Curse

*Darcy* · Mar 12, 2010, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Might I point out that the information in the original Guild Wars 2 announcement included a statement about having less skills available as well as less professions. And, while I don't expect all the doomsayers to disappear (they will just switch from predicting the death of GW to predicting the death of GW2), I, personally, and I think a large part of the fanbase expect to be very happy with GW2.

To Chicken To Die · Mar 12, 2010, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcy

Might I point out that the information in the original Guild Wars 2 announcement included a statement about having less skills available as well as less professions. And, while I don't expect all the doomsayers to disappear (they will just switch from predicting the death of GW to predicting the death of GW2), I, personally, and I think a large part of the fanbase expect to be very happy with GW2.

Nothing less then the truth. A rough estimate would be that 20% of the current players won't buy GW2, but there will be a big group of new players never played GW before that will show interest in the game making that 20% dissapear into there shade.

none thereless I will be part of that 20% but continue on in GW 1 whenever I feel like gaming.

Grunntar · Mar 12, 2010, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein

- Even negative feedback has something positive; if people criticize a game it means they're (still) interested into it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by To Chicken To Die

Yea but seeing this as possitive? Negative feedback...

Yes, the most important word in Martin's statement is feedback. Not to be confused with negative statements and negative opinions.

Negative feedback: Shadow Form sucks because it makes an Assassin invulnerable!

This is negative, obviously. But it's also feedback, because there is something that is actionable. "Ah, if Shadow Form didn't make the Assassin invulnerable, maybe it wouldn't suck...? Hey, let's think about changing Shadow Form..."

Negative statement: Shadow Form sucks!

This is negative, obviously. But what can they do with this information? Nothing...

Negative feedback is still feedback!

The Drunkard · Mar 12, 2010, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

I take it that you haven't tried to PuG HA lately. I think that even long time players can tell you that it gets fairly bad.

The difficulty of getting into pugs in HA nowadays isn't because there are so few players who are able to get into Ha, but rather that there isn't a large playerbase there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert Rose

And no, a new player cannot jump right into PvP, he first has to play several weeks to unlock all skills and equipment for PvP chars or collect them in PvE.

You don't need to unlock every skill or equipment piece to be a competent pvp player. One or two skillbars and two equipment are enough to get started with.

Let's look at the requirements to get to get into HA (before they dumbed it down)
10 consec wins in RA
5 wins in TA

That's it, getting into the high-end/competitive pvp areas wasn't too hard and only took an afternoon. Now you need, what, 5 consec wins?

The reason that the lower areas are more populated than the higher ones is because they require much less organization and coordination in a group. Removing the competitive areas of GW2 is just going to dumb the game down for people and shift the aspect of the game towards pve.

Artisan Archer · Mar 13, 2010, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-Bigz

stuff

oh look, a troll.

Good interview. I don't see how you can take anything said in the interview negatively but ok.

Jecht Scye · Mar 13, 2010, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maneo Ranae

Jesus Christ. Did you even think before saying that? You're saying that ANet milks us for cash? Wait, what? Have you ever stopped to look at Blizzard with WoW? How can you honestly say that ANet's milking us dry when all you're required to do to play the game is,... *Gasp* BUY THE GAME?! Costumes are optional. Get over yourself.

It would seem I've touched a nerve. Please note that I never said Anet was milking you dry. I said they were beginning to milk you at regular intervals. Let's consider what you got when you purchased Guild Wars: Nightfall "new" shall we? I forget what the MSRP for the game was when it first came out, but let's be generous and call it $50.00 USD. That came with several sets of armor(with different models for each class), new skills, new enemies, new missions, great content, etc., etc. The specifics don't matter much, let's just suffice to say that it was a great purchase. Now let's consider these costume micro-transactions. You're paying $9.99 to get one set of "armor". I'm not blaming ArenaNet for milking you, I'm blaming people like you for allowing it to happen. On the contrary, ArenaNet is just doing what a good business does - make money.

Your comparison to WoW has no ground. This game is not WoW, and I don't play WoW for the reasons you listed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

[B]Yes, because with the infinite cash GW brings in without micro transactions are sufficient to fund arenanet. they absolutely don't need any more funding at all, and thinking anet might need to make money is completely preposterous. also, no one's putting a gun to anyone's head forcing them to buy it.

