Curse

Greedy Gus · Dec 19, 2009, 11:10 AM // 11:10

What are so many people farming gw pve for this many years into the game?

BlackSephir · Dec 19, 2009, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meridon

My point here was that I'm tired of Assassins who come on Guru to complain about the future nerf to the only skill they know how to properly play the game and farm with, and then think that if they can't farm anymore with SF, nothing else is allowed to do so either.

Pathetic. If you knew how to read you'd know that I'm in favour of nerfing both SF and 600 smite and I'm not even hiding it. But apparently the fact that I have "A" next to my profession on guru profile makes you rage, see red and can't think.
So go ahead, rage so more.

Meridon · Dec 19, 2009, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Pathetic. If you knew how to read you'd know that I'm in favour of nerfing both SF and 600 smite and I'm not even hiding it.

Please, do quote me on the part where I stated that you were not in favor of nerfing both SF and 600/Smite. If you know how to read you can not quote anything. Calling Guru users who don't want to see 600/smite nerfed in the exact same way without dignity, could even be classed as trolling, since you haven't provided any valid arguments to support your statement. Simply stating "fair treatment" isn't a valid argument.

Quote:

But apparently the fact that I have "A" next to my profession on guru profile makes you rage, see red and can't think.
So go ahead, rage so more.

Appearantly, you have a have a hard time recognizing the symptoms of raging, and make false statements about my state of mind. If this was an attempt of you to troll, it has been rather unsuccesful. Until you have provided a valid reason in terms of game balance why you think 600/Smite should be nerfed, your opinion will be dismissed as a simple way of revenge for having your favorite farm skill nerfed. Again, you haven't simply given any reason on why.

At least support your opinion with arguments for crying out loud.

Abedeus · Dec 19, 2009, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

What are so many people farming gw pve for this many years into the game?

Armors, I guess.

Bobby2 · Dec 19, 2009, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meridon

Appearantly, you have a have a hard time recognizing the symptoms of raging, and make false statements about my state of mind. If this was an attempt of you to troll, it has been rather unsuccesful. Until you have provided a valid reason in terms of game balance why you think 600/Smite should be nerfed, your opinion will be dismissed as a simple way of revenge for having your favorite farm skill nerfed. Again, you haven't simply given any reason on why.

At least support your opinion with arguments for crying out loud.

Bolded to better express my anger

BlackSephir · Dec 19, 2009, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meridon

Please, do quote me on the part where I stated that you were not in favor of nerfing both SF and 600/Smite.

I guess you smart-butt comment was just for show? Here, let me quote it for you.

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Assassins- Guaranteed to have a neutral and unprejudiced perspective in the farming debate, as always.

And that's after I made fun of people who want to nerf sf but not 600.
I guess that wasn't neutral enough for you, huh?

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Until you have provided a valid reason in terms of game balance why you think 600/Smite should be nerfed, your opinion will be dismissed as a simple way of revenge for having your favorite farm skill nerfed. Again, you haven't simply given any reason on why.

Are you insane? You dismiss my opinion because it's "not based on any argument" and you try to tell me that my favourite farm skill is SF? Or that I even have favourite farm skill?
Oh wow, that's mighty dumb but it looks like I might have some fun with you.
Until you have provided a valid reason and proof as to why do you think that I do in fact have a favourite farm skill and that it's Shadow Form, your opinion will be dismissed as a simple way of revenge for showing you can't comprehend written text.

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At least support your opinion with arguments for crying out loud.

It looks like pages and pages of reasons in this thread and in many earlier ones aren't enough.
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Category:G...farming_builds
# Build:Team - 600/Smite Raven's Point
# Build:Team - 600/Smite Rragar's Menagerie
# Build:Team - 600/Smite SoO
# Build:Team - 600/Smite UW
# Build:Team - 600/Smite Vloxen
Build:Team - MQSC Luxon FFF
# Build:Team - 600 Rit/Smite
# Build:Team - 600/Smite Catacombs Of Kathandrax
# Build:Team - 600/Smite CoF
# Build:Team - 600/Smite FoW
# Build:Team - 600/Smite Heart of the Shiverpeaks
# Build:Team - 600/Smite Oola's Lab
# Build:Team - 600/Smite Ooze Pit

It's all fine!

