Curse

Reformed · Mar 14, 2010, 08:56 PM // 20:56

There is simply no excuse for not knowing the absolute basics about The Underworld or other areas like it before even attempting "Elite" content. Spend 10 minutes reading the various wiki articles or pulling up some tube videos. I'm not talking about SC tactics here either, I am talking basic situational awareness. Most players are relatively accommodating to inexperienced people if they say so up front. However, the people who do these runs for fast profit and not casual gameplay are not there to babysit. If you are a dumbass and try it Leroy/Kilroy style or do a take all quests on the Reaper of the Labyrinth it's not one of the dreaded "-isms" when they get upset.

Deakon · Mar 14, 2010, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenofDeath

The OP forgets he/she was a noob once and many others who now have experience and think they shouldn't have to play with the likes of themselves when they were noobs. baw haw haw haw that is so funny. It's a silly game quit acting like your life depends on it. So you fail big deal what's your hurry? Someday you'll get lucky and win that's what you play for and NOT to WIN EVERY GD TIME YOU PLAY. I've never seen so many selfish lazy I want it my way or the highway type players in my life. Play as it was intended to be played for ENTERTAINMENT not a LIFE's GOAL.

Hey! We won't tolerate "sense talk" in here!

If only there were some way for those noobs to just pay someone to do it for them in 20 minutes... Then they wouldn't be screwing up those who want to run a balanced team and succeed.

Arduin · Mar 14, 2010, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed

There is simply no excuse for not knowing the absolute basics about The Underworld or other areas like it before even attempting "Elite" content. Spend 10 minutes reading the various wiki articles or pulling up some tube videos. I'm not talking about SC tactics here either, I am talking basic situational awareness. Most players are relatively accommodating to inexperienced people if they say so up front.

To add, grab a guildmate/friend, load up on an easy mode build (discord and spirit spam) and first adventure a bit with the two of you and your heroes. You'll fail a lot, but aren't dependent on other people, and learn 10 times as much as opposed to just running after the party leader and kill stuff.

You might not be able to clear the UW (or any other elite area) but you can at least carry your own weight when in an 'experienced party'.

MisterB · Mar 14, 2010, 09:26 PM // 21:26

The difference between a new player who is inexperienced and wants to join a group in UW and the kind of player the OP is talking about is the players the OP is talking about are liars or idiots.

Lying about your build and experience just wastes everyone's time and the entry fee the party has to pay to admit you to UW. Someone who lies about their experience stands a very good chance of causing a wipe because they can't ask what they are supposed to do, and can easily cause a wipe doing the wrong thing.

Idiots who don't listen also cause wipes by taking the wrong quest too early or leeroying into Aatxe and dragging them back into the party.

Both cases can easily be solved by acquiring knowledge of the area, foes, and quests, and communicating your inexperience to the group and asking for direction. Groups that aren't doing speed clears or what not shouldn't have a problem accommodating a request from a new player who is willing to listen.

A new player willing to listen and communicate is a far greater player for the party than what the OP is talking about.

Meridon · Mar 14, 2010, 09:54 PM // 21:54

I find it rather ironic that in this thread, the majority of posters is defending PvE newbs for trying to play the game, by getting into experienced parties, while in any other HA thread it is the exact opposite.

This says a lot about the communities.

Turbo Ginsu · Mar 14, 2010, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Hint 1: Anyone who claims to be "exp" or "pro" is not.

Hint 2: Anyone who claims to be seeking someone who is "exp" or "pro" or "no noobs" isn't either.

Hint 3: Anyone who claims to be a tank or is seeking a tank is also pretty clueless.

Yep, worse still is that the morons who stand about shouting "No Noobs/fails/etc", actually believe for even a second that the majority of players would actually admit to any of those things.
Hilarity ensues.

Del · Mar 14, 2010, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo Ginsu

Yep, worse still is that the morons who stand about shouting "No Noobs/fails/etc", actually believe for even a second that the majority of players would actually admit to any of those things.
Hilarity ensues.

Actually, people that spam no noobs are actually very, very pro (at making themselves look like jackasses).

TheRaven · Mar 14, 2010, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

The difference between a new player who is inexperienced and wants to join a group in UW and the kind of player the OP is talking about is the players the OP is talking about are liars or idiots.

