Curse

Cuilan · Feb 20, 2010, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

I'm sure the next thing the live team will address is dervishes and mesmers in PvE. They can't focus on everything at once, because when they try they take forever and usually fail.

You mean the next update and not this upcoming one? It won't be this update because of "This update is targeted at several areas:" part. They had years to change things.

Balance includes all professions. That's the point of balance updates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dont Nerf The Perma

Why the SoS nerf? That made spirit spamming so much fun.

Because it's too easy to solo-clear a lot of areas of the game. See SoS based UW solo builds and UW duo builds as proof.

Zesty · Feb 20, 2010, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Such narrow minded people. It's unfortunate that you overlook some of these skill updates and pass some off as useless. People will understand though as time goes on. Theres already 2 pretty retardedly overpowered melee combinations that just opened up, not considering the hammer buffs, that has synergy with the new blood skills via an orders necro. Beyond that the yet to be announced rit buffs should be very significant based on the skills they are actually messing with.

Let's just put it this way, if you have experience with non-gimmick(sf, ursan, 600/smite) builds in the elite areas you would see where these updates come into play. Sadly if you continue to think that invincible tanks are the only way to go you are going to be doing fow for the rest of your GW career, seeing as that is probly the only place tank and spank with a Defy Pain warrior will probably be efficient.

Tom Swift · Feb 20, 2010, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Quote:

In tackling Shadow Form, we decided to take a larger look at the issues involved. We didn’t want to simply nerf Shadow Form and cause a mass migration to another overpowered build, only to nerf that after players start using it. It’s not possible to predict all of the clever combinations that players may invent, but we’d like to establish clearer guidelines for ourselves and for players as to what is and isn't acceptable. This should help us with any future buffs or nerfs related to end game PvE.

Based on our testing, observation and discussion, we expect to make changes to Shadow Form, Obsidian Flesh, and to a skill or two used in 600-Smite builds.

I'm sorry but this sounds like they are making preparations to be able to say next week,

"establishing effective guidelines concerning sf and other overpowered builds wound up being such a large task that we were not able to adequately address it in this build and look forward to doing so at some un specified future date"

Bet a mini harpy that's what happens

Turbo Ginsu · Feb 20, 2010, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Let's just hope, Ark, that the Mesmer and Dervish addressing isn't undertaken after GW2 is released. That's the real issue I'm sure we lovers of both are actually trying to put across I think.

**cosyfiep** · Feb 20, 2010, 03:12 AM // 03:12

guess I enjoyed playing my rit a little too much, back to the mule group for her after this goes thru.
My hubby will be pleased that the hammer is finally getting some love (he likes to play a hammer warrior)...
also nice (if it gets in ON the 25th) that they FINALLY came thru on one update .....now if they can just keep it up (yes virginia there is a santa claus, right?)

zhongzh · Feb 20, 2010, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Whatever happened to minimizing the number of pvp-pve split skills?

Ugh · Feb 20, 2010, 03:58 AM // 03:58

No changes to dervishes, mesmers, or rangers. Meh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dont Nerf The Perma

Why the SoS nerf? That made spirit spamming so much fun.

Did you really ever use it on recharge anyway? I didn't. And if you were talking about damage, it was reduced by 2.

It was quite a mild nerf.

Jarge · Feb 20, 2010, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by code

Kill his godmode for all you want but don't touch my godmode

Haithar, I fixed your quote

jazilla · Feb 20, 2010, 04:00 AM // 04:00

yeah idk what's with all of the rit whining. the buffs are pretty amazing and i suspect we will see them toned down in March...of 2011.

xDusT II · Feb 20, 2010, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Deflect Arrows lasts too long...

Jensy · Feb 20, 2010, 04:13 AM // 04:13

From working on the skill balance in the TK, I can say that it's not as easy as it sounds :P Each change, no matter how small it seems, travels through the game to every monster, npc, etc. All of that has to be factored in, as well as how the updated skills synergize with other skills to create potential headaches in PvP and PvE. It's a long process. It's not "oh lol, let's just make X do Y instead of Z." Believe what you will, I know you all will anyway, but do know that a lot of work has been put into this. Oh, sure, you can say "work, for THAT?" but uh... you being personally disappointed does not mean that the work was in vain.

Not everyone will be happy. One person being happy, is another being pissed off. That's the way anything works, not just in GW. This skill balance will do what it does; it's not going to walk your dog, it's not going to do your laundry. It's not going to be everything for everyone. No skill balance ever will be :P

Eragon Zarroc · Feb 20, 2010, 04:18 AM // 04:18

interesting stuff O_O curious to see what they do with the invulnerability tanks O_O

Voice of Reason · Feb 20, 2010, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Make BHA 10 energy, 5 recharge, 1...6 duration.

Oh, and fix dervishes, mesmers, and nature rituals.

Please?

Shayne Hawke · Feb 20, 2010, 04:30 AM // 04:30

I'm glad that prelim notes are being put out like this. Though there's a valid enough reason with the proximity to the mAT, I'd hope that prelim updates like this can continue in the future, just for kicks.

Captain Bulldozer · Feb 20, 2010, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Some of these changes look ok, but I will admit that this also seems to leave out a LOT, while fixing a lot of minor skills to be slightly more attractive.