Axeman002 · Dec 19, 2009, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Category:G...farming_builds
# Build:Team - 600/Smite Raven's Point
# Build:Team - 600/Smite Rragar's Menagerie
# Build:Team - 600/Smite SoO
# Build:Team - 600/Smite UW
# Build:Team - 600/Smite Vloxen
Build:Team - MQSC Luxon FFF
# Build:Team - 600 Rit/Smite
# Build:Team - 600/Smite Catacombs Of Kathandrax
# Build:Team - 600/Smite CoF
# Build:Team - 600/Smite FoW
# Build:Team - 600/Smite Heart of the Shiverpeaks
# Build:Team - 600/Smite Oola's Lab
# Build:Team - 600/Smite Ooze Pit

It's all fine!

Dont forget u can still...

Farm UW
DTSC
vanquish pretty much everywhere

but yeah its not as OP as perma...MY ARSE!

Anonymous IXl · Dec 19, 2009, 02:15 PM // 14:15

I dont mind the nerfs because im out of PvE mostly... BUT... If you nerfed R/A's for PvP... That would be great.

Kaleban · Dec 19, 2009, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

What are so many people farming gw pve for this many years into the game?

ANet SHOULD be jumping for joy that there is this much outcry on just one forum over a skill nerf that affects easy farming.

It means there's a significant portion of people either still playing PvE (edit - this was supposed to be PvE, I just type too fast lol), or there's still "new blood" in terms of GW sales, people are still picking up the game and playing PvE.

Just because many people here have been around since 2005/2006 doesn't mean there aren't new people to the game. My brother for example just picked up Nightfall and EoTN last week.

In any case, catering to the minority (hardcore PvP) and sacrificing the majority (casual PvE) is a surefire way to lose business. Which is why the news posted by Regina seems so bass ackward, nerfing of popular PvE farming builds while worrying about high end PvP (GvG). As well, the buffing of underused attribute lines on the Warrior seems rather foolish when taken in the light of Mesmers, Rangers, Paragons and Dervishes all being massively underpowered and underused.

For many, ANet's direction is confounding any sense of logical direction, and generates a lot of worry over the future of the game and its sequel.

DreamWind · Dec 19, 2009, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

ANet SHOULD be jumping for joy that there is this much outcry on just one forum over a skill nerf that affects easy farming.

It means there's a significant portion of people either still playing PvP

No it doesn't...far from it in fact. The PvP community is dead. If you notice, 99% of the people talking about skill balances now are whiners about farming builds. It has almost nothing to do with PvP anymore, because the majority of real PvPers gave up any hope of balance since Nightfall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

In any case, catering to the minority (hardcore PvP) and sacrificing the majority (casual PvE) is a surefire way to lose business.

LoL. Which is why the PvP community is dead and the farming community is thriving? Please think this through.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

For many, ANet's direction is confounding any sense of logical direction, and generates a lot of worry over the future of the game and its sequel.

PvP players have been saying this for years. Welcome to the club.

Krill · Dec 19, 2009, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

What are so many people farming gw pve for this many years into the game?

PvE is very, very srs bsns.

QueenofDeath · Dec 19, 2009, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

# Shadow Form – Shadow Form is a formidable build, providing blanket protection against both attacks and spells. The developers and Test Krewe are taking a look at a couple of options, including reworking the skill from a fundamental level.
# Possible Changes to 600 Smite – The effects of this build on the game are less pronounced than other extreme farming builds, however it operates on the same basic premise of making a character invulnerable all of the time. The developers are looking at changes to some of the skills in this build.

Yessssssssssssssssssss stompage of Shadow Form and 600 Smite cometh. I just might come back and play once they nerf these never should have been allowed builds in the first place. Bravo for Anet seeing the light.

)

own age myname · Dec 19, 2009, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Category:G...farming_builds
# Build:Team - 600/Smite Raven's Point
# Build:Team - 600/Smite Rragar's Menagerie
# Build:Team - 600/Smite SoO
# Build:Team - 600/Smite UW
# Build:Team - 600/Smite Vloxen
Build:Team - MQSC Luxon FFF
# Build:Team - 600 Rit/Smite
# Build:Team - 600/Smite Catacombs Of Kathandrax
# Build:Team - 600/Smite CoF
# Build:Team - 600/Smite FoW
# Build:Team - 600/Smite Heart of the Shiverpeaks
# Build:Team - 600/Smite Oola's Lab
# Build:Team - 600/Smite Ooze Pit

It's all fine!

Unlike SF; 600/smite takes skill, and is fun.

Mustache Mayhem · Dec 19, 2009, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogusDude

While its ok for the do gooders and pvpers to applaud the upcoming nerfs i hope anet are ready for the backlash that will follow. You can say, stop whining or go play another game but the reality is, many will, infact too many will and then it'll be you guys back to complaining the games dying again.

