By playable, I mean like individual GW1 chapters are.
added : Why does the word doomsayer comes to mind...

Concerning the 20$, let's just say that price was for something like GW2's "expansion" in the size of Kurzick+luxon territory, maybe a bit smaller.
Maybe I missed something, but I tought th micro-transac title(for MMO) was more about buying fraction of the game at a time. Instead of the size of the bill.

I wonder which one is the most problematic...
Maybe my definition is off, but I tought the micro transac concept (for MMO) was more about buying things in-game as you needed them

Test Me · Dec 20, 2009, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRGN

That, and the fact when you mention, "Hey, it might be nice if ANet delivered the bi-monthly update bi-monthly instead of every 4 months instead of working on cosmetics", a billion people come out of the woodwork and tell you to RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO off for having the slightest criticism, makes it a rather frustrating experience.

My point all along as well. They had to push back the skill update, so sad

( "But wait go check our in-game store, we're selling some $10 costumes right in time for Christmas!" Obviously they didn't miss that deadline.

Puebert · Dec 20, 2009, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

You can put in elite armor to HoM and they function exactly like normal armor, whereas costumes covers everything but has no effect.
They also contribute to a "100% completion"

Also, anet would never put obsidian armor into the ingamestore simply out of principle. What developer removes content unless it's broken!?

I don't see the point of your argument. Are you suggesting ANET should remove costumes from the game because armor are mainly cosmetic changes? Because that would be really stupid.

The point of my argument is, I don't believe they should have an "armor" that is only available in the ingame store.

And the "principle" argument is stupid. Anet's key principle was an anti-grind game, and look at EotN.
But yes, I understand that they wouldn't remove obs armor.

darkknightkain · Dec 20, 2009, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Personally I am not against micro IF I can pick and choose, but I think right now Anet are nowhere being "micro" enough.

I'd much prefer if they just break that $10 package apart into 8x $1.25~1.50 pieces... ie
- Grenth Costume Head (Male)
- Grenth Costume Head (Female)
- Grenth Costume Body (Male)
- Grenth Costume Body (Female)
- Dwayna Costume Head (Male)
- Dwayna Costume Head (Female)
- Dwayna Costume Body (Male)
- Dwayna Costume Body (Female)
Then I can just only pick up the parts I want and skip what I don't need. That way is more justifiable as a micro purchase.

Same with the makeover kits last time. Who needs that many (5) makeover kits all at once...

Either way, I still much prefer if the micros stay for these vanity (useless) stuffs rather than buying ingame gold like LE minipets & XTH.

Puebert · Dec 20, 2009, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

Yes.

But here's something to think about: do you really value $9.99 over the time it takes you to get Obsidian armor? Somebody who earns even US minimum wage would actually save a significant amount of time by buying the armor with real money. Anet would actually be doing players a favor by moving the armor to the store.

Yes, I do. I know it's crazy, but I honestly think it is more fun to earn the ectos/shards myself (via powertrading/farming) than it is to pay $10.

So, I'm going to assume you're the type of person that would pay an additional $100 to have all character automatically start out with the game beaten, elite armors in their inventory, all titles maxed and all skills unlocked.

Burst Cancel · Dec 21, 2009, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puebert

Yes, I do. I know it's crazy, but I honestly think it is more fun to earn the ectos/shards myself (via powertrading/farming) than it is to pay $10.

So, I'm going to assume you're the type of person that would pay an additional $100 to have all character automatically start out with the game beaten, elite armors in their inventory, all titles maxed and all skills unlocked.

No, I'm the type of person that plays fighting games.

coil · Dec 21, 2009, 12:35 AM // 00:35

imo they're towing a very very fine line atm between the "asian" style p2p and their original business model.

i have no prob with paying for expansions. but when a game starts to have an "item store" that sells "fairy wings", that, to me, feels so utterly cheap that i dont want to play it.

and with all these costumes it's getting closer to that. i hope it doesnt. (although i must admit a "rare mini pet" pack for ~100 $ including mini kanaxi/island/panda would be tempting for the hardcores)

on another note, unless they had these costume models in place for 2 yrs prior, why not just take the time to model new baddies for a "new" zone using recycled environments and sell it for ~15$ as a mini expansion..like a realm of melandru or lyssa. you'd get a ton of sales and wouldnt have to worry about the "cheapness" factor associated with fairy wings.

Professor K · Dec 21, 2009, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

No, I'm the type of person that plays fighting games.

Hope you don't play BlazeBlue, Street Fighter 4, or Soul Calibur 4 as they are riddled with microtransactions.

w00t! · Dec 21, 2009, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puebert

The point of my argument is, I don't believe they should have an "armor" that is only available in the ingame store.