Lying about your build and experience just wastes everyone's time and the entry fee the party has to pay to admit you to UW. Someone who lies about their experience stands a very good chance of causing a wipe because they can't ask what they are supposed to do, and can easily cause a wipe doing the wrong thing.

Idiots who don't listen also cause wipes by taking the wrong quest too early or leeroying into Aatxe and dragging them back into the party.

Both cases can easily be solved by acquiring knowledge of the area, foes, and quests, and communicating your inexperience to the group and asking for direction. Groups that aren't doing speed clears or what not shouldn't have a problem accommodating a request from a new player who is willing to listen.

A new player willing to listen and communicate is a far greater player for the party than what the OP is talking about.

The problem with this is that there are no teams willing to take a newbie and teach them. They want experienced pros and if you haven't cleared UW at least a couple hundred times then expect a swift kick from the team and a lot of cussing. That's why players like the noob in the OP lie.

Think of it from his perspective. Newbie Wammo fresh into Kryta asks to join an UW team. Says he can tank. A team accepts him and asks for build. He pings his wonderful mending/HB build that got him thru Ascalon alive and is cussed out and kicked.

He asks his guild what's a good UW build and they ping him a decent build. He spends a week acquiring the skills and tries again. He joins another team, pings his nice build and says he's looking forward to going to UW for the first time. He's cussed out again and kicked.

He joins yet another team. Says he's new to UW and wants to try out his new build. Team leader says NO NOOBS!!!! KICK!.

This time he joins the OP's team. They ask if he's experienced and he lies. He knows he'll be kicked if he doesn't. Can ya blame him?

The community in this game is very unforgiving. No one is willing to teach a new player how to do anything. I agree with the concept that you need to learn with hero's and henchies instead of making a human team fail, but for some areas, that isn't an option. I can enter UW or FOW with 3 heroes and if I'm a good player, I can make some progress, but I can't clear.

It's the responsibility of the team leader to make sure his team is prepared before you enter. If you want only pros then make it clear that you only want pros and check builds and knowledge beforehand. Ask questions. However also consider running sometimes with less knowledgable folks. Accept 1 or 2 "newbies" on the team. Ask them for their honest level of experience and tell them they won't be kicked if their honest and willing to learn. If they don't have a decent build then tell them they can't go but that you're willing to take them next week if they can get proper skills and equipment. Explain as you go and make sure they understand their function on the team. Most people are willing to learn.

Maybe if more people were willing to show newbies an elite area, these places wouldn't be so dead.

englitdaudelin · Mar 14, 2010, 10:22 PM // 22:22

I don't mind taking someone new if he/she demonstrates a willingness to listen and talk to the team (hint: venty or something like it).

If you want to have a legitimate reason to exclude someone, without having to ask people to show summoning stones or turn on titles or whatever---

then ask a few pointed questions. 1) What quests do you NOT take at reaper x? 2)How do you defend the reaper of the Ice Wastes? 3)What needs to happen during the Four Horsemen quest?

Now, I've just picked these three questions because I think they're pretty much the three places that a team's likely to fail, even if the team has a clue. Bad luck, bad spawns, weak damage, etc, can cause a wipe here. But substitute your own three favorite questions that you think will indicate a player has a clue and can contribute to a fun, successful run-- and yes, I do equate fun with success here. I don't think anyone wants to give up two or three hours of time, only to fail entirely.

For a serious rookie who you feel like adopting, the answers look like this:
1) I don't take a single quest. I let the team leader do it and tell me what to do.
2)I do what the team leader tells me to do.
3) I do what the team leader tells me to do.

If you get someone more experienced, you make sure his/her answers match your plans, your preferred method of doing these. If not, /kick.

Still Number One · Mar 14, 2010, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaven

Maybe if more people were willing to show newbies an elite area, these places wouldn't be so dead.

The game is 5 years old. GW2 is around 1 year away from release. There is absolutely no benefit for an experienced player to help a newer one at this point in time. I'm sorry but if you are a newer player now, you're about 2 years too late.

And that isn't just for your elite PvE areas, it goes for high end PvP as well. The game is on its last legs and the majority of people are just buying time for their next fix. The PuG is dead and has been for over a year. It is no longer realistic to expect any PuG from any format to spend their time teaching newer players. PuGs simply have their goal to get the last bits of things they want out of this game before they leave it behind completely. The only feasible way for newer players to learn the game is to find an active and friendly guild dedicated to teaching them. If they can't find one or there are none, they will just have to accept the fact they joined the game when it was on the major decline and will have to deal with that fact.

