Curse

moriz · Dec 11, 2009, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Your argument fails here, because of your continued insistence at it being a cheat and godmode. Wrong.

Fail. Not a cheat, I can put it on my bar without violating the EULA. Also, how much skill does it take to press 1-8?

Anyone can play Guild Wars, unless they're paraplegic or mentally deficient, and even they can roll their foreheads and play Wammos effectively. Winning the mAT is a facetious issue, since SF can't be maintained in mAT now can it? Talk about grasping at straws.

And those same players should not begrudge the casual players the desire to dress up their characters, it is only a game after all, right?

@Zahr, exactly how many spacesims has Bioware come out with. Mass Effect is a RPG, so you probably got confused, easy to understand its an awesome game. And to my knowledge they've never developed a flight sim, so your arguments are invalid as well.

Also, I just logged in, no changes to SF, Deadly Paradox or Glyph of Swiftness. Looks like the whiny baby crowd for once did not get its way...

how is shadow form not a cheat? it makes you invincible in almost every instance in the game, negating most of the game design in the process. that's the very definition of a cheat. it's the same thing as typing TGM in oblivion/fallout 3. that command is within the EULA, but it's still a cheat.

and really, if GW is as simple as pressing 1-8, then by all means win the mAT. after all, it's just pressing 1-8 now is it? until you actually manage to do so, your argument is false.

lastly, if you really want to play dressup, you don't need SF to achieve it, nor do you need to play any of the elite areas. so taking away SF won't stop you from playing dressup. there goes your argument.

you know, i really don't give a rat's ass what you think tbh. you are not a casual player, you are a BAD player who cannot play without a crutch. if anet keeps their word, you'll soon be a BAD player without a crutch. bad players fail, whether they are hardcore or casual. removing SF will make the likes of you continue to fail, just like you are supposed to. if you are not a bad player and actually CAN play without using SF as a crutch, then you shouldn't have any issue with it being nerfed.

vandevere · Dec 11, 2009, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

how is shadow form not a cheat? it makes you invincible in almost every instance in the game, negating most of the game design in the process. that's the very definition of a cheat. it's the same thing as typing TGM in oblivion/fallout 3. that command is within the EULA, but it's still a cheat.

and really, if GW is as simple as pressing 1-8, then by all means win the mAT. after all, it's just pressing 1-8 now is it? until you actually manage to do so, your argument is false.

lastly, if you really want to play dressup, you don't need SF to achieve it, nor do you need to play any of the elite areas. so taking away SF won't stop you from playing dressup. there goes your argument.

you know, i really don't give a rat's ass what you think tbh. you are not a casual player, you are a BAD player who cannot play without a crutch. if anet keeps their word, you'll soon be a BAD player without a crutch. bad players fail, whether they are hardcore or casual. removing SF will make the likes of you continue to fail, just like you are supposed to. if you are not a bad player and actually CAN play without using SF as a crutch, then you shouldn't have any issue with it being nerfed.

I've bolded that bit because, even though I rarely weigh in on such things as this, that statement is one of the most baldly-faced elitist comments I've ever heard.

Listen carefully.

No one-absolutely No one, is supposed to fail. As many people have said over all the pages of this thread, in PVE we don't always want to face time-consuming, difficult challenges. Sometimes we just want to have fun...

I know...horrific, ain't it? Folks playing GW just to have fun; whatever is the world coming to?

Sometimes, succeeding at a hair-raising challenge can be fun. But, other times, after a hard day's work, being abused by customers,the boss, or various and sundry things in the workday world, you just want to pwn hapless monsters.

The thi9ng I love about this game, the thing that the elitists are threatening, is that there is room for both modes, for relaxing monster slaying, and super difficult and dangerous stuff too; and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Relax. Chill. Let everyone play the game they want to play.

moriz · Dec 11, 2009, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Quote:

've bolded that bit because, even though I rarely weigh in on such things as this, that statement is one of the most baldly-faced elitist comments I've ever heard.

Listen carefully.

No one-absolutely No one, is supposed to fail. As many people have said over all the pages of this thread, in PVE we don't always want to face time-consuming, difficult challenges. Sometimes we just want to have fun...

I know...horrific, ain't it? Folks playing GW just to have fun; whatever is the world coming to?

Sometimes, succeeding at a hair-raising challenge can be fun. But, other times, after a hard day's work, being abused by customers,the boss, or various and sundry things in the workday world, you just want to pwn hapless monsters.

