Curse

Karate Jesus · Jan 11, 2010, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

I wouldn't expect any skill update this month, they must be working hard on "new content" for the Canthan New Year festival, just like they did for Wintersday. More costumes for $$$ are more important than playable content and quality skill updates, right?

If there's no skill balance this Thursday, then it'll be next month. Which would put the skill update 5 months late on the "new" schedule.

This is getting rather bad. I understand that money/security/bugs are important, but so is a non-shitterific meta.

Hell, PvP isn't even fun to play anymore.

iTzF3aR · Jan 11, 2010, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

If there's no skill balance this Thursday, then it'll be next month. Which would put the skill update 5 months late on the "new" schedule.

This is getting rather bad. I understand that money/security/bugs are important, but so is a non-shitterific meta.

Hell, PvP isn't even fun to play anymore.

That is why I wish Anet would actually try to stick with their own program. Keep this game somewhat alive and fun to play. Tired of lame meta. :\

DreamWind · Jan 12, 2010, 12:04 AM // 00:04

The idea that there will always be one dominant overpowered build no matter what Anet does in PvE and PvP is retarded.

I think a lot of people are just saying that here because they have never played a game with actual balance, they think Anet knows what they are doing (when they clearly don't), and they most likely have no idea what they are talking about.

Turbo Ginsu · Jan 12, 2010, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Expecting GW ever to be balanced, when it's just one big sliding scale, is about as silly as petitioning Capcom to remove Ken and Ryu because they're clearly imba. Even Microsoft do better updates.

Regina Buenaobra · Jan 12, 2010, 02:33 AM // 02:33

So I know some of you are waiting anxiously for the next skill balance. Let me just take a few moments to talk about the challenges we're facing with this particular skill balance. We are involving the Test Krewe in this balance. They've really been digging deep into skill discussions, and the involvement of the Test Krewe has added more cycles to the skill balance process. This is to be expected. When you invite a large group of people into the process and solicit and discuss their feedback, it will take more time. Secondly, skill balance (like many aspects of game design) is an iterative process, and one where both the Test Krewe and the Live Team are learning, streamlining, and improving on, in terms of how best to deliver and take in feedback. The winter holiday break hit, and there was some downtime for that. Finally, you all know that we do not change skills before the MAT. The Live Team and Test Krewe are working earnestly on this skill balance, and the Team knows that you've been waiting for it.

Snow Bunny · Jan 12, 2010, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

So I know some of you are waiting anxiously for the next skill balance. Let me just take a few moments to talk about the challenges we're facing with this particular skill balance. We are involving the Test Krewe in this balance. They've really been digging deep into skill discussions, and the involvement of the Test Krewe has added more cycles to the skill balance process. This is to be expected. When you invite a large group of people into the process and solicit and discuss their feedback, it will take more time. Secondly, skill balance (like many aspects of game design) is an iterative process, and one where both the Test Krewe and the Live Team are learning, streamlining, and improving on, in terms of how best to deliver and take in feedback. The winter holiday break hit, and there was some downtime for that. Finally, you all know that we do not change skills before the MAT. The Live Team and Test Krewe are working earnestly on this skill balance, and the Team knows that you've been waiting for it.

itt: February at the earliest.

Quote:

Finally, you all know that we do not change skills before the MAT.

OH REALLY? I BEG TO DIFFER.

chadS · Jan 12, 2010, 03:13 AM // 03:13

For once I would like something to come at the time first designated.

mrvrod · Jan 12, 2010, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

The idea that there will always be one dominant overpowered build no matter what Anet does in PvE and PvP is retarded.

Actually with the way GW was designed (PvE) this is a fact. There's a 5 year track record that proves there will always be "overpowered" builds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I think a lot of people are just saying that here because they have never played a game with actual balance, they think Anet knows what they are doing (when they clearly don't), and they most likely have no idea what they are talking about.

Actually many of us on both sides of the nerf argument have said that anet is not addressing this issue correctly with the constant "rebalancing" of skills. The problem is that GW would need an overhaul of the core game mechanics to get away from the nerf/buff cycle, and with GW2 on the way, that's just not going to happen.

So anet does what they think is best, when they think it's needed, and we debate the logic. I expect GW2 will be a much more balanced game and will use a different system than found in the original. With all the moaning and complaining I do, GW has been an INCREDIBLE game! There are things they did well, which you will see continued in GW2. And there are things that need improvement, and you will see the results of those changes in GW2.

Maybe I'm hoping for too much, but I fully expect to be blown away by GW2.

