Curse

BrettM · Jan 13, 2010, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

The reason for the latter is because it inflates the economy. This vastly increases the gap in wealth between those who farm and those who do not farm, while simultaneously decreasing the value of all the items in the game.

Let me get this straight: inflation causes prices to fall? The rich get richer because they get less for the items they sell, while the poor get poorer for exactly the same reason? So, if a poor person sells a sword for 10k that used to be worth 25k, he gets poorer, while a rich person selling the same sword for the same price would get richer? I'm a bit confused as to how this works.

Or are you saying that the problem is that the poor person, being deprived of 15k on the transaction, is somehow not getting wealthier as fast as the rich person, who also gets 15k less, but was getting wealthier at the same or greater rate when both received 25k? And this is bad despite the fact that the poor person now has more wealth in absolute terms?

Gill Halendt · Jan 13, 2010, 07:14 PM // 19:14

I find every argument in favor of SF very weak.

The fact that a lot of people can't see past the "fun" without taking how excessive and abusive it is into account makes me wonder...

Del · Jan 13, 2010, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

When I infuse in PvP, I mash buttons too.

infusing takes timing to catch a spike, and you have tr react quickly, with shadowform you can watch it recharge, precast glyph, then paradox and sf, it takes no effort. comparing button mashing to pressing a button to catch a spike is an extremely weak argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

You guys are totally missing the point which was about mashing buttons. In theory infusing is pressing 1 button, but ofcourse at the right time and with energy management and what not in mind. So no, it's not the same as SF you smartasses.

I just think the counter argument about SF and mashing buttons is pretty weak.

so to counter a weak argument against sf, you come up with a completely irrelevant argument?

Gun Pierson · Jan 13, 2010, 07:50 PM // 19:50

If you can't see what I was trying to explain there, then so be it. You can disagree, I have no problem with that. I realise the infusing example was not the best example.

Abedeus · Jan 13, 2010, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

If you can't see what I was trying to explain there, then so be it. You can disagree, I have no problem with that. I realise the infusing example was not the best example.

Stop arguing, you lost the debate the second you put SF and Infuse in the same post. I would agree with you, only if SF lasted 20 seconds at best and had a recharge of 19 seconds. Even then, one second gap is not even slightly comparable to Infuse Health.

Gun Pierson · Jan 13, 2010, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Stop arguing, you lost the debate the second you put SF and Infuse in the same post. I would agree with you, only if SF lasted 20 seconds at best and had a recharge of 19 seconds. Even then, one second gap is not even slightly comparable to Infuse Health.

Yeah, you're right, I shot myself in the foot there. Anyway, last post from me in this thread. Peace out!

Ariovist Lynxkind · Jan 13, 2010, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Man, reading since the last post I made has just made me feel frustrated. The way people are talking, it is like the Live Team have been sitting on their hands since the last skill update....

Given that the majority of Anet staff would be working on GW 2, I assume that there is only actually a handful of people in the Live Team. People will probably pick this point because it is an assumption, but it probably isn't far from the truth. The Test Krewe? they are just the guinea pigs, the QA before it reaches us. While they will have an input, the LT are the ones behind the changes, not TK. Also, this is the first time with the TK, and yeah, by the looks they are having teething problems. no surprise there when you are entering a new system into a model.

But that aside, what has happened since the last update....?

Whats this? changes in UW? New enemies? Dhuum? That is also not mentioning the fact that they had halloween as well...

Hmmm, this one is interesting, an overhaul of the HA/GvG henchies thanks to the removal of Heros from PvP. Wow, the new Codex Arena. Yeah, I am sure that was done overnight.... *insert eye-roll here*

Then we have Wintersday... With the addition of costumes, a new quest (or two), new pet, plus all the normal problems associated with running the event, and some not so normal (when is Wintersday Redux?), though they did react pretty swiftly considering the time of year.

That, plus some recent issues with NCSoft....

Yeah, they have really been sitting on their hands since september, havent they /sarcasm

Axel Zinfandel · Jan 13, 2010, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

Man, reading since the last post I made has just made me feel frustrated. The way people are talking, it is like the Live Team have been sitting on their hands since the last skill update....