Yea it sucks that the game is at this stage, but it is. People can try to deny it all they want but they are just lying to themselves.

Reformed · Mar 14, 2010, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaven

The community in this game is very unforgiving. No one is willing to teach a new player how to do anything. I agree with the concept that you need to learn with hero's and henchies instead of making a human team fail, but for some areas, that isn't an option. I can enter UW or FOW with 3 heroes and if I'm a good player, I can make some progress, but I can't clear.

This simply isn't true unless you are completely clueless about the run and are trying to lie your way into a high-end SC. It would save everyone involved time and aggravation if those who are new would just read the wiki, pvx or watch tube videos. You wouldn't be able to do Deep/Urgoz on your own either but the unofficial wiki at least has a very detailed writeup on the basic things to expect inside. It's the responsibility of the new person to read those things beforehand not for the group to slow down and teach as they go. It should be painfully (literally) obvious the first time they enter UW and get one-shotted by an Aatxe that this isn't Old Ascalon anymore.

colosusjokers · Mar 14, 2010, 11:30 PM // 23:30

I have been playing GW for 4 years now. Personally, the way I see it is that you shouldn't lie about experience to get into an area on any game.

I refuse to pay any heed to groups that say things that are condescending to newer players like "no noobs" or pull some e-peen crap like "pros only" on any game either. Now if the group leader says something along the lines of "experienced players only" I'll usually consider it as it is a more reasonable way to put it and therefor is massively more likely to be worth grouping with.

If you can't find anybody willing to take you under their wing and teach you a few things then don't worry about it. There are plenty of other things you can do in GW and you can always try partnering with a friend using heroes. You may not pull off a full clear but at least you get in, get to do a few things, have a nice challenge and get some ecto.

Another thing to keep in mind is that a player who isn't worth grouping with as a newbie isn't worth grouping with once you're more experienced either. A bit of reading, setting yourself up, watching a youtube video or two and trying it out with heroes and you should at least have enough of an idea to try it with a group of people for a full clear.

At this point if you end up joining a group with someone who you know had been cussing you out or some crap before because you were a newbie you should tell the group to either kick him or bribe you to stay. If they refuse to do either you can simply join a different group while they are forced to spend more time looking for someone else that meets their requirements.

UnChosen · Mar 15, 2010, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by madsGW

1. get a guild
2. uninstall

Quote:

Originally Posted by End

Sooo I heard about this super secret awesome thing...called a guild...

These kinds of comments are the reason I want stuff like SF UWSC and 600/Smite dungeon runs to be kept intact. These people are completely out of touch with reality.

Hello?! Guilds are composed of people too, and just like how there are like a thousand noobs to 1 exp players in PUGS, there are probably a hundred horrible or inactive guilds for every one that is decent. There is NOTHING preventing the bad players from forming a guild and "pretending" to be good, just like how people pretend to be good to get into pugs. Just being a guild doesn't make the people inside magically good.

-Makai- · Mar 15, 2010, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Number One

The game is 5 years old. GW2 is around 1 year away from release. There is absolutely no benefit for an experienced player to help a newer one at this point in time.

Other than being a nice guy/gal, right?

End · Mar 15, 2010, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

Hello?! Guilds are composed of people too, and just like how there are like a thousand noobs to 1 exp players in PUGS, there are probably a hundred horrible or inactive guilds for every one that is decent. There is NOTHING preventing the bad players from forming a guild and "pretending" to be good, just like how people pretend to be good to get into pugs. Just being a guild doesn't make the people inside magically good.

ok...your guild sucks? leave...

sthpaw · Mar 15, 2010, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Number One

The game is 5 years old. GW2 is around 1 year away from release. There is absolutely no benefit for an experienced player to help a newer one at this point in time. I'm sorry but if you are a newer player now, you're about 2 years too late.

And that isn't just for your elite PvE areas, it goes for high end PvP as well. The game is on its last legs and the majority of people are just buying time for their next fix. The PuG is dead and has been for over a year. It is no longer realistic to expect any PuG from any format to spend their time teaching newer players. PuGs simply have their goal to get the last bits of things they want out of this game before they leave it behind completely. The only feasible way for newer players to learn the game is to find an active and friendly guild dedicated to teaching them. If they can't find one or there are none, they will just have to accept the fact they joined the game when it was on the major decline and will have to deal with that fact.

