Curse

Sankt Hallvard · Apr 23, 2010, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Another buff to hexes. I'm unimpressed.

Shayne Hawke · Apr 23, 2010, 10:14 PM // 22:14

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All of those are things we’ve been considering for major updates of their own.

So now, not only are updates set to still be infrequent, but will only be focused on one profession or playstyle buff at one time.

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without introducing excessive power creep into the game

It's like there's no recognition of players already being stupidly powerful with everything they have.

Not like I'm concerned with Mesmers getting a buff in PvE. With all the discussion that's been tossed around it, I'm beginning to agree that they need help. However, to just be continuing with buffs to every class doesn't seem like a very good idea.

Sounds like it's time for another lengthy suggestion thread in Sardelac concerning the strengths of PvE-only skills. I'll get right on that after the racing holiday passes.

aspi · Apr 23, 2010, 10:16 PM // 22:16

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Originally Posted by End

ummm....you do relise the update hasn't gone through yet right?

on a side note....yeah power creep moar?

No I didn't, ok so this means even harder mindblades. :S

shadows of hob · Apr 23, 2010, 10:18 PM // 22:18

I don't care what we do with all these OP looking mesmer skills, at least if we keep them PvE only!

Infanta · Apr 23, 2010, 10:22 PM // 22:22

I really like the idea of making the mesmer style of play effective for PvE, I just don't want to see mesmers turn into button spammers like most other classes are.

I would personally prefer to see most other classes nerfed to the level mesmers are at currently, then mesmers buffed to the level of other classes, but with PvE skills already in place it doesn't matter much anyways. I can see this changing the meta quite a bit though.

Test Me · Apr 23, 2010, 10:23 PM // 22:23

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These will NOT include major changes to the Dervish (and in particular scythes), non-“Imbagon” Paragons, and the smiting line for the Monk. All of those are things we’ve been considering for major updates of their own. None are far enough along to be a part of this update.

What's wrong with smite Mo (better than ele btw)? Which reminds me... what about ele in HM?

drkn · Apr 23, 2010, 10:27 PM // 22:27

No high hopes before the update comes in the final version, but i have to admit - i start to regain trust and hopes in ANet and TK.

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However, to just be continuing with buffs to every class doesn't seem like a very good idea.

Though at this state of the game, it's much easier - and much more realistic - to buff what needs to be buffed in order to balance it rather than nerf everything around it to balance things out.
If you weren't making mesmer another DD with some unique support skills, you would have to redesign all other classes and a big part of the gameplay itself in order to get everything in it's place - fun, playable and quite balanced. I hope for it in GW2, but i think that everything is fine for GW1 as long as it serves a good purpose - tweaking meta, buffing underpowered, nerfing overpowered, balancing and improving, giving us new content and having much better communication between ANet/TK and the playerbase than it used to be about a year ago.

Thumbs up.

MagmaRed · Apr 23, 2010, 10:33 PM // 22:33

As already mentioned, there needs to be a correlation to Fast Casting to make these Mesmer changes instead of secondary Mesmer changes. Power creep is fun, but quickly becomes boring. I like some of the ideas for some of these skills, but the more impressive thing I saw was the change to the casting buff the HM creatures get. Since interruption is so hard in HM, this will make it more likely to be used, especially with some of the skill changes like Frustration and Migraine. And I hope they tested the monster groups very well. As noted, the Windriders will be much harder as they have Cry of Frustration and come in groups of 3-6. And there are others to be concerned about, mainly because of the large numbers more than the skills. Breeze Keepers having Migraine, Wastrel's Worry, and Empathy will make some Ring of Fire areas a nightmare. And the Jotuns, which come (usually) in pairs of Bladturners and Mindbreakers won't be too easy to tackle with Frustration, Ineptidude, Arcane Conundrum, and Visions of Regret. I don't mind seeing some of those changes on Mesmer monsters, but when there are large groups of them it can become very difficult. As long as they test those groups well, and know it won't require some gimmick to get through them, I'll be ok with it.

expugnare · Apr 23, 2010, 10:34 PM // 22:34

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Originally Posted by Test Me

what about ele in HM?

I agree, I didn't roll an Ele to fill a Monk's role.

mage767 · Apr 23, 2010, 10:35 PM // 22:35

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Originally Posted by Abedeus

GHAHHGHGHGHHGAHHGHAHGHAGA

Psychic Instability = for every 10 seconds, enemies are knocked down for 4. Woah. Also Stolen Speed is nice on a Hero, to make sure every enemy is hexed and give your allies Fast Casting. Now Mesmer will boost party DPS too...

Migraine = woah. Slow downs everything PLUS it's a Dazed but harder to remove.