Given that the majority of Anet staff would be working on GW 2, I assume that there is only actually a handful of people in the Live Team. People will probably pick this point because it is an assumption, but it probably isn't far from the truth. The Test Krewe? they are just the guinea pigs, the QA before it reaches us. While they will have an input, the LT are the ones behind the changes, not TK. Also, this is the first time with the TK, and yeah, by the looks they are having teething problems. no surprise there when you are entering a new system into a model.

But that aside, what has happened since the last update....?

Whats this? changes in UW? New enemies? Dhuum? That is also not mentioning the fact that they had halloween as well...

Hmmm, this one is interesting, an overhaul of the HA/GvG henchies thanks to the removal of Heros from PvP. Wow, the new Codex Arena. Yeah, I am sure that was done overnight.... *insert eye-roll here*

Then we have Wintersday... With the addition of costumes, a new quest (or two), new pet, plus all the normal problems associated with running the event, and some not so normal (when is Wintersday Redux?), though they did react pretty swiftly considering the time of year.

That, plus some recent issues with NCSoft....

Yeah, they have really been sitting on their hands since september, havent they /sarcasm

No one is saying that they've done jack with GW itself. They have however done jack as far as skill updates. That's what we're complaining about. seperate issue. That's like saying "it's ok if the government stops social security, because they're working on the economy."

crappy example, but still.

Giga_Gaia · Jan 14, 2010, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

Man, reading since the last post I made has just made me feel frustrated. The way people are talking, it is like the Live Team have been sitting on their hands since the last skill update....

Given that the majority of Anet staff would be working on GW 2, I assume that there is only actually a handful of people in the Live Team. People will probably pick this point because it is an assumption, but it probably isn't far from the truth. The Test Krewe? they are just the guinea pigs, the QA before it reaches us. While they will have an input, the LT are the ones behind the changes, not TK. Also, this is the first time with the TK, and yeah, by the looks they are having teething problems. no surprise there when you are entering a new system into a model.

But that aside, what has happened since the last update....?

Whats this? changes in UW? New enemies? Dhuum? That is also not mentioning the fact that they had halloween as well...

Hmmm, this one is interesting, an overhaul of the HA/GvG henchies thanks to the removal of Heros from PvP. Wow, the new Codex Arena. Yeah, I am sure that was done overnight.... *insert eye-roll here*

Then we have Wintersday... With the addition of costumes, a new quest (or two), new pet, plus all the normal problems associated with running the event, and some not so normal (when is Wintersday Redux?), though they did react pretty swiftly considering the time of year.

That, plus some recent issues with NCSoft....

Yeah, they have really been sitting on their hands since september, havent they /sarcasm

While you do have a point - the main issue here is that Anet can't set their priorities straight. Seriously, wintersday hats over a much needed skill update? And here we've been told that events are all automated now. So after the Halloween additions, where did all the development time go? 2 measly costumes? Oh, come onnnn....

Ariovist Lynxkind · Jan 14, 2010, 01:50 AM // 01:50

@Axel: kinda is an okay example, but if you want to compare it to government the LT is about the same size as a senate committee. they probably have been working in dribbs and drabs on the skills, but they have also had to put other things in, and they just dont have the manpower. Someone previously made a comment that it took them 6 months to release NF after Factions, but in that situation they had the whole Anet crew on it, not just a small portion

@Giga: yeah, the events are automated, but the costumes weren't the only things added. they needed to do the coding for the new costume/festival hat setup on top, code the Snowball Domination quest, re-do some of the snowball PvP skills, plus include the Wintersday Moa (which needs to be set up in the menagerie as well as being enabled for the quest)

Xenex Xclame · Jan 14, 2010, 02:43 AM // 02:43

I was waiting for someone to comment on my "they designed faction/nightfall in 6 months)

They took 6 monks to make new skins,new monster textures,new maps,new npcs,new quest,new mission,new towns etc etc.

Im just asking them to update the skills,they dont have to create new animation for skills, no new skill icons, no new bosses to cap those skills, no new skill quest etc etc.

