Curse

Martin Alvito · May 21, 2010, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by To Chicken To Die

So if a team like that can make 11 victory then why can't any other team?

I think you're misunderstanding the incentive system here.

You went 11 wins. You got 3 glad points.

But your run was a major outlier. You clearly faced the right teams in succession. You can win with a four melee/physicals team if everyone is good; you can beat monks if you have enough disruption. But if you face a hexway, you're dead. More often than not, you'll run into that hexway before you get to the fifth match. You'll almost always face it before getting to ten.

Now, for twice as much time investment, a player can get nineteen glad points if they can find a team that can go 25.

What that means is that for players that want to make the title track bar go up as fast as possible, time invested in lucking into pairing with a balanced, high quality team is time well spent. Time spent helping a mediocre team win matches is not time well spent.

The problem is the changes to the title track that were made when TA was removed. The new point system places too great an emphasis on long runs, which promotes the evils of syncing, leaving and mailing it in. Costume Brawl has the same problems.

Remove /resign, and people will AFK. If /report starts seeing use, they'll just play badly. If you still /report for bad play, you'll be the one that gets banned for abusing /report. You can't win.

Greedy Gus · May 21, 2010, 08:49 PM // 20:49

You have to just understand that people play RA for a variety of different reasons. Some want to test builds, some like the challenge of random builds against each other, some want to grind a title, etc.

Personally I'm looking for as close to a TA environment as I can find, while still entering on my own because I don't have the guildies on to GvG. So I want to find a decently balanced team with streak potential to face other challenging teams and actually play what I consider guildwars (instead of some weird pump damage and kill whoever runs in first crap), and my main goal is minimizing time wasted otherwise. I have zero interest spending any more time than I have to on a bad team for the challenge of winning with a weird composition & improvised teamwork, but I understand that players exist who only want that. No one is really right or wrong because the format can support these varied goals, but everyone does have to slog through some downtime in finding a team that's with them.

It's also definitely possible for anet to specialize RA more for one of those goals with some changes to the format. You would lose the people playing it for other reasons but make a subset happier.

To Chicken To Die · May 21, 2010, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

I think you're misunderstanding the incentive system here.

You went 11 wins. You got 3 glad points.

But your run was a major outlier. You clearly faced the right teams in succession. You can win with a four melee/physicals team if everyone is good; you can beat monks if you have enough disruption. But if you face a hexway, you're dead. More often than not, you'll run into that hexway before you get to the fifth match. You'll almost always face it before getting to ten.

Now, for twice as much time investment, a player can get nineteen glad points if they can find a team that can go 25.

What that means is that for players that want to make the title track bar go up as fast as possible, time invested in lucking into pairing with a balanced, high quality team is time well spent. Time spent helping a mediocre team win matches is not time well spent.

The problem is the changes to the title track that were made when TA was removed. The new point system places too great an emphasis on long runs, which promotes the evils of syncing, leaving and mailing it in. Costume Brawl has the same problems.

Remove /resign, and people will AFK. If people start using /report, they'll just play badly. If you still /report, you'll be the one that gets banned for abusing /report. You can't win.

I agree on you about the bad title track and point gaining. And syncing is indeed giving yourself the major disadventage. But isn't that another part of random that you might be lucky to face less balanced team? I mean sync teams might face sync teams aswell. But the main problem is that you don't know what your teammates are capable of nor there skillbar. And if we do not include botting such as monks then a bad monk is even a disadventage low armor bad healing or non at all and 1 person with dmg thats almost not even to be seen as dmg. Even then you might not find out that he is bad cus after 3 wins you might find a decent dmg team thats kills you. I just think that the decision to resign is made to fast and getting worse. (like using holy veil or cure hex might make some decide to rage quit). And as far I see if you think your wasting your time you might aswell not play either RA or a game. Wasting team meanes you had something betters to do but decide to change prioritys and choose to wrong thing to do (thats what I think)

Edit: About hexway if your only or mostly melee that also means a part of there build like backfire are very usless and ranger/sin/war/para can interupt and deal at the same time lot of dmg to low armors. You might not be the favorite to win but that does not give that you can't win. It is indeed impossible to avoid/disrupt all hexes and the death of a teammate but fast res can might get you to victory. Ofcourse this works better when your all with more exp people that dont all ball on a monk that uses anti-melee 24/7 while a fire ele nukes you and a mesmer/necro hexes everyone. But you don't know how exp they are

Sarevok Thordin · May 21, 2010, 09:25 PM // 21:25

I don't have much of a problem with it, when the defeatist attitude comes about the soon to be doomed team is taken out of play quickly anyway.

The problem comes on that RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing killcount map, GET RID OF IT.

To Chicken To Die · May 21, 2010, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin

The problem comes on that RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing killcount map, GET RID OF IT.

I prefere if that map got changed to a something like a team loses if the difference in kill is bigger then "X", Or if the differnce is not made then the time limit will make the winner and then sudden death as final decision instead of the almighty Deleted button.

Olof · May 21, 2010, 09:44 PM // 21:44

On that map 2 balanced teams can make for a very exciting match.

2 imbalanced teams and its awful. RA in a nutshell.

Martin Alvito · May 21, 2010, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by To Chicken To Die

And as far I see if you think your wasting your time you might aswell not play either RA or a game. Wasting team meanes you had something betters to do but decide to change prioritys and choose to wrong thing to do (thats what I think)

Gus is correct to state that not everyone plays GW the same way. You want to win every match. Not everyone cares about that. The hardcore title farmers want to make the bar go up. Trying hard every match can get in the way of that. Remember, the hardcore title farmer is trying to maximize the rate at which they convert time into title track points. The scenario you describe doesn't do that.

As far as unknown capabilities: in most PvP communities, the top players at least recognize one another and many of them chat. Those players are looking to draw as many other players from that group (in a balanced configuration) as possible in their teams. Once that happens, they don't need to worry about this issue. In my experience, if you have three top quality players you can carry the fourth member in RA (the same is true for one mediocre player in any randomly paired format like Snowball Arena or Dragon Arena).

On hexway: It doesn't matter how good your team is. There is so much good, dedicated anti-physical hate in the game right now that you will run into a team that can dominate four physicals well before you hit 25 wins.

To Chicken To Die · May 21, 2010, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olof

On that map 2 balanced teams can make for a very exciting match.

2 imbalanced teams and its awful. RA in a nutshell.

If more people would think that balanced teams are ver excited in 4 vs 4 matches then TA would have been more active

Terrible Surgeon · May 21, 2010, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Resigning isn't a problem unless you get people who won't resign with you. People who leave before time is more of a problem that anything and syncing/botting is a problem.

Overall, nothing will probably be done to fix the arena. My suggestion, resign when the people on your team resign or they will just suicide anyway. Reporting them for leeching never works, i get reported all the time and never get a DH.

To Chicken To Die · May 21, 2010, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrible Surgeon

Resigning isn't a problem unless you get people who won't resign with you. People who leave before time is more of a problem that anything and syncing/botting is a problem.

Overall, nothing will probably be done to fix the arena. My suggestion, resign when the people on your team resign or they will just suicide anyway. Reporting them for leeching never works, i get reported all the time and never get a DH.

And thats the sad part you cant forge people to play but you can forge people to lose without facing a penalty on long terms. And that the dishonerd status weres off when your not online, inactive or just not in PvP makes it sort of useless.

pinkeyflower · May 22, 2010, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Not resigning when it's obvious you're going to lose is far more annoying.