Thanks for listening to atleast one of my suggestions (psychic instatbility):

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...8&postcount=21

Axel Zinfandel · Apr 23, 2010, 10:43 PM // 22:43

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Originally Posted by expugnare

I agree, I didn't roll an Ele to do a Monk's role.

I would have to definitely agree that Ele's should be higher on the list than smite monks. Hell, these buffs to mesmer even make ele damage in NORMAL mode inferior. Smite monks have Strength of Honor at the VERY least.

agrios · Apr 23, 2010, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Some are nice, some are too much win.

Of course Mesmers needed some AoE effects and more ways too improve interrupting. But some of the "ajustments" are more powerful than needed. Namely ...Migraine.

I get the picture of increasing degen on some skills, to make them work better on the HP sacks that are some hi-level foes. Problem is players are not HP sacks...this degen will totally pwns players when cast from mobs in HM. The things go even worse when DP comes into play. This will have to be tested more.

Overall more nice changes than bad ones. But the bad ones are scaring me, and note the fact I have a PVE Mesmer.

One thing still worries me, there was no word about energy management. With reduced recharges Mezzies will burn mana even faster.

FoxBat · Apr 23, 2010, 10:49 PM // 22:49

I'm guessing they mean "make a direct-damage smite skill thats worth using besides ray of judgement" but that doesn't really seem like a great or needed idea to me, with smiters already being fairly good without it. As mentioned eles should be promoted as HM nukers and monks as HM healers, not the other way around.

I don't know if they are testing anything like this, but something like fast casting giving you energy every time you interrupt a spell (or through an ignored fast casting skill) could be interesting.

drkn · Apr 23, 2010, 10:58 PM // 22:58

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Of course Mesmers needed some AoE effects and more ways too improve interrupting. But some of the "ajustments" are more powerful than needed. Namely ...Migraine.

While mesmer monsters might become more powerful than needed, mesmer players shouldn't. At least basing on what we've been given so far.
I don't know what's your real experience on mesmer in high-end PvE - having one doesn't mean you know that class and played it long enough; i have and play a paragon but i'm not the one to judge the upcoming updates too much - but compare the incoming mesmer possibilities with most current meta builds of other classes (not to mention meta team builds). Mesmer is simply catching up with the creep now.

Every other class has 'more powerful than needed' skills already and while i agree that it would be better to redesign all classes and the gameplay itself, it's probably impossible because of the team's limitations.

Side note: as mentioned earlier, keep in mind that it's primairy mesmers that need love, mostly, and FC is actually crappy and redundant in PvE, especially after introduction of Mindbender. While i'm not the biggest fan of changing FC itself, seeing skills having higher (or even better: additional) benefits from high FC would be awesome.
An example (just to point out the view) is to add an additional effect on Channeling, allowing x party members to gain energy as well for every 2x in FC. No buff for secondary mesmers, possibly great buff for primairy mesmers in terms of support.

kvndoom · Apr 23, 2010, 11:10 PM // 23:10

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Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

Most of those need to be pve-only, as they've already had to be nerfed in pvp (or still need to be).

You know the only PVP I ever used to do anymore was RA, and the 2008 Empathy buff is the sole reason I stopped doing even that. FFS if they buff it anymore in PVP it needs to be a freaking elite.

FengShuiDove · Apr 23, 2010, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Oh my gosh. I read Migraine wrong the first time. 100% slow down AND easily interruptable on spells? That thing is a boss killer if I've ever seen one...

Axel Zinfandel · Apr 23, 2010, 11:22 PM // 23:22

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Originally Posted by FengShuiDove

Oh my gosh. I read Migraine wrong the first time. 100% slow down AND easily interruptable on spells? That thing is a boss killer if I've ever seen one...

Yeah, it's essentially like an uber hex-formed daze

~ Angel ~ · Apr 23, 2010, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Yay, nice to see some mesmer love!

TheGuildWarsPenguin · Apr 23, 2010, 11:29 PM // 23:29

PvE only + nerf/balance mesmer enemies (Wind riders, etc.)

Buff everyone else to match Mesmers now.

Raynb · Apr 23, 2010, 11:43 PM // 23:43

WOW, really nice changes! Makes me really wish to play as a Mesmer at PvE and things look nice on the future!

But I have to ask something to Regina or some at A.net. Most of the significant damage changes goes in one of the attribute lines that any secondary Mesmer have access to, and especially in illusion attribute with lots of new powerfull skills.

Have A.net tought in the really big possibility of anyone with Mesmer as secondary profession being equally able and efficient to play the role of a Mesmer primary at High-End PvE? (Cry of Pain being one good example of it btw)

Can something be done so when the balance finally goes live primary Mesmers have a considerable advantage over secondaries using Mesmers skills?

Sorry if I was hard to understand but I got really worried with this issue and I hope A.net can give some attention at this. And once again, thanks for this nice Mesmer balance