From the majority of people i see in pve they actually enjoy alot of the SF 600/smite stuff. Hear that "ENJOY" that means we have fun with it. Unless these nerfs are replaced with something that is gonna blow us away and keep us entertained then the exodus will begin, which will be a shame, as our guild, 1000 or so 30+ members, has done a pretty good job at maintaining numbers with all the new games that came out in 2009.

The game is coming to the end of its shelf life now gearing up to GW2, things like SF and 600/smite etc give us old timers something to enjoy while we stick it out for the wait. The update to UW i applaud. I never bothered with the old UWSC but i really enjoy what you've done with it now. DO something similar to FoW and change the mobs around in dungeons and the other elite areas and you'll get a much better reaction that what your suggesting atm.

The game is far too big and spread out with way too much to do to think about going back to basics. I'd like to see more different ways of doing things like buffing up other chars, changes to dungeons and elite areas along with normal areas but obviously thats too much work, might aswell kop out and nerf what we have now.

Personally theres nothing you can do to the game to encourage me to get involved in pvp (the following people who are about to flame this post are the perfect example of why not). And i have no intention of going back 6 hour missions with half the team going afk and rage quitting.

In my eyes pve and farming is currently more FUN than its ever been and i'm a 4 year+ 10k hour+ and pretty well known for my farming abilities with every class (look me up on YT). Currently very pessimistic and disappointed at the suggestions i see so far and really hoping i'm proved wrong and you come up with something better than messing with hammers. Your far too concerned with "balancing" when the games at the point where your priorities should be security and holding onto us until GW2. I can survive without perma and 600 but its gonna take a large slice of my fun out of the game for me.

=] that's exactly how I feel- guess let the lowbies do their 2+ hour clears XD failboats always win in the end because of their numbers.. gaming has gone downhill last few years anyways

Rekliss · Dec 19, 2009, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voltaic Ectoplasm

All the nerfs are killing the game imo....... after the nerfs have been finished we will have no skills left to use :P

That pretty much sums up all of the whiny ass ppl. If you reverted all the nerfs, then alot of classes can tank instead of trying to come up with another tank and have it nerfed. All classes can be killed in one way or another, and time and time again, its the players that dont have the ability to farm that complain; and last time i checked, thats called "learning how to do it" or buy the right campaign and get with the program.

If SF nerf, need to increase the running game (Dash need 7 second recharge, and need to lower the recharge on dark escape. if you're gonna balance, need to balance the WHOLE equation) to make things still manageable. the assassin is supposed to be fast and hit hard.

lishi · Dec 19, 2009, 06:40 PM // 18:40

With a SF team i managed to run SoO in about 20 minute, i don't think 600 can do in less then 50( a good one)

600 Overpowered? yes, it will nerfed? yes
But on the same level of SF, don't lie to yourself.

Vann Borakul · Dec 19, 2009, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

I'm not sure where you're going with this, your statements in your second paragraph directly contradict those of the first.

Suffice to say, I'm not advocating mindless self indulgence as the only path to fun. In contrast to those for nerfing and exclusion, I am for ALL playstyles. You wanna permasin speedclear? Have at it. 600/Smite some dungeons? Go you. Setup a balanced team of players to conquer DoA in non-PvX gimmicky style? More power to you. Vanquish all three campaigns with Discordway? Let the fun begin.

I don't care how others play, which is why I'm for buffing underused classes to bring them up to the level of the War/Ele/Mo trinity, and if SF must be nerfed so be it, but the Sin needs some re-work then to be usable in PUG play.

And don't let the elitists fool you, PUG play is and SHOULD be an important part of any online cooperative game. It allows the casual gamers, the guys who log a couple of hours a week, to get online and accomplish something, which keeps them involved in the game, rather than spamming LFG of their under-appreciated build in any given outpost, mission or otherwise.

Meta builds exist because the game is horribly designed from the ground up. Its interesting you bring up Diablo. Diablo 2 for example will be ten years old next June, and yet I could log on right now and still find plenty of people playing. Its longevity, despite its small size in comparison to GW or WoW is due to being free to play, consistent updates over its lifetime, even into its "dog" years, and most importantly, randomization, especially in Hell difficulty.

You'd think ANet would take SOME inspiration away from that. Games that last offer replayability, which GW has none of. There's no difference in the campaigns regardless of what profession you roll through it with, each monster will always have the same mods, the same vulnerabilities, and there are no surprises.

Every time you play Diablo 1 or 2, especially on BNet, the game experience differs due to different enemies, relative power and mods, etc. Even drops are randomized by treasure class, rather than the set drops that high end mobs and chests give in GW.