The thi9ng I love about this game, the thing that the elitists are threatening, is that there is room for both modes, for relaxing monster slaying, and super difficult and dangerous stuff too; and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Relax. Chill. Let everyone play the game they want to play.

there are certain areas that not everyone is meant to succeed in. it's the way it is. if you really don't have the ability to play those areas, then i RESPECTFULLY suggest you not to play them. using a gamebreakingly powerful build, which should not exist in the first place to circumvent that isn't the issue.

i'll repeat this one more time (and hopefully the last time): not everyone is supposed to succeed in elite areas. these areas are designed for the most dedicated and hardcore players, to get MARGINALLY better rewards. you are NOT MISSING ANYTHING by not playing them. the game does not owe you the right to play those areas, just because you've paid $40 X number of campaigns/expansion. if you truly just want to hang back and kill monsters, then play the other ~96% of the game, and leave the parts you can't handle to the people who can.

relax. chill. let everyone play the parts of the game they have the ability to.

Kaleban · Dec 11, 2009, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

how is shadow form not a cheat?

Its a skill. In the game. If you classify it as a cheat, then every other Elite skill is also a cheat.

Quote:

you know, i really don't give a rat's ass what you think tbh. you are not a casual player, you are a BAD player who cannot play without a crutch. if anet keeps their word, you'll soon be a BAD player without a crutch. bad players fail, whether they are hardcore or casual. removing SF will make the likes of you continue to fail, just like you are supposed to. if you are not a bad player and actually CAN play without using SF as a crutch, then you shouldn't have any issue with it being nerfed.

Somebody pee in your milk? So what you're saying is, is that ANet programmed their game to make certain a percentage of the paying playerbase cannot succeed? That seems like a horrible business model, and I'm sure that ANet did not intend that, its just elitist jerks like yourself that believe that to be the case. I'malso not a bad player, winning mAT does not indicate skill in PvE 'tard. I shy away from PvP because I like a relaxing gameplay experience that isn't full of teabagging buttheads.

I want to play my Sin in Elite areas with other players. No one will take a Moebius-DB sin, Palm Strike build, or any of the bazillion other combos. They want Perma-SF, just like a Warrior tank in DoA is expected to be a OB Flesh build, and not a 100 Blades Wammo.

Think before typing, it could help you out. On a side note, I just ran my bro on my PERMASIN, so apparently ANet does not agree with the whiny vocal minority.

Reformed · Dec 11, 2009, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

how is shadow form not a cheat?

We are going on 18 months of it's current, albeit slightly tweaked along the way, functionality. They knew exactly what this skill was capable of in concert with DP and GoS back during the mad rush of the first Planes Ectosin, IIRC sometime in May of 2008. They knew it was a "problem" within weeks and yet let it run all this time with just minor tweaks. Calling it a cheat is just outright hyperbole, everything has been done intentionally.

reaper with no name · Dec 11, 2009, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Its a skill. In the game. If you classify it as a cheat, then every other Elite skill is also a cheat.

Somebody pee in your milk? So what you're saying is, is that ANet programmed their game to make certain a percentage of the paying playerbase cannot succeed? That seems like a horrible business model, and I'm sure that ANet did not intend that, its just elitist jerks like yourself that believe that to be the case. I'malso not a bad player, winning mAT does not indicate skill in PvE 'tard. I shy away from PvP because I like a relaxing gameplay experience that isn't full of teabagging buttheads.

I want to play my Sin in Elite areas with other players. No one will take a Moebius-DB sin, Palm Strike build, or any of the bazillion other combos. They want Perma-SF, just like a Warrior tank in DoA is expected to be a OB Flesh build, and not a 100 Blades Wammo.

Think before typing, it could help you out. On a side note, I just ran my bro on my PERMASIN, so apparently ANet does not agree with the whiny vocal minority.

It's a skill that is clearly being used in a way in which it was never intended to be. It is an exploit. An abuse of the game's mechanics. A cheat.

Actually, Anet has publically stated that SF is being abused.

Also, yes, every game with a difficulty level setting is designed so that not all players will be able to succeed. That's what Hard Mode is. It is a challenge designed for the more skilled players. Easy and Normal modes are for the casual players who want an easy time.

High end teams won't take MSDB because SF is always better, and they believe that you'd have to be an idiot to not run it. And they're half right; you have to either run SF or intentionally gimp yourself. To be honest, I'm surprised any high-end teams let anything except SF sins in, because there's really no reason to ever play a warrior or whatever when you could just be a SF sin.