Yea it sucks that the game is at this stage, but it is. People can try to deny it all they want but they are just lying to themselves.

oh really now?

funny that, i know some r7-12 hero that i help out completing elite areas that they never done and they in turn help out getting me fame and call tactics in gvg etc.
and just got our guild back in the ladder.

impulsion · Mar 15, 2010, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaven

The problem with this is that there are no teams willing to take a newbie and teach them. They want experienced pros and if you haven't cleared UW at least a couple hundred times then expect a swift kick from the team and a lot of cussing. That's why players like the noob in the OP lie.

Think of it from his perspective. Newbie Wammo fresh into Kryta asks to join an UW team. Says he can tank. A team accepts him and asks for build. He pings his wonderful mending/HB build that got him thru Ascalon alive and is cussed out and kicked.

He asks his guild what's a good UW build and they ping him a decent build. He spends a week acquiring the skills and tries again. He joins another team, pings his nice build and says he's looking forward to going to UW for the first time. He's cussed out again and kicked.

He joins yet another team. Says he's new to UW and wants to try out his new build. Team leader says NO NOOBS!!!! KICK!.

This time he joins the OP's team. They ask if he's experienced and he lies. He knows he'll be kicked if he doesn't. Can ya blame him?

The community in this game is very unforgiving. No one is willing to teach a new player how to do anything. I agree with the concept that you need to learn with hero's and henchies instead of making a human team fail, but for some areas, that isn't an option. I can enter UW or FOW with 3 heroes and if I'm a good player, I can make some progress, but I can't clear.

It's the responsibility of the team leader to make sure his team is prepared before you enter. If you want only pros then make it clear that you only want pros and check builds and knowledge beforehand. Ask questions. However also consider running sometimes with less knowledgable folks. Accept 1 or 2 "newbies" on the team. Ask them for their honest level of experience and tell them they won't be kicked if their honest and willing to learn. If they don't have a decent build then tell them they can't go but that you're willing to take them next week if they can get proper skills and equipment. Explain as you go and make sure they understand their function on the team. Most people are willing to learn.

Maybe if more people were willing to show newbies an elite area, these places wouldn't be so dead.

Why do people need to be taught? I started playing this game a good 3 years after the release, nobody taught me what to do I just taught myself. Skill in this game comes from an understanding of the game mechanics (95% of which you can learn from wiki), and knowledge of spawns/skills/map etc. If somebody is "teaching" you or helping you out, you aren't going to learn anything you couldn't find on youtube or wiki. Plus, you are limited by their personal experience, and how much detail they are going to go into.

If you want to learn about the UW, you look up solo farming builds on pvx and do them, learn what is what, use heroes whatever. Then, you look up youtube videos on how to do an UWSC area, then pay somebody to do it with you a few times. Then, you can go into UW with a group, look at what other people are doing, gain experience, blah blah blah, long story short you went from zero to hero and it wasn't that difficult.

Still Number One · Mar 15, 2010, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by sthpaw

and just got our guild back in the ladder.

Is that supposed to be impressive? Ladder hasn't meant a thing since they implemented the AT system. The only ranking system that matters in GvG is the mAT standings.

Not to mention as of this post there are 11 guilds on ladder with 0 wins and 1 loss. Anyone can make a guild, enter battle, and resign to get on ladder.

sthpaw · Mar 15, 2010, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Number One

Is that supposed to be impressive? Ladder hasn't meant a thing since they implemented the AT system. The only ranking system that matters in GvG is the mAT standings.

Not to mention as of this post there are 11 guilds on ladder with 0 wins and 1 loss. Anyone can make a guild, enter battle, and resign to get on ladder.

true its not now, but for a casual guild it is. have a look at our win/loss ratio320 wins 268 losses we had to tank our rating before to stand a chance since most were new to gvg as the older experienced gvgers left.
but thats not the point im saying mate and im not here to start an arguement.
all im saying it that it pays to help people out.

UnChosen · Mar 15, 2010, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by End

ok...your guild sucks? leave...

Talk about missing the point. My guild is that 1 in a hundred guild that is decent....which I can't say for the majority out there. Guild hopping and praying you get in one that actually do a variety of stuff is nearly as bad as spamming LFG and hoping to get into a good pug.