Zehnchu · Jan 14, 2010, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenex Xclame

I was waiting for someone to comment on my "they designed faction/nightfall in 6 months)

They took 6 monks to make new sins,new monster textures,new maps,new npcs,new quest,new mission,new towns etc etc.

Im just asking them to update the skills,they dont have to create new animation for skills, no new skill icons, no new bosses to cap those skills, no new skill quest etc etc.

Kinda, half the team was working on Factions for a year then the rest joined in the last six months once Factions launched they split the team again half worked on it for a year the other half in the last six.

mrvrod · Jan 14, 2010, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apathetic Tom

unless they fix enemy AI pve will always be a joke.

I think that's spot on and one of the biggest reasons NOT to continually break out the nerfbat. PvE is a house infested with cockroaches. Anet keeps stomping one cockroach at a time and claiming the infestation is now fixed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apathetic Tom

Fallacious argument. pressing glyph, paradox, sf in order takes no skill whatsoever, whereas catching a spike and keeping red bars up does. Personally, the fact that you'd go so far as to compare monking in pvp to maintaining sf (as if they're in any way similar) leads me to believe that you shouldn't be monking in pvp.

I seriously doubt anyone who's played PvP even once is trying to say they're both skill-less. PvE with 8 skills, no matter what those skills are, is a skill-less game. once you figure out what you need to do to beat the mission, area, whatever, do the same thing and get the same results. You play PvE for the storyline and the role-play. PvP with 8 skills, no matter what those skills are, you have to constantly adjust to a real, live, thinking opponent. It's the difference between playing tick-tack-toe and chess.

And just so I don't get flamed for being some PvP elitist picking on the PvEers... I am a PvEer and I can't stand PvP, I just recognize that it takes talent.

Ariovist Lynxkind · Jan 14, 2010, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenex Xclame

I was waiting for someone to comment on my "they designed faction/nightfall in 6 months)

They took 6 monks to make new skins,new monster textures,new maps,new npcs,new quest,new mission,new towns etc etc.

Im just asking them to update the skills,they dont have to create new animation for skills, no new skill icons, no new bosses to cap those skills, no new skill quest etc etc.

actually, it took them a year to bring out Factions, and I would say the later part of that time was when the groundwork was being done for NF, so it would roughly be 9 months for that with the workforce split.

on the other hand, we would have less than 1/4 of the workforce still working on the game and still putting stuff in, but like any other normal human being they cant do a million things at once...

Xenex Xclame · Jan 14, 2010, 05:30 AM // 05:30

They dont need to do a million things, at the most 300 skill changes.

Skyy High · Jan 14, 2010, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giga_Gaia

While you do have a point - the main issue here is that Anet can't set their priorities straight. Seriously, wintersday hats over a much needed skill update? And here we've been told that events are all automated now. So after the Halloween additions, where did all the development time go? 2 measly costumes? Oh, come onnnn....

Or, you know, like they said, it got eaten up by trying to integrate all of the feedback from the Test Krewe. I'm willing to bet that they didn't even bother trying to get any work out of a big group of, need I emphasize this, volunteers over the holidays, but they still wanted more testing to be done before releasing the skill balance.

Gill Halendt · Jan 14, 2010, 06:45 AM // 06:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

Man, reading since the last post I made has just made me feel frustrated. The way people are talking, it is like the Live Team have been sitting on their hands since the last skill update....

Whats this? changes in UW? New enemies? Dhuum? That is also not mentioning the fact that they had halloween as well...

Then we have Wintersday... With the addition of costumes, a new quest (or two), new pet, plus all the normal problems associated with running the event, and some not so normal (when is Wintersday Redux?), though they did react pretty swiftly considering the time of year.

That, plus some recent issues with NCSoft....

Yeah, they have really been sitting on their hands since september, havent they /sarcasm

- The introduction of Dhuum took pretty much a month and was plagued by a lot of serious bugs which were fixed with 3-4 subsequent updates. Testing much?
- No new quests for Wintersday. The Jingle Moa is a reskinned charmable animal and was introduced together with a bug in the Menagerie. Costumes had numerous glitches (hats not showing, costumes disappearing, wrong colors applied, costume slots not working properly). Again, testing much?
- New hats were incredibly poor this year, and for the first time ever the finale happened to be bugged, so now a redux is needed.
- Issues with the NCSoft website are not handled by the Live Team.