Firstly, See Above. Secondly, if their previous business model was working, then why not develop another chapter to fuel a 2012 release of Guild Wars 2. I'll tell you why - because it doesn't make good business sense to put that kind of work into a BMP when people will willingly buy an overpriced costume. Again, it's not ArenaNet's fault you people are suckers. It's yours. I will continue to not purchase these overpriced wastes of resources. I merely suggest you all do the same.

My peace is said, and I won't derail this topic any further on this matter.

Del · Mar 13, 2010, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jecht Scye

Firstly, See Above. Secondly, if their previous business model was working, then why not develop another chapter to fuel a 2012 release of Guild Wars 2. I'll tell you why - because it doesn't make good business sense to put that kind of work into a BMP when people will willingly buy an overpriced costume. Again, it's not ArenaNet's fault you people are suckers. It's yours. I will continue to not purchase these overpriced wastes of resources. I merely suggest you all do the same.

actually, that was a juge steaming heap of sarcasm aimed a you.

shoyon456 · Mar 13, 2010, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

actually, that was a juge steaming heap of sarcasm aimed a you.

He recognized the sarcasm and raised a valid point. As long as you show Anet you're willing to drop the extra money for something you can hardly call "content," they'll keep doing it.

If Anet needs the extra revenue, then its only indicative of their shortcommings. And specifically I mean that they ended GW1 before its time to go or that the whole free2play model was doomed from the start. Lastly, its indicative of the level of "content" done for GW1 since GW2 production. And please note that this is sarcasm, as an armor purchasable with real money is hardly content.

Martin Kerstein · Mar 13, 2010, 09:19 PM // 21:19

In regards to difficulty of entry to PvP:

- Sure, everybody can easily create a PvP character.
- If new PvP players get ROFLstomped over and over again because they are not aware of synergies between skills on their bar and synergies between classes in a build - they will stop playing.
- Because of that complexity, there is a high barrier of entry.

Skyy High · Mar 13, 2010, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jecht Scye

Secondly, if their previous business model was working, then why not develop another chapter to fuel a 2012 release of Guild Wars 2. I'll tell you why - because it doesn't make good business sense to put that kind of work into a BMP when people will willingly buy an overpriced costume. Again, it's not ArenaNet's fault you people are suckers. It's yours. I will continue to not purchase these overpriced wastes of resources. I merely suggest you all do the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoyon456

If Anet needs the extra revenue, then its only indicative of their shortcommings. And specifically I mean that they ended GW1 before its time to go or that the whole free2play model was doomed from the start.

...or that they don't have the coders to work full-time on a brand new game while still pumping out chapters for GW1 in any reasonable length of time?

I don't see any indication that they "need" the extra revenue. Have you seen Regina say anything along the lines of, "Please buy these costumes or we'll never finish GW2"? Why encourage people who, believe it or not, are willingly paying for costumes and storage upgrades and the like to stop buying said things? Do you think that ANet is going to slap their collective foreheads and realize that we want to buy content, as if they don't know that already? Do you really think there is the slightest possibility that they think we'd actually prefer costumes over, say, a new god realm? Of COURSE they know we want content, we've been saying it for almost 2 years now, and they do give us some on occasion - Dhuum is pretty much the coolest boss in GW, regardless of how his addition rubbed people the wrong way - but telling them to stop giving us fluffy extras like costumes is not going to magically make them put out a new expansion pack.

Costumes literally have no impact on you if you don't see the value in them. They're not preventing them from making new content, they're just there for those who want them. Telling people to wake up and stop being "suckers"...what exactly do you hope to accomplish? Whatever it is, I assure you, it's not going to happen like that. "Oh, if people would only stop buying costumes, GW would be saved!"

Enon · Mar 13, 2010, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein

In regards to difficulty of entry to PvP:

- Sure, everybody can easily create a PvP character.
- If new PvP players get ROFLstomped over and over again because they are not aware of synergies between skills on their bar and synergies between classes in a build - they will stop playing.
- Because of that complexity, there is a high barrier of entry.

Because with every MMORPG/CORPG/RPG you can just blindly enter PvP without actually understanding the game.

Seriously Martin, that statement is fail. As with almost every game you need to learn at least the basics before entering PvP. If you're too stupid to realize that you shouldn't even bother to play a game.