One thing of concern is the proposed change to Aggressive refrain... cracked armor is a lot easier to deal with than a perma -20 AR. Factor in the fact that Paragons have almost no good options for IAS, and few good builds other than the imbagon and this could potentially hurt the paragon a lot. Consider this, what will happen when you're an imbagon with Aggressive refrain up and you use "Save yourselves!". You're stuck at 60 AR and everyone else shoots up 100 AR, making you a very tempting squishy for every foe around. Since we don't know which of the 600 skills will be hit (I hope its not prot spirit) this could be a huge setback.

Also, while ritualist is undoubtedly one of my favorite classes, these buffs seem a bit unnecessary after the buff to rits last summer. Meanwhile, paragons, dervishes, rangers and mesmers go completely unattended.

Some of the new hammer and tactics skills looks interesting, but I still don't see much that changes the primary weaknesses of hammers: they are slow, and you sacrifice armor to use one. The smaller adrenaline costs will be nice, but backbreaker for 9 is still overpriced. Tactics will still be a primarily defensive line, and thus I predict it won't get much more love than it does now.

Also, any guesses on what 600/smite skills get hit? I'm betting Spellbreaker and SoA.

Perfected Shadow · Feb 20, 2010, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Imo there are only a handful of useful potential buffs pve-wise, the rest are meh-

Hammer: a few interesting fast attack skills. Not enough to compete against just using a faster weapon when it comes to pure damage (delivering buffed packets of damage faster). What hammer does best is Earthshaker, and I don't see much that will change that.

Ritualist: nothing interesting except ARage and maybe Spirit Boon strike. Others have too high recharges. Destructive was Glaive doesn't have any useful channeling nukes to go with it, but if you plan on going near mobs to drop it, you might as well play a melee char instead. Most ritualist hexes still look crap so a buffed Anguished was Lingwah is useless. Gotta wait and see what they have planned for Soul Twisting, Rit Lord, and Spirit Channeling. But otherwise SoS builds will still remain on top.

Tactics: big pile of nothing except for Retreat which could be used instead of Fallback for moving around. Oh but some of the changes would please mr wammo though, he will now have more self preservation to complement the almighty mending. If these aren't pve/pvp splits, then I wouldn't be surprised if they had a much bigger impact on pvp (e.g. Deflect Arrows on Mo/W).

Blood Magic: Jaundiced gaze looks very good, if it's recharge is kept the same, you get a 2 sec recharge spell that speeds and reduces energy costs of Orders, as well as removing an enchantment. Blood bond providing only healing is meh but could find a slot in an Orders build.

Other things: Would Heal As One provide a permanent life stealing buff just by having it on your bar? Steelfang Slash will have a bigger effect in pvp Hammer/Sword hybrids, but it could be nice to slot with pve Earthshaker builds too.

Premium Unleaded · Feb 20, 2010, 05:26 AM // 05:26

More likely the 2 smiting enchants. Hitting SoA will lead to it affecting PvP unless they split; whether that's also intended ¯\(°_o)/¯

shoyon456 · Feb 20, 2010, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jensy

From working on the skill balance in the TK, I can say that it's not as easy as it sounds :P Each change, no matter how small it seems, travels through the game to every monster, npc, etc. All of that has to be factored in, as well as how the updated skills synergize with other skills to create potential headaches in PvP and PvE. It's a long process. It's not "oh lol, let's just make X do Y instead of Z." Believe what you will, I know you all will anyway, but do know that a lot of work has been put into this. Oh, sure, you can say "work, for THAT?" but uh... you being personally disappointed does not mean that the work was in vain.

Not everyone will be happy. One person being happy, is another being pissed off. That's the way anything works, not just in GW. This skill balance will do what it does; it's not going to walk your dog, it's not going to do your laundry. It's not going to be everything for everyone. No skill balance ever will be :P

While the points are valid, understand these things:

1. Anet said skill updates would be every 2 months. This has taken nearly 6 months.

2. SF has been out for a long time and until now neglected by Anet. Instead of just changing the skill, they went to the extent of adding a whole new monster type (Skeletons of Dhuum) to hamper use of the skill, which really just hurt balanced teams more. Obby Flesh has never been touched and was never raised as a major concern.

3. Ele damage in HM is bad for being the "DPS class," Dervs cant get into a high-end PvE group to save their lives (trust me, my derv is my main), Mesmers have a similar problem, etc...

4. Related to number three... Rits and Warriors can get into high-end PvE, Warriors actively choose not to take tactics to go DPS, and Hammers were more aimed for PvP upon conception. None of these need priority. Anet needs to set priority goals on balancing the less used professions, get it to the point where they all can enter groups with clear advantages, and work from there on making it "even."

EDIT: Alternatively to 4, if they can't give Dervs/Mesmers a reason to get into DoA/FoW/UW/Urgoz/Deep in a timely manner or won't, admit it and give me my full hero group.

EDIT2: Like I said in my previous post, they don't owe us anything. But the way they handle their games is why I won't be buying GW2 as far as I'm concerned at this point.

Leigh The Legendary · Feb 20, 2010, 05:32 AM // 05:32

really just be thankful that they do anything, it's an old game. gg

Thanks Anet for something

Tenebrae · Feb 20, 2010, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Well after reading i gotta say is "not bad" but .... those rit changes ......really ? were they more important than Mes/Rangers PvE stuff ? dear god Wilderness Survival att line ? blerf ...