But anyway, if you truly believe that SF is ok for the game, that it's ok for players to have what for practical purposes amounts of invincibility, then go to Sardelac and suggest that every profession be allowed to maintain it. After all, if it's ok for assassins, it should be ok for everyone, right?

And while you're at it, if you think players are entitled to win simply because they played (without putting forth effort or skill), then go suggest players be given access to BAMPH.

Until you've done these two things, your argument contradicts your actions, and I will be forced to dismiss it as hypocrisy.

UnChosen · Dec 11, 2009, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

The problem, as I have already mentioned in this thread, is that the vast majority of people are stupid...not a fault of the game, a fault of nations allowing stupid people to breed.

Its a fault of the game for not flexible in catering to its majority audience. And because of that it also drags the intermediate players (people who actually like to pug when they're not playing with guilds/friends) like me down with it, because if the majority don't do a particular area because of the design, I am also left with no one to play with.

Also, part of the reason the majority of the player base is "stupid" is that there's no incentive to play smart when every non-end game areas have exactly the same reward attached. If Vizunah Squares, have the exact same reward as a realm of torment mission....do you think people are going to try to actually learn to do the harder mission effectively? NO!

Reducing the player base to guild + friends is NOT the solution.

mrvrod · Dec 11, 2009, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

There are 10 professions in this game.

Only 1 of them is worth using.

How is this not a problem?

Shadow Form is not a farming build. 55 is a farming build. You can farm the hell out of certain areas, but if you try to use it in general PvE, you fall flat on your face. That's the nature of farming builds. This is fine.

Shadow Form is an invincibility build. It is, for practical purposes, godmode. This is not good. This destroys all purpose in playing the game. Why play, if there's no risk of failure? Why have the other 9 professions, if SF is always superior? Why even have the assassin, really? You might as well just have a single class called "The Shadowformer", and only one elite, since that's the only one that is worth using in the game.

This is not right. Therefore, SF should be nerfed.

Then don't use it! You want to call it god-mode? Fine, let's go with that. How on any level does it hurt your enjoyment of the game for another person to be playing it in "god-mode". This is all about elitism and e-peen. Every argument against is just a different way of saying "you're not allowed to get the stuff I got, faster than I got it, it's NOT FAIR!!!!"

Yelling @ Cats · Dec 11, 2009, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

Its a fault of the game for not flexible in catering to its majority audience. And because of that it also drags the intermediate players (people who actually like to pug when they're not playing with guilds/friends) like me down with it, because if the majority don't do a particular area because of the design, I am also left with no one to play with.

Also, part of the reason the majority of the player base is "stupid" is that there's no incentive to play smart when every non-end game areas have exactly the same reward attached. If Vizunah Squares, have the exact same reward as a realm of torment mission....do you think people are going to try to actually learn to do the harder mission effectively? NO!

Reducing the player base to guild + friends is NOT the solution.

You are trying one of the more difficult missions in the game on hard mode...you should just be able to grab a random group of subpar players and complete it? In WoW or other MMO's, can you just grab a random group of people with no real synergy, no communication, and take down one of the more difficult raid bosses? Maybe once in a blue moon.

As for your reasoning why the player base is stupid...maybe it's because of overpowered skills like SF? Why get better if you can do the entire game with a single character? Maybe it is to do with the fact that you can succeed at the normal game with terrible builds...like Mending Warriors. Maybe it is because people can succeed at most of the game by simply drooling on the keyboard.

Golgotha · Dec 11, 2009, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

how is shadow form not a cheat? it makes you invincible in almost every instance in the game, negating most of the game design in the process. that's the very definition of a cheat.

No, that's the definition of poor design and adaption of the world on the part of the developers.

If the 90% of the monsters in GW relied on signets and touch skills and they created an elite skill that made a player invulnerable to those two types of skills, it still wouldn't be an overpowered skill by itself rather overpowered by the limitations of it's environment. Just as Shadow Form is overpowered due to the mob's skillbar rather than the Permasin's. It's a simple solution of buffing elite area mobs to combat it, just as they've done with almost every other major farming build over the years.

If it's a "cheat" or "godmode", by all means.. prove it by soloing the entire game with it. If not, do yourself and quit referring to it as such, it makes you look really, really out of touch. Hell, even with it's PvE incarnation it would get destroyed in PvP.