Turbo Ginsu · Mar 13, 2010, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein

In regards to difficulty of entry to PvP:

- Sure, everybody can easily create a PvP character.
- If new PvP players get ROFLstomped over and over again because they are not aware of synergies between skills on their bar and synergies between classes in a build - they will stop playing.
- Because of that complexity, there is a high barrier of entry.

In all honesty, Enon is spot on the money. I'm ex-Neverwinter Nights, well over 4 straight years of high echelon PvP. I can tell you straight up that the entry barrier in GW PvP is a pisshole in the snow by comparison.

GW-8 skill slots. Daydream, might be using all 8, still only 8.
NwN-36 Skill slots. Using all tyvm.
GW-2 class system, level cap 20.
NwN-3 class system, level cap 40.
GW-Fail Build? Re-roll in town or outpost.
NwN-Fail Build? No worries! De-level to whre u need to fix from, EARN the levels back. The hard way. Fail again? Do it again.

Whilst there is a Wiki for both, and also build repositories, NwN being a private server game, is subjective to equipment that differs realm by realm. Same goes for skills and spells.

In NwN, KD is a skill, endlessly spammable, they fail the roll, they end up on their ass, knocklocks, blind, etc, in GW have nothing on some of the things you can do to an opponent when under the influence of a truly deep and well thought out ruleset, i.e. ad&d 3.5. In NwN if you get blinded, you don't get some lame little circling effect and miss a lot, your entire screen except for your toon goes pitch black, and you miss everything. If it's a recurring effect spell or skill, keep failing rolls, stay that way indefinately. GW players have it easy enough already.

Regardless, I play GW now, exhausted myself in NwN. Point is this: GW PvP is laughably easy to get into, and whilst attaining the upper echelons is difficult, you don't see any of the sort of total domination in PvP here that you do there. Ever remove 9996 of 10k hp with one touch skill in GW? Thought not.

And it's still laughably easy to get into. For the love of God, maintain your standards. PvP has always been for the hardcore, in any game. Keep it that way.

Cuilan · Mar 14, 2010, 02:47 AM // 02:47

You PvP players need to start playing awful or Anet will make PvP in Guild Wars 2 simple and easy.

Enon · Mar 14, 2010, 10:38 AM // 10:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

It's not an entry barrier of skill, it's a PvP community that actively does their best to stop new people from playing. Try getting a group in HA without visible ranks in a PvP title.

Read Martin's post again. What you're referring to is a different discussion. Martin is only mentioning the basics of GW skills/classes as a high barrier.

QueenofDeath · Mar 14, 2010, 11:08 AM // 11:08

Quote:

Quote:
- The number of skills in GW2 will be reduced because many players were crushed by the sheer number of skills and possible builds.
- The entrance into PvP is to high in GW1, they will to try to make it easier in GW2.
- In GW2 the number of PvP formats will be reduced.
- Balancing will never stop.
- There will be new content for GW1, but the definition of "content" may varies from player to player. Mainly new content will expend the story of GW1 and will build a bridge to GW2.
- They may expand the Test Krewe.
- HB and TA will not return.
- Even negative feedback has something positive; if people criticize a game it means they're (still) interested into it.
- There will be something special for the 5th birthday.
- New costumes are very likely.
- HoM will be account based in GW2. One GW2 account will be abled to linked to another GW1 accont. With a special item you will be able to enter a instance of the HoM. There are no informations what the bonuses are at this point.
- They seriously consider to enable player organized tournaments. It hasn't made clear if they also consider if players will be able to make custom maps.
- There isn't a easy way to show who is online in the alliance guilds, so it's very unlikely it will be implemented in GW1.
- The build system in GW2 will be similar to GW1; you can make a build out of different possibilities.

So that ^ basically says there will be NOTHING NEW in GW2 and that it will actually be more DUMBED DOWN than the previous version. lmao Why would anybody want to buy into the same crap we've been playing for nearly 5 years? Milk Money? Donkey Milking? lmao. Well I hope to a god they at least add one more skill slot because I've always needed just one more slot to make the perfect synergy build "I" wanted.

) Why am I saying this? I'm not buying GW2 just so it's easier to get to PVP!! lmao I want LOOT and LOTS of it and I want more SLOTS in LOOT so I can make my things MORE POWERFUL. I want a HASTE inscription +10=15% attack speed and it MUST be a RARE drop and non-tradeable.