Why not? I have Divine Aura, which was only available by purchasing the Collector's Edition when Guild Wars Prophecies was first released. So clearly this model has existed since inception.

And as I stated in another thread, when I see someone else wearing the new armor (I haven't made my mind up either way) I simply think "Oh cool, someone paid Anet $10 for the costume. At least it'll help keep the lights on."

While I don't necessarily love Micro-transactions, I realize that they're optional and have no effect on game play. I'm certainly prepared to have a QQ fit if this changes.

Kaleban · Dec 21, 2009, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t!

Why not? I have Divine Aura, which was only available by purchasing the Collector's Edition when Guild Wars Prophecies was first released. So clearly this model has existed since inception.

Pretty sure that $9.99 of the CE purchase price was NOT what it cost to develop sparkling swirlies around your hands...

Quote:

And as I stated in another thread, when I see someone else wearing the new armor (I haven't made my mind up either way) I simply think "Oh cool, someone paid Anet $10 for the costume. At least it'll help keep the lights on."

The lights are kept on by GW sales profits, the Costume sales are shareholder padding. As I've explained elsewhere, no company in its right mind would bank its future survival and electric bills on the selling of overpriced cosmetic fluff.

Quote:

While I don't necessarily love Micro-transactions, I realize that they're optional and have no effect on game play. I'm certainly prepared to have a QQ fit if this changes.

Be prepared. The more lemmings that buy the costume pack will only fuel the idea at ANet that this is a viable method of running the business.

FyrFytr998 · Dec 21, 2009, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

But here's something to think about: do you really value $9.99 over the time it takes you to get Obsidian armor? Somebody who earns even US minimum wage would actually save a significant amount of time by buying the armor with real money. Anet would actually be doing players a favor by moving the armor to the store.

I've stated before that ANET could use this premise to stop some of the things that have plagued the game. Using the above statement as a reference, people would definitely value $9.99 over the time it takes to get FoW armor. Why? Because I knew players that were banned because they e-Bayed complete FoW Kits that included ALL materials and the run to the armorer. I asked them how much they were making and I nearly fell out of my computer chair. They had people paying over $100 dollars US for these "kits"!!

That's why I'm not impressed with people and their FoW armors, because they quite possibly could have bought it. Even now you can go to many sites and still acquire all the necessary materials for the armor and only have to pay for the armor run in game. Example using googled "Guild Wars Gold" search:

FoW Armor Main Components
150 ecto w/ 120 shards : $50US (package deal)
+ other materials
+ In game payment for run to armorer

You save time and get a cool look with the drawback of possibly getting caught and banned. Which it seems can't possibly be happening all that much since business seems to be booming at these sites.

Cool looking costume from ANET
$9.99US

You save time and get a cool look without any drawbacks what so ever.

Gee..... $50 or $10 what to do....what to do?

Even if this is where GW2 is headed, it's not like it hasn't been done before in other games. Some games offer a base game with the "OPTION" of purchasing an enhanced package. Like the costumes, it's entirely up to the player how much they want to invest into the game.

I personally feel like ANET can actually make the game better if they were to make "vanity" items an optional micro transaction. 99% of the problems associated with Guild Wars has to do with Vanity. People farm with broken builds to attain wealth for vanity. People go to these Gold Sellers with real money to attain virtual vanity. "Purist" game players QQ because the emphasis on Vanity supposedly takes away from their game play experience because they have to grind for whatever reason. Or can't play their "Spirit Mesmer Battlemage" build because they're not a Permawin. ANET could then devise another way of stroking leet players e-peens like say having a hall of fame in their guild halls or some crap like that. Or like those fancy animal flash things people do in town.

I understand that what drew a lot of us to GW were the promises made by them in the beginning. No fees, no grind, etc. Well things change. And we can either quit the game or accept those changes. I bitch a lot sometimes about how things are done, but I'd rather bitch for free about an opton than bitch while I'm paying someone a mandatory fee.

TL;DR - Change happens. $10 is cheaper than $50 dollars from a gold seller. If you don't like that they broke promises you can always leave.

Fril Estelin · Dec 21, 2009, 07:02 AM // 07:02

People are afraid Anet is on the slippery slope of becoming a greedy company, like the mammoth of the industry. But they're not. IMHO they're providing a tiny paying service in the myriad of things they'll provide quasi-free (i.e. buy-to-play). It's one way to reduce the risk associated to their business model, without taking the risk of jeopardizing it and then having later on to take more drastic actions.