MisterB · Jan 12, 2010, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

We are involving the Test Krewe in this balance. They've really been digging deep into skill discussions, and the involvement of the Test Krewe has added more cycles to the skill balance process. When you invite a large group of people into the process and solicit and discuss their feedback, it will take more time.

It's the Test Krewe's fault. Burn them. Burn them with fire.

I didn't see any target date or indication of such a thing. Thanks for the explanation.

edit: Relax, Test Krewe people, I'm not really blaming you.

Chocobo1 · Jan 12, 2010, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

So I know some of you are waiting anxiously for the next skill balance. Let me just take a few moments to talk about the challenges we're facing with this particular skill balance. We are involving the Test Krewe in this balance. They've really been digging deep into skill discussions, and the involvement of the Test Krewe has added more cycles to the skill balance process. This is to be expected. When you invite a large group of people into the process and solicit and discuss their feedback, it will take more time. Secondly, skill balance (like many aspects of game design) is an iterative process, and one where both the Test Krewe and the Live Team are learning, streamlining, and improving on, in terms of how best to deliver and take in feedback. The winter holiday break hit, and there was some downtime for that. Finally, you all know that we do not change skills before the MAT. The Live Team and Test Krewe are working earnestly on this skill balance, and the Team knows that you've been waiting for it.

Who cares, please just change something up. I want to kill myself over this stale game. I love GW, but apparently you guys don't. 5 Months for a skill update is a bit of a joke.

Zahr Dalsk · Jan 12, 2010, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

Who cares, please just change something up. I want to kill myself over this stale game.

This. I'd actually rather have extremely frequent updates that are done mostly at random rather than attempts to create balance. Just nerf some overpowered stuff, buff a bunch of other stuff, repeat the process a few days later.

darkknightkain · Jan 12, 2010, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

This. I'd actually rather have extremely frequent updates that are done mostly at random rather than attempts to create balance. Just nerf some overpowered stuff, buff a bunch of other stuff, repeat the process a few days later.

Oh god, please don't.

Skill SHAKE-UP =/= Skill Balance

Doing things at random all you are going to get is just a totally unstable/unplayable game.

The Drunkard · Jan 12, 2010, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkknightkain

Oh god, please don't.

Skill SHAKE-UP =/= Skill Balance

Doing things at random all you are going to get is just a totally unstable/unplayable game.

Don't quote me on this, but I thought that someone from the TC said they were planning a shake up with the next skill balance.

With a lot more people reviewing the proposed update, I'll have to save my opinion until the update actually comes.

Zahr Dalsk · Jan 12, 2010, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkknightkain

Skill SHAKE-UP =/= Skill Balance

You thick or something?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

I'd actually rather have extremely frequent updates that are done mostly at random rather than attempts to create balance.

Anet fails at balance anyways so why don't they focus more on just helping keep the game fresh?

Darth The Xx · Jan 12, 2010, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Is there a reason we can't have like half now and half when its "ready" at this point something is better than nothing. By next month we should've had like what, 3 skill balances?

Yawgmoth · Jan 12, 2010, 06:06 AM // 06:06

I understand that the work is iterative and test crewe made it more complicated, but how about releasing a not fully perfected update this month and the complete one next month? Even if you won't get everything you wanted into it, it still won't be worse than most skill updates you did in the past. Unless for those 4+ months you've been doing nothing about it...

Apok Omen · Jan 12, 2010, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

So I know some of you are waiting anxiously for the next skill balance. Let me just take a few moments to talk about the challenges we're facing with this particular skill balance. We are involving the Test Krewe in this balance. They've really been digging deep into skill discussions, and the involvement of the Test Krewe has added more cycles to the skill balance process. This is to be expected. When you invite a large group of people into the process and solicit and discuss their feedback, it will take more time. Secondly, skill balance (like many aspects of game design) is an iterative process, and one where both the Test Krewe and the Live Team are learning, streamlining, and improving on, in terms of how best to deliver and take in feedback. The winter holiday break hit, and there was some downtime for that. Finally, you all know that we do not change skills before the MAT. The Live Team and Test Krewe are working earnestly on this skill balance, and the Team knows that you've been waiting for it.

This is bull.

All of it.

Let me clarify; it's honest, but fails in almost every category of skill balance.

Let me also clarify my stance on the Live Team thus far: I believe they are doing a fine job. Adding in new content instead of simply adding a chapter in the series and calling it 'new' was a great strategy. The April update, the UW spice-up, even the costumes. They are also working more diligently on a short staff, which was not a problem in this case. Alot of small groups of people do great, even significantly better than larger groups. To quote someone from something: "People are stupid; a person is smart."

