Curse

SlimChance · Apr 15, 2010, 04:42 PM // 16:42

You know I don't like all this talk of GW and F2P and microtransactions.

First GW is NOT a F2P game. I did pay for it, I purchased all the chapters and the GWEN expansion! I cannot praise ArenaNet enough for using the business model for GW and hopefully GW2. They realized the kind of game that they were building and determined that it didn't warrant a subscription or microtransactions.

If you think about it, GW is basically a "online only Diablo" (as far as design, access, teaming up, etc.). ArenaNet came from Blizzard, they helped create Diablo so using that model is not a stretch.

I also don't have a problem with the "promo's" that ArenaNet does with the online store. If I want to have a cool costumer or more char slots, I'll pay for them. As long as those items don't give anyone an unfair advantage, then fine. If a person wants to change their characters appearance or their char name, its nice that there's that option.

But I don't consider those things microtransactions.. "microtransactions" and "dlc" are dirty words.. and I'm afraid that the gaming industry as a whole is moving to that. And frankly, it pisses me off. We're getting games that have less content, cost more, then months after release, "magically" dlc is made available via "microtransactions".

I only hope ArenaNet sticks to their guns and follows the same model with GW2. The only change I would make is to NOT make the individual chapters stand alone games. That only seperates/confuses your player base. So for GW2, each chapter would be an expansion and the base GW2 would be required.

FireWhale · Apr 15, 2010, 07:09 PM // 19:09

There's a distinct difference in buying advantages and buying cosmetics. So far, all of the micro transactions are purely cosmetic. What everyone is asking for is advantages, like hero slots and what not. Adding such advantages in return for money would be a huge blow to the integrity of the game.

One may argue that the extra pane blurs the difference, and I'll grant that point. Space is money, after all. However I think the "advantage" is very very muted.

edit: oh heh. This point has been made already. should've looked at how many pages this had.

Ravious · Apr 15, 2010, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Hey, we could all be paying $25 for a horse in another game.

Gun Pierson · Apr 15, 2010, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aljasha

wait, what? you consider borderlands a piece of quality?

Funny, that's exactly the same thing some people said when GW was released.

NerfHerder · Apr 15, 2010, 09:10 PM // 21:10

I see alot of talk about microtransactions sustaining the game or keeping it alive. While I dont think this is true, it does supplement some income and give Anet an idea of how interested the base players are.

The way I see it, a F2P game is only sustainable(ie profitable) if you have at least one expansion pack per year. I wouldnt be surprised if ANet were simultaneously working on expansion packs for GW2, so we might even see the first expansion in about a year. Keep in mind I have no facts to back this up, just a hunch. Many of my in game friends would be happy to spend 50-100 bucks a year for expansions vs a monthly charge. I guess we can only wait to see if microtransactions will play a larger role in GW2. They are still keeping to thier word that GW2 will be F2P.
http://www.guildwars2.com/en/world/faq/#five

Im more than happy to buy a few cosmetic extras to show my support for a game I play almost daily.

The money isnt in the razor its in the blades.

Longasc · Apr 15, 2010, 09:43 PM // 21:43

I still do not like the trend.

There is still no single free costume in the game. Except the old festival head gears.
Cool stuff was rare drops and vanity armor before. Now the cool stuff "drops" for money in the store.

So what about GW2? The supposed best stuff is reserved for the store there, too? But it is optional, as usual. Let's see how far "optional" can go!

I won't get the cool things in future.
Some people will always buy item shop stuff, see Blizzard's 25$ horse.

"Premium" items come at amazing prices. Guild Wars 1 cost around 50 bucks initially, the trilogy by now can be obtained for some 10-20 AFAIK.

The price for the vanity costumes is approximately in this range. Think this makes GW either have an unbeatable bang for the buck or costumes really expensive.

I will wait for GW's 5th birtday, and if they then sell the White Mantle Knight's Armor as well, then I am afraid for GW2 and the future. I would probably itch so much for some costumes that I will rather deinstall and stop playing the game before falling for the "it's only a few bucks" crap over and over.

Commander Kanen · Apr 16, 2010, 02:57 AM // 02:57

/agree with Longasc

agrios · Apr 16, 2010, 04:17 PM // 16:17

I tottaly support microtrans to keep a game if:

- It does not make the buyers overpowered
- It can be used to save time
- It has reasonable prices

Theres a lot of things that GW player base would glady pay for ANet...its just a matter of asking them..