UnChosen · Dec 11, 2009, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

You are trying one of the more difficult missions in the game on hard mode...you should just be able to grab a random group of subpar players and complete it? In WoW or other MMO's, can you just grab a random group of people with no real synergy, no communication, and take down one of the more difficult raid bosses? Maybe once in a blue moon.

As for your reasoning why the player base is stupid...maybe it's because of overpowered skills like SF? Why get better if you can do the entire game with a single character? Maybe it is to do with the fact that you can succeed at the normal game with terrible builds...like Mending Warriors. Maybe it is because people can succeed at most of the game by simply drooling on the keyboard.

Nope....I should be able to grab a group of "sub par" players, fail 20 times before succeeding, and come out with more than 2k in my pocket. Preferably, every mission should have its own "very rare item" chest associated with it as well, giving people reason to actually do them again.

If the areas are worth failing over and over with pugs, then people would naturally keep trying. Already good people like guild groups and friend groups will just get icing on the cake.

This is what they should do ALONG with adjusting/nerfing whatever gimmicks that pops up.

FyrFytr998 · Dec 11, 2009, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

you need to accept that casual players are not meant to play areas that are designed to be "hardcore" content. accept that, and you'll be all the happier. after all, not everyone gets to be a heart surgeon; nor does everyone get to win the mATs. it takes a certain amount of dedication to become good at something. even then, at the end of the day, you really aren't missing much. after all, does the end reward from playing these areas actually make your character statistically better? no, it doesn't. therefore, it's not like you are missing out on essential content.

^^^This is comedy gold.^^^ (Either that, or you're delusional.)

So instead of creating higher level areas for everyone to test their skills and enjoy. You're ascertaining that these areas were in fact created for a select few "Hardcore" players by ANET? So tell me exactly what denotes oneself as being "Hardcore"? Better yet. How does one prove the level of their true hardcoreness? Does ANET send you a diploma and a toaster? I'm pretty sure it's proven through their shiny little armors, weapons, and e-wealth. Which loses it's luster when casual players can get at it with some "Power Gaming". Which further proves that if casual players aren't missing much, then why the need for all these shiny pretty trinkets the majority of you Leet players flaunt around? I mean if it's all about just having the satisfaction of beating the game straight up. Then surly there is no need for e-wealth and all it affords, am I right?

I'm not sure whether it's astonishing or just downright pathetic, just how much stock players put into their video game experiences. If I ever get to a point where I'm calling myself a "hardcore gamer". I'm going to tell my wife and kids to leave me. I'll quit my gratifying and well paying job as a firefighter. And I'm going to find a nice secluded corner somewhere and end myself before my leetness becomes too much a burden. Then again, virtual reality is about the only place where some people can be successful. So I can see defending the only thing you have in your lives?

It's an effin' game for crying out loud. I'm having fun. Why aren't you too?

reaper with no name · Dec 11, 2009, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrvrod

Then don't use it! You want to call it god-mode? Fine, let's go with that. How on any level does it hurt your enjoyment of the game for another person to be playing it in "god-mode". This is all about elitism and e-peen. Every argument against is just a different way of saying "you're not allowed to get the stuff I got, faster than I got it, it's NOT FAIR!!!!"

I would counter that with "every argument for keeping it is another way of saying 'I want to keep farming ectos easily and get this stuff easily'!".

Oh, and yes, SF is not fair. But not because of the farming it allows; because it's so much better than every other build out there. Think of the poor warriors and mesmers and rangers who might as well not exist in the game since a SF sin is always superior!

It hurts my enjoyment of the game because I like there to be some semblance of balance. And I like being able to play a character without constantly having to face the fact that no matter how well I optimize their build and equipment, there will never be any purpose in it, since SF will always be superior.

Oh, and you really shouldn't use that particular argument against me, because I have a grand total of less than 150k and one ecto to my name, and all my weapon skins across all of my characters are non-rare save for two, and none of my characters have elite armors or any sorts of rare items that would be worth anything significant. I'm probably one of the poorest people on GWG.

Oh, and once again, if you think SF is ok, then go suggest that all professions be given the perma. At least then the game would be fair. Oh, wait, didn't Anet try that already? Something called Ursan? Yeah, and it failed, because Warrior and Ranger Ursans were better than all other Ursans in every way, so there was no reason to play anything but them.

Also, let's not forget, your argument of "If you don't like it, don't use it" is equally valid when arguing that alien cyborg kungfu zombie nuns should be a playable class. Some players might enjoy it, I guess Anet should implement it, right? Those who don't like it don't have to use it.

