Curse

Regina Buenaobra · Jan 26, 2010, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Hey everyone. A few changes emerged after testing over the weekend, and we'd like to share another preview with you:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...pdate_previews

zelgadissan · Jan 26, 2010, 02:08 AM // 02:08

So again, for those who cba to read:

- Mirror of Ice to 15 energy
- Cultist's Fervor: 1..5..6 energy, 25r, duration based on Soul Reaping (think MoI)
- Winter's Embrace to 10e, 15r
- Ride the Lightning to have aftercast like assassin shadow steps
- Anthem of Envy (PvP) to 6r, bonus damage to 10..20
- Glass Arrows (PvP) bonus damage to 5..12
- Keen Arrow (PvP) to 12r, +1..5 unconditional, +5..30 for critical
- Sloth Hunter's Shot (PvP) to 15r, +5..20 unconditional, +5..15 more conditional
- Marauder's Shot disable effect from 5 to 10
- all 1 second bow attacks will have a .5 second aftercast
- Precision Shot to +3..10
- Sundering and Penetrating Attacks in PvE get 3/4 activation
- Needling Shot to 3/4 activation, disables other attack skills 2 seconds
- Power Shot to normal speed but armor ignoring
- Crippling Shot arrows to move twice as fast
- Hunter's Shot to 1s activation
- Lightning Reflexes (PvP) to 45r
- Soldier's Fury to give Cracked Armor for 10s when shout or chant ends on you

EDIT: forgot to give thanks to Regina on appreciation day.

Martin Alvito · Jan 26, 2010, 02:25 AM // 02:25

OK, I stand corrected on my earlier comments. Now you're starting to get somewhere.

And I agree: thank you, Regina. We appreciate the heads up, and communication on this issue has been excellent. Credit where credit is due.

Xenex Xclame · Jan 26, 2010, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Wow, hate rangers much?

Karate Jesus · Jan 26, 2010, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

So again, for those who cba to read:

- Mirror of Ice to 15 energy
- Cultist's Fervor: 1..5..6 energy, 25r, duration based on Soul Reaping (think MoI)
- Winter's Embrace to 10e, 15r
- Ride the Lightning to have aftercast like assassin shadow steps
- Anthem of Envy (PvP) to 6r, bonus damage to 10..20
- Glass Arrows (PvP) bonus damage to 5..12
- Keen Arrow (PvP) to 12r, +1..5 unconditional, +5..30 for critical
- Sloth Hunter's Shot (PvP) to 15r, +5..20 unconditional, +5..15 more conditional
- Marauder's Shot disable effect from 5 to 10
- all 1 second bow attacks will have a .5 second aftercast
- Precision Shot to +3..10
- Sundering and Penetrating Attacks in PvE get 3/4 activation
- Needling Shot to 3/4 activation, disables other attack skills 2 seconds
- Power Shot to normal speed but armor ignoring
- Crippling Shot arrows to move twice as fast
- Hunter's Shot to 1s activation
- Lightning Reflexes (PvP) to 45r
- Soldier's Fury to give Cracked Armor for 10s when shout or chant ends on you

EDIT: forgot to give thanks to Regina on appreciation day.

Buffs to Sundering/Penetrating Attacks (PvE) and a nerf to Quick Shot? lolwut?

Soldier's Fury getting Cracked Armor (in PvE)?

Well, I guess they really do want Paragons to only use Imbagon, and they must really hate all Ranger elites....some of that is so random. Doesn't Anet obs?

Revelations · Jan 26, 2010, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Basically undodgeable cripshot is pretty retarded. If anything it needs slightly longer crip time to compensate for everyone and their dog bringing rune + shield. Making it completely unavoidable is just dumbing down that bar - be it on your team or your opponents.

Martin Alvito · Jan 26, 2010, 02:41 AM // 02:41

The tradeoff with Crip Shot has always been brutal (unsustainable) energy investment in return for a guaranteed hit.

There is nothing wrong with strengthening its benefits. There is risk in watering down its drawback.