Aleta · Apr 16, 2010, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

I still do not like the trend.

There is still no single free costume in the game. Except the old festival head gears.
Cool stuff was rare drops and vanity armor before. Now the cool stuff "drops" for money in the store.

So what about GW2? The supposed best stuff is reserved for the store there, too? But it is optional, as usual. Let's see how far "optional" can go!

I won't get the cool things in future.
Some people will always buy item shop stuff, see Blizzard's 25$ horse.

"Premium" items come at amazing prices. Guild Wars 1 cost around 50 bucks initially, the trilogy by now can be obtained for some 10-20 AFAIK.

The price for the vanity costumes is approximately in this range. Think this makes GW either have an unbeatable bang for the buck or costumes really expensive.

I will wait for GW's 5th birtday, and if they then sell the White Mantle Knight's Armor as well, then I am afraid for GW2 and the future. I would probably itch so much for some costumes that I will rather deinstall and stop playing the game before falling for the "it's only a few bucks" crap over and over.

I honestly don't see why it's a big deal. Same crying went on when SOE put in the Station marketplace. You buy Station cash with real money and then buy the fluff stuff. It's an option. Nothing wrong with options as far as I can see. I dearly love appearance only armor and am glad the costumes are in the store. Will I put the costume on the toons that have elite armor? Probably sometimes. And yes it is only a few bucks. Same as saying let's go to the movies or buy the pay per view on the cable it's only a few bucks. So I've entertained myself with a few bucks. /shrug

The Drunkard · Apr 16, 2010, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

I will wait for GW's 5th birtday, and if they then sell the White Mantle Knight's Armor as well, then I am afraid for GW2 and the future. I would probably itch so much for some costumes that I will rather deinstall and stop playing the game before falling for the "it's only a few bucks" crap over and over.

They are still releasing new hats for the people who don't want to pay in the online store. There is no benifit from the costumes aside from ascetics, and the "coolness" factor is completly subjective. As long as there's new items that are being released that are either free or cost a sum and have no effect on the game, I fail to see why people are should remain upset. After all, if they really wanted the items from the online store they should pay for it.

Martin Alvito · Apr 16, 2010, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleta

Nothing wrong with options as far as I can see.

A typically American (or classical economics) way to look at it, but there is good research out there that proves this just isn't the case. It's possible to overwhelm people with options to the point that they are uncomfortable or make poor decisions.

A thought experiment may help you understand why people hate microtransactions in particular. Suppose Guild Wars added an item broadly considered desirable that costs $1,000 to the online store. Would you be irritated when you encountered an owner of that item in-game?

To a lesser degree, that's how the people that hate microtransactions feel when they see something that costs $10 in the online store.

It boils down to a question of how you think loot should be allocated in these games. Some people think they should be able to buy what they want. Other people want a world where they can completely shed RL considerations such as money. There's no way to reconcile these competing viewpoints; the disagreement is fundamental.

Jecht Scye · Apr 16, 2010, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Ugh, another useless costume update. And to think, I almost became interested again when this "viral campaign" began. Thanks, but no thanks Anet.

This is why I hated this sort of transaction from the moment of the release of the first costume pack. As I said in threads previously - If Anet only has to release half-assed sets of armors to grab your money, why be innovative? Why make an effort? Purchasing this ridiculous micro-transaction will only mean they thought it was a success, and they'll do it more. If you want my money, make another expansion pack (with unique armor models) or it's simply not worth it.

Mokeiro · Apr 16, 2010, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Be careful Longasc

It seems like you have a brain and know how to use it, a lot of people on this forum doesn't like that and will call you bad things.

Rocky Raccoon · Apr 18, 2010, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

To a lesser degree, that's how the people that hate microtransactions feel when they see something that costs $10 in the online store..

Yet, these same people probably have no problem throwing $10 at Ronald MacDonald or the Burger King and get nothing tangible except hundreds of calories.

Gun Pierson · Apr 18, 2010, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocky Raccoon

Yet, these same people probably have no problem throwing $10 at Ronald MacDonald or the Burger King and get nothing tangible except hundreds of calories.

The difference is that when I go to a star restaurant, I don't expect to see a Macdonald's burger served on my plate.

Ravious · Apr 18, 2010, 05:29 PM // 17:29

If you get anything less than a plate of sauteed green beans at a "star restaurant" for $10 then you aren't really eating at one. Are ya?