While we're at it, let's give players access to BAMPH! If players don't like it, they don't have to use it, right? And let's give them machine guns, too! And tactical nuclear missiles that are mounted on satelites! And a shout called "RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO You!" that gives all the monsters -2000 armor! And a dildo sword skin! And a skill that lets you fart pink elephants that stomp on all the enemies for 300 chaos damage!

Don't like these ideas? Think they're terrible, immature, etc? Well, tough! If you don't like them, you don't have to use them! So there's no reason NOT to put them in the game! Therefore, these must be the best suggestions ever in the history of the game! Implement them NOW, Anet!

UnChosen · Dec 11, 2009, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Oh, and yes, SF is not fair. But not because of the farming it allows; because it's so much better than every other build out there. Think of the poor warriors and mesmers and rangers who might as well not exist in the game since a SF sin is always superior!

It hurts my enjoyment of the game because I like there to be some semblance of balance. And I like being able to play a character without constantly having to face the fact that no matter how well I optimize their build and equipment, there will never be any purpose in it, since SF will always be superior.

It also hurt my enjoyment, when I can't even enjoy certain areas because....its empty. Namely, EoTN dungeons and DoA, and everywhere else except UW. Before that, I can't enjoy anything except DoA Ursan + UW. Before that, I can't enjoy anything cuz a majority was doing solo/duo farming in UW.

Unbalanced game where I can play 99% of people >>>> Balanced game where I can only play with 1% of people, assuming they're not going to change anything other than skills.

Of course, the best solution is a balanced game where I can play with 100% of people, assuming they make more areas more attractive using various other methods other than skill nerfs.

Kaleban · Dec 11, 2009, 06:23 AM // 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

It's a skill that is clearly being used in a way in which it was never intended to be. It is an exploit. An abuse of the game's mechanics. A cheat.

And its been over a year and ANet can't figure out how to fix the only cheat skill eh? Right...

Quote:

Actually, Anet has publically stated that SF is being abused.

You mean abused like 600/Smite and OB Flesh builds in high end PvE? Oh ok.

Quote:

Also, yes, every game with a difficulty level setting is designed so that not all players will be able to succeed. That's what Hard Mode is. It is a challenge designed for the more skilled players. Easy and Normal modes are for the casual players who want an easy time.

Funnily enough, Elite areas in NM don't accept Sins unless they're perma, so your asserion is incorrect.

Quote:

High end teams won't take MSDB because SF is always better, and they believe that you'd have to be an idiot to not run it. And they're half right; you have to either run SF or intentionally gimp yourself. To be honest, I'm surprised any high-end teams let anything except SF sins in, because there's really no reason to ever play a warrior or whatever when you could just be a SF sin.

Who knows what their motivations are? But you're right, why intentionally gimp yourself in a game that is designed to funnel players into the most efficient builds?

Quote:

But anyway, if you truly believe that SF is ok for the game, that it's ok for players to have what for practical purposes amounts of invincibility, then go to Sardelac and suggest that every profession be allowed to maintain it. After all, if it's ok for assassins, it should be ok for everyone, right?

Shadowform is their skill, Spellbreaker is the monks, Obsidian Flesh in the Ele's and so on and so forth. Each class has methods for maintaining some form of tanking ability, even warriors have Gladiator's Stance. Obviously there are varying levels of efficacy, but that's to be expected in any game with hundreds of skills to choose from.

Quote:

And while you're at it, if you think players are entitled to win simply because they played (without putting forth effort or skill), then go suggest players be given access to BAMPH.

Guild Wars PvE is not about skill, its about time, as is evidenced by the amount of grind and title farming. And its not hard to beat the campaigns, so you need to define what "winning" is. I'm assuming you mean accumulation of wealth, and any player can do so, just go roll a Sin!

Quote:

Until you've done these two things, your argument contradicts your actions, and I will be forced to dismiss it as hypocrisy.

Until you realize what hypocrisy is, and that I've not advocated any of the things you've claimed, your statements are irrelevant and supercilious.

Yelling @ Cats · Dec 11, 2009, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

It also hurt my enjoyment, when I can't even enjoy certain areas because....its empty. Namely, EoTN dungeons and DoA, and everywhere else except UW. Before that, I can't enjoy anything except DoA Ursan + UW. Before that, I can't enjoy anything cuz a majority was doing solo/duo farming in UW.

Unbalanced game where I can play 99% of people >>>> Balanced game where I can only play with 1% of people, assuming they're not going to change anything other than skills.