And that's even BEFORE we talk about priorities...

Ariovist Lynxkind · Jan 14, 2010, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

- The introduction of Dhuum took pretty much a month and was plagued by a lot of serious bugs which were fixed with 3-4 subsequent updates. Testing much?
- No new quests for Wintersday. The Jingle Moa is a reskinned charmable animal and was introduced together with a bug in the Menagerie. Costumes had numerous glitches (hats not showing, costumes disappearing, wrong colors applied, costume slots not working properly). Again, testing much?
- New hats were incredibly poor this year, and for the first time ever the finale happened to be bugged, so now a redux is needed.
- Issues with the NCSoft website are not handled by the Live Team.

And that's even BEFORE we talk about priorities...

The testing issues: that is why they have the new TK. Hopefully it will mean that the bugs will be ironed out before new stuff gets put in, or in the case of the skill update to make sure bugs don't make their way through to the game (as has happened in the past)

While the issues with the NCSoft website ended up having a solution put in by the Live Team anyway. I know NCSoft is dragging the chain, but personally I would rather ANet take the time to put in what they did rather than have the hacking of accounts continue.

I will actually concede the no new quest for Wintersday, though. I was mistakenly thinking Snowball Domination was a new quest but it was put in 08. my mistake there

All in all, though, the LT is doing the best they can with a limited number of people (didn't they have to collar one of the GW2 artists to do the costumes?) at a busy time of the year. Given the bugs you have pointed out, and knowing the ones that have happened in the past, I would rather they run it through the TK and get it right rather than spend an extra couple of months fixing mistakes, pushing more skill updates back.

On a personal opinion side of things, except for a couple of over-powered builds that should be looked at, I could care less about a skill update. I would personally prefer them focus on new content (eg: Dhuum's introduction to UW) to make things more interesting because except for a slight shake up in PvP and less money in the economy from farm nerfing, the game isnt going to be that much more different and we still have at least a year till GW2. I just acknowledge they only have a small fraction of the staff to work with cause nearly everyone at Anet is working on GW2, probably trying to prevent the issues that plague the current game

Gill Halendt · Jan 14, 2010, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

The testing issues: that is why they have the new TK. Hopefully it will mean that the bugs will be ironed out before new stuff gets put in, or in the case of the skill update to make sure bugs don't make their way through to the game (as has happened in the past)

We're not talking about MINOR bugs tough. Dhumm had half of his skillbar not working when released, and that was clearly noticeable. Costumes had obvious glitches. There was probably little testing on those in the urge of introducing content in a timely manner.

But hey, that's ok, I'm an IT engineer and I know bugs are pretty much the norm. They were acceptable since I though their focus was on "pressing issues" like balance, PvP bots, security issues, while Dhumm, Wintersday Costumes and the Jingle Moa were secondary projects.

Yet those secondary projects seem to be the only ones to advance, and this leaves me wondering about their organization.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

On a personal opinion side of things, except for a couple of over-powered builds that should be looked at, I could care less about a skill update.

Indeed. That's it. I really wonder why they felt the need to put EVERYTHING they had in mind in a cumulative update, when they themselves called some of those issues "pressing". Isn't their fix urgent? Shouldn't those "pressing issues" receive a solution now, even before they focus on making Tactics more viable for Warriors, or whatever?

Tenebrae · Jan 14, 2010, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giga_Gaia

While you do have a point - the main issue here is that Anet can't set their priorities straight. Seriously, wintersday hats over a much needed skill update? And here we've been told that events are all automated now. So after the Halloween additions, where did all the development time go? 2 measly costumes? Oh, come onnnn....

Thats it. What is even more ridiculous is ppl saying here "hey , there are other broken stuff ingame so fix them all or fix none" ..... yeah , 5 months to rework 6-10 skills and some ppl still talk like an ENTIRE mob skill set and AI rework is something possible pfff.