Gun Pierson · Apr 18, 2010, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravious

If you get anything less than a plate of sauteed green beans at a "star restaurant" for $10 then you aren't really eating at one. Are ya?

Except that other restaurants offer a nice menu for those 10 bucks like I posted earlier in this thread.

Ariovist Lynxkind · Apr 18, 2010, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlimChance

First GW is NOT a F2P game.

Actually... It is. The term F2P is a reference not to initial purchase but ongoing fees. Though yes, you initially shelled out X amount of your local currency, you don't need to pay monthly fees for the game, so is considered to fall into the F2P category.

JR · Apr 18, 2010, 07:53 PM // 19:53

I'll preface this by saying, as others have, that I have absolutely zero problem with ArenaNet finding ways to help fund their development. I've sunk a decent amount of money into copies of the game and bits of merchandise for this reason.

That all said, I have my concerns about these costumes.

A PCGamer Article sums up my first point nicely. This quote in particular:

Quote:

I worry that by simply converting vanity pets and mounts into a straight paid-for transaction, Blizzard are cutting off a route to reward their community. I wish that, as they put the Celestial Mount on the store, they'd also offered a similar, but even rarer mount as a reward to anyone who was featured in their fan art gallery. Or for the best machinima.

Throwing these costumes in the store and leaving it at that feels like a poor use of resources. The whole purely aesthetic costume concept lends its self perfectly to things like veteran rewards, tournament rewards... and so on. It's a great opportunity to strengthen your community at next to no cost. Some are given out to fansites for give-aways or contests which is great step that we appreciate hugely (details coming soon), but there's a lot more that could be done.

With every new costume introduced, set aside 5 that you give to notable individuals with some design alterations or additional branding to make them stand out. When a guild wins a tournament give those players each a slightly altered costume of some kind, like a uniform for their core players. Just examples, but you get the picture - micro-transaction material should be more than just PlayNC store fodder. You've already put in the leg-work to make the costumes, and for a bit more thought and a days extra work for an artist you could do a lot to increase their impact.

From a psychological point it also makes them much more appealing. They aren't just being made to rake in money, they are also being made to reward members of the community. So they put them on sale too, who cares?

My second issue is with ArenaNet's sincerity with these micro-transaction additions; how much effort has gone in, and how much they really contribute to either side.

These costumes are rather nonchalant dip into micro-transactions, and I'm not sure what their reasoning is. If Guild Wars 2 is to rely heavily on micro-transactions then it will be a whole different playing field (far more infrastructure around micro-transactions), and any experience gained from this dabbling will be worthless - assuming this is for testing purposes. It had occurred to me that perhaps the costumes were just a way to fund the live team's operations, but I doubt it's even paid the salary of one junior staff member. It still helps with funding I suppose, but if it's funding you are after then there are much stronger ways of going after it.

How about this: Instead of using highly priced trivial aesthetic items (usually found for cents in an item store) as the basis of your micro-transaction dabbling, use real content. Package all of the 'Guild Wars: Beyond' content into individual DLC packages and sell them for $10 each, and give the costumes as a sweetner. Actual gameplay content would be a lot more attractive to a much broader audience, giving you a stronger business case for dedicating resources to it.

So long story short: I haven't bought all of the costumes because the whole thing feels half-assed. Don't get me wrong, the costumes look great, it's the implementation that bothers me. I can't help feeling that much greater things could have been achieved for all sides, had the thought and effort been put into it.

Ravious · Apr 18, 2010, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

How about this: Instead of using highly priced trivial aesthetic items (usually found for cents in an item store) as the basis of your micro-transaction dabbling, use real content. Package all of the 'Guild Wars: Beyond' content into individual DLC packages and sell them for $10 each, and give the costumes as a sweetner. Actual gameplay content would be a lot more attractive to a much broader audience.

I've wondered this too, and I think I mentioned in this thread or another on GWG that I was curious as to why in the recent Linsey interview she didn't say "free update" a million times.

Regardless, my theory is that the infrastructure was just gone for making BMP type additions after the one BMP. They moved just about everything over to GW2, which was originally intended to be out by now. If they had not been so quick to ditch GW1 for GW2 content development, I too believe that they could have really done a lot more to gain income from the long tail. My only logical conclusion is that they really thought GW2 would "destroy" the GW1 fanbase to the point where any further content development on GW1 would be harmful to the bottom line.