While I am happy to see that ANet continues to take an interest in their flagship product, the ham-hands approach to it is disheartening, and does not bode well for the design of GW2. If they can't get ten base professions balanced, how will they possibly balance whatever number of professions across five different races? Even assuming that only the Warrior, Mage and Healer professions are the only ones introduced on launch for example, that's 15 separate possible combinations, not including any further customization such as secondary professions or cross-classing.

In the end equation, what will be, will be. Que sera sera and all that. Its just that I wish that this game, which held such promise on launch, has very much failed to ignite my imagination or hold my interest. My only reason for re-installing recently was to play with my brother who picked it up, had he not there's zero chance I would have gotten back into the game. As it is, I'm playing Oblivion again, and he's playing Supreme Commander. The "polish" of Guild Wars wears very thin when there's no substance beneath.

I don't see how they are contradicting.

I don't care how others play, but at the same time, certain things should not be. There has to be a determined value of ideal balance. Lots of people look at a profession and say that it should be as good as this other profession. You can't use that relation. You need to compare them all to the ideal location of balance, not each other. Addition and subtraction coexist. You can't just buff weak classes up to the others.

The way this game turned out, most classes are above that. This game was never designed for good PvE. Then they found out that most players wanted PvE. Panic time. Now they have to keep lining up a wall of bricks on an uneven surface and hope that it will eventually even out. It never did. In fact, 3/4ths of the wall is twice as high as the rest!

It's true that this game is far too exploitable. You can effectively beat anything before you even start it just because of preexisting static knowledge. Factor that with how much stronger the players are now and you have poorly designed PvE.

Kaleban · Dec 19, 2009, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vann Borakul

I don't see how they are contradicting.

I don't care how others play, but at the same time, certain things should not be.

First contradiction.

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There has to be a determined value of ideal balance.

Channeling Plato are we?

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Lots of people look at a profession and say that it should be as good as this other profession. You can't use that relation.

Sorry, but that is what balance IS. Balance is such that the utility of one class's skills are just as much as any other, given the right situation. Where the problem lies is that the situation in GW is always composed in such a way that the onle necessary classes are nuking, tanking and heal/prot. Which eliminates more or less half the available classes in the game as potential candidates, when compared to the likes of the Warrior, Ele and Monk.

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You need to compare them all to the ideal location of balance, not each other. Addition and subtraction coexist.

The game does not exist in a vacuum. There is no Plato's Form of "balance" from which all else is derived. Balance is relative to each class, a Warrior is terribly underpowered in healing, which is made up for by the Monk. Conversely, hybrid or utility classes like Rangers and Dervishes are underpowered in both respects, because of the skill and party system requiring specialized roles, and penalizing "jack of all trades" types.

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You can't just buff weak classes up to the others.

Why not? This is often said but never explained. If the end result is class balance, then why does it matter how they are balanced, as long as they are?

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The way this game turned out, most classes are above that. This game was never designed for good PvE. Then they found out that most players wanted PvE. Panic time. Now they have to keep lining up a wall of bricks on an uneven surface and hope that it will eventually even out. It never did. In fact, 3/4ths of the wall is twice as high as the rest!

Frivolous comparisons. ANet knew very well that PvE would be a huge component, which is why when the game was released there was this large patch of real estate called Tyria, with a long and involved campaign and gradual leveling system. By comparison, the PvP areas are minute. Fail argument fails. Hard.

Quote:

It's true that this game is far too exploitable. You can effectively beat anything before you even start it just because of preexisting static knowledge. Factor that with how much stronger the players are now and you have poorly designed PvE.

Again, how is this the fault of Shadowform or 600/Smite? Or could it be that the culprit is poorly designed EoTN skills along with consumables and other additions which were poorly designed, tested and implemented?

Nerfing skills which appear overpowered only when used in cooperation with other skills goes against the whole idea of building effective builds, which is what GW is BASED UPON! If everytime an effective build is discovered, a bunch of whiny emo babies cries about it and ANet nerfs it to Oblivion, then what are you left with? Auto-attack.

Lame.

Mad King Corn · Dec 19, 2009, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Nerfing 600 smite will alienate more players than the Soul Reaping Nerf or the Loot Scaling system...Bad idea! 600 is NOT invincability and does take some skill to use.

own age myname · Dec 19, 2009, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad King Corn

Nerfing 600 smite will alienate more players than the Soul Reaping Nerf or the Loot Scaling system...Bad idea! 600 is NOT invincability and does take some skill to use.

Recent example. I just died while 600ing, because I went into dream mode for like 3 seconds. Spirit Bond down, I'm dead.