) I want ALL GIMMICK BUILDS eliminated from the get go. No more 55 monks, no more SF nerds, no more Obsidian can't touch dis and no more 600 smackers.

The real story behind GW2: Extra extra read all about it...Anet adds a 2 to GW to rake in more dough from simple**** who buy it. You'll get less and it will be even easier and more dumbed down than GW1 which means less content for the same amount of money!!
Skill died with Prophecies when they found out more simple**** will buy the game when it's so easy a caveman can play it.

)

Silverblad3 · Mar 15, 2010, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein

In regards to difficulty of entry to PvP:

- Sure, everybody can easily create a PvP character.
- If new PvP players get ROFLstomped over and over again because they are not aware of synergies between skills on their bar and synergies between classes in a build - they will stop playing.
- Because of that complexity, there is a high barrier of entry.

Interesting.

Players should know synergies between skills on their bars and classes, they need that to be some what sucessful in PvE, Elite areas and Hard Mode. If they have that in PvE then they should do well in PvP, right?

The problem is not necessaryily that Martin, the problem is that these new players do not know the maps or the meta, how to play the meta (from what they use in PvE) and experience in PvP. Not all but some PvE players who come to HA think its fine to have a couple of superior runes, no sheild sets, no 40/40 sets and play what they think works in PvE. They get 'ROFLstomped'. Same happened in PvE until they learnt how to overcome the challenge. In PvP they get ROFLstomped for being dumb and importantly clueless, unless you want to reward that?

The highest barrier to PvP is actually knowledge, dumb it down enough and all can play, all can get bored with limited selection of skills and builds in a few months, it becomes a stale game. Where actual skill becomes irrelevant..... and buttom smashing wins through.

Silver

JR · Mar 15, 2010, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo Ginsu

GW PvP is laughably easy to get into, and whilst attaining the upper echelons is difficult, you don't see any of the sort of total domination in PvP here that you do there. Ever remove 9996 of 10k hp with one touch skill in GW? Thought not.

And it's still laughably easy to get into. For the love of God, maintain your standards. PvP has always been for the hardcore, in any game. Keep it that way.

Your comparison is completely missing the point of Martin's post.

Guild Wars PvP has always had a competitive, e-sports focus. For a game like that you want the lowest possible bar of entry. The comparison for that bar is against other e-sports games, not some ridiculously gear/grind oriented sham.

Tenebrae · Mar 15, 2010, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Your comparison is completely missing the point of Martin's post.

Guild Wars PvP has always had a competitive, e-sports focus. For a game like that you want the lowest possible bar of entry. The comparison for that bar is against other e-sports games, not some ridiculously gear/grind oriented sham.

Bingo.

Some ppl here dont know that theres something between black and white. Reducing skills dont mean that you are going to have 20 and thats it ..... maybe they reduce skills per class about a 20% and is not a big deal. Maybe they use armor , weapon and atts like agi , str or whatever to add some variations ..... its too soon to go bitching or trolling about a game system that does not exist , chill .

esthetic · Mar 15, 2010, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein

In regards to difficulty of entry to PvP:

- Sure, everybody can easily create a PvP character.
- If new PvP players get ROFLstomped over and over again because they are not aware of synergies between skills on their bar and synergies between classes in a build - they will stop playing.
- Because of that complexity, there is a high barrier of entry.

I think what he is saying is... The difference in results from an "expert" pvper and "novice" pvper is too much now, under the current format you get a good team v. a bad team you will get the good team winning 99 out of the 100 matches, ... If you lessen the effect of "good" play you will get the good team winning 90 out of the 100 matches. This does not mean "good" play will not be relevant, just means it wont be as dominating.

I have to agree that this kind of tweak would be a good thing to get more people in PvP play, especially if you are trying attract a new crowd. Losing 99 out of a 100 would turn anyone off lol. Accomplishing this by lessening synergies or reducing skills, i do not think is a good idea. Introducing luck or some sort of other equalizing feature would be better. Don't dumb down the game but just introduce some randomizing feature of the result.

Del · Mar 15, 2010, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

You PvP players need to start playing awful or Anet will make PvP in Guild Wars 2 simple and easy.

you pve mesmers need to stop being awful so you can stop begging for buffs.