Revelations · Jan 26, 2010, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

The tradeoff with Crip Shot has always been brutal (unsustainable) energy investment in return for a guaranteed hit.

Except it has NEVER been a guaranteed hit. Until next update at least.

Removing the ability to dodge it is only going to mean another mechanic less to separate bad players from good ones.

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

There is risk in watering down its drawback.

Interesting that one of cripshot's drawbacks is that it can be dodged by decent players. It would seem you then agree with me?

Karate Jesus · Jan 26, 2010, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelations

Except it has NEVER been a guaranteed hit. Until next update at least.

Removing the ability to dodge it is only going to mean another mechanic less to separate bad players from good ones.

He meant that it couldn't be blocked. And how are you missing with Crip Shot? It's.....easy to hit with. Hell, it was a PvP staple skill for years.

Regulus X · Jan 26, 2010, 02:52 AM // 02:52

In summary: R.I.P. rangers and paragons [reason: GvG]

No B.Surge tone-down's going to make 4v4 meleers SCREAM for months to come.

Thanks for interacting with us though, Regina. It's the least we could possibly be thankful for despite wave after wave of game-killing nerfages.

Martin Alvito · Jan 26, 2010, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelations

Interesting that one of cripshot's drawbacks is that it can be dodged by decent players. It would seem you then agree with me?

If you were clicking Crip Shot in a situation where energy mattered AND where you weren't close enough to make it undodgeable...um...yeah. What Karate Jesus said.

Personally, I am a meh Ranger. I'm old (for a competitive gamer), my reaction time is blah, and my connection is poor. The best thing I ever did as a Ranger was bag Remstar and Custodian on a split, and this only happened because they screwed up badly in our NPCs. Just putting it in perspective for you.

However, I know many quality Rangers, and I have had the privilege of playing alongside them. I can't recall seeing a quality Ranger ever use Crip Shot in a situation where it could legitimately be dodged, unless the target was running away on a split.

This may have some small effect on the ability of a split to flee an engagement. Otherwise, it's not going to matter much. The key attribute of the balanced form of Crip Shot was always that it was too expensive to maintain in the long term. Making it a touch harder to dodge is negligible. If it encourages its use at the margin, great.

EDIT: OK, I now see what you're saying. Think about it this way - you now have to be that much further away to bail on a split. Other than that, bad players are bad and good players beat them anyway.

Revelations · Jan 26, 2010, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

He meant that it couldn't be blocked. And how are you missing with Crip Shot? It's.....easy to hit with. Hell, it was a PvP staple skill for years.

I'll explain my reasoning a little less ambiguously.

I agree with you entirely, decent players had no trouble hitting with cripshot - which is not going to change with this update, hence it is somewhat irrelevant.

However, my point is that one of the drawbacks of cripshot is that bad players have difficulty hitting good players with it. The update will change this fact, because even fired from bad position with the wrong bow type it will be effectively unavoidable, except at extreme range.

Basically, this change will cater to bad players, whereas decent players will be - for all intents and purposes - unaffected by it. Hence my dislike for the proposal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Other than that, bad players are bad and good players beat them anyway.

This is partly true. Except every change like this is going to make it less so. I can live with this one change, and don't expect it to affect things all that much. But I much prefer a game where terrible play gets terrible results, rather than mediocre ones.

EDIT: It should probably be mentioned that - aside from the above mentioned change - I believe this update is a massive step in the right direction. The second set of changes were a nice welcome from the disappointment of the gaps in the first.

Dzjudz · Jan 26, 2010, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Arf now my E/A AP caller with winter's embrace / glowing ice isn't energy efficient any more

.

Apok Omen · Jan 26, 2010, 04:22 AM // 04:22

If Anet wants players to use Cripshot over Melshot, or at least make them equal, all they have to do is reduce the recharge from to 1 second. Simple as that. Everything else, I'm cool with.