Of course, the best solution is a balanced game where I can play with 100% of people, assuming they make more areas more attractive using various other methods other than skill nerfs.

I'm sorry, but an RPG where 100% of the population can succeed anywhere at any skill level would be absolutely TERRIBLE.

reaper with no name · Dec 11, 2009, 06:25 AM // 06:25

You mean 99% of SF sins.

Also, has it ever occured to you that maybe, just maybe, one of the reasons these areas are so empty is because only SF sins are wanted for them?

And aren't the areas already empty except for farmers? Nerfing SF won't do anything except make the farmers move on. It won't change your ability to find a group to actually play the area.

But yes, the ideal solution would be a nerf to SF with changes to the areas accompanying it.

Yelling @ Cats · Dec 11, 2009, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Guild Wars PvE is not about skill, its about time, as is evidenced by the amount of grind and title farming. And its not hard to beat the campaigns, so you need to define what "winning" is.

I'm guessing that by "winning", he means doing a HM mission, which someone is here ranting about being too difficult.

mrvrod · Dec 11, 2009, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

I would counter that with "every argument for keeping it is another way of saying 'I want to keep farming ectos easily and get this stuff easily'!".

Oh, and yes, SF is not fair. But not because of the farming it allows; because it's so much better than every other build out there. Think of the poor warriors and mesmers and rangers who might as well not exist in the game since a SF sin is always superior!

It hurts my enjoyment of the game because I like there to be some semblance of balance. And I like being able to play a character without constantly having to face the fact that no matter how well I optimize their build and equipment, there will never be any purpose in it, since SF will always be superior.

Oh, and you really shouldn't use that particular argument against me, because I have a grand total of less than 150k and one ecto to my name, and all my weapon skins across all of my characters are non-rare save for two, and none of my characters have elite armors or any sorts of rare items that would be worth anything significant. I'm probably one of the poorest people on GWG.

Oh, and once again, if you think SF is ok, then go suggest that all professions be given the perma. At least then the game would be fair. Oh, wait, didn't Anet try that already? Something called Ursan? Yeah, and it failed, because Warrior and Ranger Ursans were better than all other Ursans in every way, so there was no reason to play anything but them.

Also, let's not forget, your argument of "If you don't like it, don't use it" is equally valid when arguing that alien cyborg kungfu zombie nuns should be a playable class. Some players might enjoy it, I guess Anet should implement it, right? Those who don't like it don't have to use it.

While we're at it, let's give players access to BAMPH! If players don't like it, they don't have to use it, right? And let's give them machine guns, too! And tactical nuclear missiles that are mounted on satelites! And a shout called "RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO You!" that gives all the monsters -2000 armor! And a dildo sword skin! And a skill that lets you fart pink elephants that stomp on all the enemies for 300 chaos damage!

Guess what? I have about 190k to my name, zero ectos, and much prefer to play Jada (my hundred blades warrior). Guess what? I do not have a SF permasin. Guess what? I don't even know how to run the build. None of that matters.

The game IS broken. I think even anet might admit that. This game does not reward skill, ths game rewards skills. It is too late for this game, that's just how it is. And no one (NO ONE) has given a reasonable answer to a very simple question. "How does one person playing a SF perma, ruin your ability to play the game the way you want to play it?"

Do you know why I'd actually like to roll a perma? I've played through 99.75% of the GW content dozens of times already. I've dome all the eotn dungeons at least twice. There are only the elite areas of the game that I have never been able to finish (except FoW, done that once). Four years into the game, there is only myself and one other guildie who pair up with our heroes and continue to play. For nostalgia, I don't wish to leave and disband my guild (of which I am now the leader, due mainly to attrition). I will not waste my valuable playing time to pug's that fail 99% of the time. So what are we left with?

Assuming a miracle happens, and anet does not nerf SF, I WILL be rolling a permasin. i'll be doing so to enjoy the content that has been unavailable to me, not because I want to compete with some fool who has 1 million stacks of armbraces (probably from the dupe exploit). And what could possibly be wrong with that?

Yelling @ Cats · Dec 11, 2009, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrvrod

"How does one person playing a SF perma, ruin your ability to play the game the way you want to play it?"

So by this logic, ANet should make Luxon/Kurzick Defenders available as henchmen?

Because f it, how does that ruin anyone's game? If you don't like it, don't use it.

Edit:
As for needing SF to clear UW...I've done it with a friend in HM with heroes...it isn't that hard.