But the Test Krewe was a complete failure from the moment it was thought up. A dev team's job is to be involved with the community on a quality level. They feed off the community's reaction to content, figure out what needs to be improved, fixed, taken out, and added. They put their heart and soul into it, as well as the community's. Sad to say, however, it is the dev's job and their job only to decide what is to be altered, not the community's.

The community serves as a group of constantly unsatisfied customers. They want EVERYTHING handed to them in a silver platter in the hands of a god. But the dev team always knows better. Why? Because they made the game. They know its in's and out's. They fondled with it, shared with it, nurtured it, cheated on it, payed alimony to it, and reunited with it. Not the community. The community grabbed it, had a one night stand with it, and either tossed it aside without breakfast or kept it in their little black book for later. They treated it like a hooker, and thus cannot have an administrative power over it.

Guess what? Anet's Live Team gave in.

Instead of continuing to nerf the living daylights out of anything OP in this game, like they were beginning to do at the end of summer, they took a break and began to turn the job over to American Idol contestants (Test Krewe).

Is their intention pure? Do they want to revive the game to what it used to be while putting more into it? Yes! But involving a select group of players to basically do what they people in the balance forums did AND give them testing rights was not the right way to do this. Why? Because it sent the message to the whole community that they are only listening to a certain group of players instead of the rest of us.

In fact, the reason why preview weekends were succesful is because it involved the whole community in the testing process, who gave their input and abused the crap out of OP skills in obs mode. When Anet gave us a preview of the EotN skills, we instantly figured out what was bad and they updated it. Easy as pie.

Another thing I want to clear up is that the Live Team had 4 months to do an update. 4. Not counting the winter break. And Linsey told us she would give us a preview a month ahead of time, which was what made me believe in the bimonthly skill updates in the first place. But, instead of doing something constructive with that time, you decided to hold auditions for testers and make the community feel left out.

Oh, and by the way, I know that Anet isn't even working on the skill updates. Right now, they are working on how to get rid of the interrupt bots in PvP. And the security thing, too.

Not attacking you guys or anything, I just believe in everything you were doing before the Test Krewe (I mean, c'mon, even the name of the group sounds unprofessional). Linsey, you were doing a great job at cleaning up Izzy's mess!

Default137 · Jan 12, 2010, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

So I know some of you are waiting anxiously for the next skill balance. Let me just take a few moments to talk about the challenges we're facing with this particular skill balance. We are involving the Test Krewe in this balance. They've really been digging deep into skill discussions, and the involvement of the Test Krewe has added more cycles to the skill balance process. This is to be expected. When you invite a large group of people into the process and solicit and discuss their feedback, it will take more time. Secondly, skill balance (like many aspects of game design) is an iterative process, and one where both the Test Krewe and the Live Team are learning, streamlining, and improving on, in terms of how best to deliver and take in feedback. The winter holiday break hit, and there was some downtime for that. Finally, you all know that we do not change skills before the MAT. The Live Team and Test Krewe are working earnestly on this skill balance, and the Team knows that you've been waiting for it.

Thanks for the info Regina! Its nice to know whats going on every now and then.

Darth The Xx · Jan 12, 2010, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

snip

QFT I totally agree with Apok here.

I'm gonna be really disappointed if the update comes out and there are few random changes like we've seen in the past. The longer this gets dragged out, the higher people's expectations become and the more they will be disappointed when the update finally comes.

Axel Zinfandel · Jan 12, 2010, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

Snip

Uhh, you're speaking as if the Test Krewe has the final word or something.

The way I understand it, the Live team comes up with the skill balance ideas, bounces it off the Test Krewe, lets them tinker around with the skills in actual play, then give their feedback as to what could be better, what is potentially OP about the skills, ect.

In all, the Live Team still has the final say, and Frankly, with the amount of people on the team, and them working on an entirely new game along with security issues and regular stuff over the years, it's no surprise that the team has become detached from the current state of the game.

So naturally, since they aren't gods and can to 1000 things at once, they got a crew together that actually knows more about the current state of the game to help bounce advise.

Time can only tell how well the Test Krewe will effect balances, but I like the fact that Anet can admit their flaws and work around them.

That being said, I think there's been way more then enough time here with the skills. 5+ month gap between skill balances are absolutely ridiculous, and yet another delay (which is what I assume from Regina's post) is not a good sign.