I can't buy it now, but in different circumstances I would because I believe it's worth it. Like when I paid for the GW2 artbook, it was worth that price to me and it gave me back my money in pleasure. It's a goodie, albeit a virtual one, and it doesn't really change the game itself, apart maybe (hopefully) of making sure that Anet has the resources to make GW2 a really great game

.

silara_jorinset · Dec 21, 2009, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkknightkain

Personally I am not against micro IF I can pick and choose, but I think right now Anet are nowhere being "micro" enough.

I'd much prefer if they just break that $10 package apart into 8x $1.25~1.50 pieces... ie
- Grenth Costume Head (Male)
- Grenth Costume Head (Female)
- Grenth Costume Body (Male)
- Grenth Costume Body (Female)
- Dwayna Costume Head (Male)
- Dwayna Costume Head (Female)
- Dwayna Costume Body (Male)
- Dwayna Costume Body (Female)
Then I can just only pick up the parts I want and skip what I don't need. That way is more justifiable as a micro purchase.

Same with the makeover kits last time. Who needs that many (5) makeover kits all at once...

Either way, I still much prefer if the micros stay for these vanity (useless) stuffs rather than buying ingame gold like LE minipets & XTH.

There's only two bits to each anyway though, the costume and the hat. But I see your thinking.

Coverticus · Dec 21, 2009, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Tbh, this is fine - as peeps have stated already here, MTs have always existed in some shape or format within Guild Wars, so this extra addition to the pot is fine.

My only concern would be (as coil mentioned) would be the sway towards the Asian-style MMO from a transaction point of view. If you take PW-MW (Perfect World Malaysia) as an example, to get somewhere you pay in real money to help get you there (or you have endless hours to grind away). I certainly remember "Lucky Presents" being purchasable and these gave you a chance of a very high end item. I actually gave this a shot (as the currency exchange at the time was very favourable to do so) and I made a killing from £5 (I got lucky twice lol).

If ArenaNet keep to what they are doing and NOT making items "only available in the store" that can have a DIRECT influence on the game, then that is fine.

upier · Dec 21, 2009, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

Your ignorance out does itself time and time again. If you don't like what ANET does why do you insist on hanging around and spewing your stupid comments over and over again. You must have better things to do, Last time I looked you didn't have to sign a contract stating you must play GW even if you don't like it. I choose to continue to play for I do not have the concerns that you may have, it's a game no more and no less.

My argument was that if consumers are not satisfied with a product, there is ABSOLUTELY no obligation on the consumer's behalf to continue supporting that product.
You disagreed with that, countering my argument with emotional attachment to said product.

And that's the biggest danger here. Because a consumer's emotional attachment to a product can prevent the consumer to objectively assess said product, leaving the producer to be able to earn more from said product than the product is actually worth. Or, it actually prevents products that should fail on the market to not fail.

mrdbeau · Dec 22, 2009, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Microtransactions with no affect on gameplay = good to go.

Rocky Raccoon · Dec 22, 2009, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

My argument was that if consumers are not satisfied with a product, there is ABSOLUTELY no obligation on the consumer's behalf to continue supporting that product.
You disagreed with that, countering my argument with emotional attachment to said product.

And that's the biggest danger here. Because a consumer's emotional attachment to a product can prevent the consumer to objectively assess said product, leaving the producer to be able to earn more from said product than the product is actually worth. Or, it actually prevents products that should fail on the market to not fail.

I don't disagree that if "you" are not happy with the product that ANET is providing that "you" don't have to support it. I am just saying that all people don't necessarily agree with your point of view. What you may consider a game killer may not be a problem for others. The fact that people are willing to buy the products offered seems to infer that to some people
GW should not fail and is not a failure. There is not a perfect game on the market GW included, I just feel that GW has many more pluses than negatives and "I" still enjoy playing it.

headlesshobbs · Dec 22, 2009, 06:45 PM // 18:45

I don't mean to be prude but I'm tempted to go grab a bag of popcorn for all the drama here.

Not everyone is going to be happy with the way store items are being handled. I still hold a grudge over how slots and makeovers are being set up, but if there's nothing to make a considerable dent over gameplay fundamentals, then I won't have any problem with it.

Of course they could change the makeover part from credits to permanent unlock.... just an idea.

Silverblad3 · Dec 23, 2009, 10:37 AM // 10:37

Overpriced, would gladly pay $40 for a real content update/expansion with the costumes etc. These are not micro transactions and unfortunately if this is the route they intend to go with GW2 then I am really looking forward to Diablo 3.

Thanks to all those who paid for them with the lack of balance updates and new content which Lindsay is looking forward to, it just supports bad customer relations, promotes gimmicks and the poor way customers are treated. Nice one...