FoxBat · Jan 26, 2010, 04:53 AM // 04:53

All the bow changes feel a little overkill - a 1-1.5 second aftercast akin to interrupts would've been easier than gutting everything like this. Oh well.

This sorta implies the other blood changes aren't going through yet, but they weren't much of a threat to the mAT anyway.

Ariovist Lynxkind · Jan 26, 2010, 05:11 AM // 05:11

I seriously dont get this change to Needling Shot. It is good the way it is, driving home the kill but not exactly op in the damage, so why change it?

Zahr Dalsk · Jan 26, 2010, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

So again, for those who cba to read:

- Mirror of Ice to 15 energy
- Cultist's Fervor: 1..5..6 energy, 25r, duration based on Soul Reaping (think MoI)
- Winter's Embrace to 10e, 15r
- Ride the Lightning to have aftercast like assassin shadow steps
- Anthem of Envy (PvP) to 6r, bonus damage to 10..20
- Glass Arrows (PvP) bonus damage to 5..12
- Keen Arrow (PvP) to 12r, +1..5 unconditional, +5..30 for critical
- Sloth Hunter's Shot (PvP) to 15r, +5..20 unconditional, +5..15 more conditional
- Marauder's Shot disable effect from 5 to 10
- all 1 second bow attacks will have a .5 second aftercast
- Precision Shot to +3..10
- Sundering and Penetrating Attacks in PvE get 3/4 activation
- Needling Shot to 3/4 activation, disables other attack skills 2 seconds
- Power Shot to normal speed but armor ignoring
- Crippling Shot arrows to move twice as fast
- Hunter's Shot to 1s activation
- Lightning Reflexes (PvP) to 45r
- Soldier's Fury to give Cracked Armor for 10s when shout or chant ends on you

EDIT: forgot to give thanks to Regina on appreciation day.

I miss the days when we'd get that sort of update in about a week or two.

Ariena Najea · Jan 26, 2010, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Thank you for the awesome communication on these skill balances!

Quote:

Needling Shot will be given the 3/4 second activation time in both PvE and PvP, but it will disable other attack skills for 2 second to prevent its use in attack combos with other skills

This is a great change for Needling Shot which will allow Rangers to pressure more effectively. There is a problem though, disabling Attack Skills for 2 seconds prevents the usage of key skills such as Distracting Shot, Savage Shot, and Magebane Shot. If these are disabled, the Ranger is far less able to pressure effectively. Perhaps instead of disabling Attack Skills, what about negating damage from attack skills for the next two seconds instead? Meaning you can still auto-attack and disrupt (albeit without any potential damage bonus from Savage), but not effectively finish a spike.

Quote:

Soldier's Fury will be given a similar downside as Aggressive Refrain. "Whenever a shout or chant ends on you, you suffer from Cracked Armor (10 seconds)." The purpose of this change is to force Paragons to make a choice between defense (higher armor) or offense (increased attack speed). We do not expect PvE Paragons to be harmed by this change; so we're letting it apply to both PvE and PvP.

I don't think that Soldier's Fury is as much the problem as key Command skills such as "Stand Your Ground!". Changes need to be made to prevent chaining from multiple Paragons. This is not a new theme, and making a change now to fix some of these shouts to either make them less viable for chaining, or changing some of the skills' functionality will prevent the need for some rebalancing in the future. A good change would be to make the skills more effective, but decrease the duration (similar to the old Incoming! but far less extreme). For example, change Stand Your Ground! to +40 (an approximately 25% further bonus versus armor-based damage), but decrease the duration to 0...4...6.

Again, thank you for the excellent level of communication.

Greedy Gus · Jan 26, 2010, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Ranger changes being considered 'overkill' means your position is that rangers doing big damage with spammy push-button attack skills is legitimate. I think that's a degenerate role for them, and wouldn't mind even if these skills were removed completely.

Regulus X · Jan 26, 2010, 05:26 AM // 05:26

They're basically chopping ranger's d***'s off completely with this update. I feel sorry for all you ranger fans out there.