Curse

oscarmk · May 11, 2010, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oscura_Th

/signed

And I got an idea, as far as I know, bots can't understand NPC dialogue.
So why not add a (sphinx - )NPC, which appears at random after entering a map, which asks a riddle
(having more than one riddle, of course. more like a huge amount of riddles, to stop guessing. and not very complicated ones so even 12 year old kids can solve them)
If a player doesn't answer correctly or leaves radar range, he (dies / cannot move for x min / gets DP / gets teleported to the last outpost / whatever) and gets a point. a correct answer removes a point. 10 points result in a ban.
players can either read and understand the riddle and solve it or else check the wiki.
since it randomly appears (20% chance or something) and correct answers remove points, banning not-botting players shouldn't happen too often.
and since bots do their thing all day and night long, their chance of getting caught by the sphinx is high enough.

This works just fine, but I don't this much is required, something simpler could be done to stop the bots. Additionally this would only stop the grinding bots, not the pvp bots, since the pvp bots, are actually controlled by a person on the movement, and only the interrupts are controlled by the bot. In order to stop this pvp bots, only some active check on all the programs/scripts the player is running at the same time he is running guild wars would work, that or stop the injection.

snaek · May 11, 2010, 05:47 PM // 17:47

@hb and bots: macros and scripts (some of which may be considered "bot-like") to enhance player ability were already being used in hb before it was taken down. as well from this, many people were also running "enter" (or afk) bots--they didnt fight, rather they took advantage of /roll and red resign. not quite as good as the interrupt bots that can be seen today, but given time to develop they could have become quite powerful.

ladder and mat was a good concept for those who taken hb seriously. for those that didn't, they were able to farm commander points and zkeys through various exploits/cheats. theres a lot of fishy stuff going on in gvg with champ point farming too, but i don't think it ever got the retardness level of hb.

Jk)Phoenix · May 11, 2010, 06:32 PM // 18:32

/signed

12chars

Fluffy Kittens · May 11, 2010, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Btw, faced another arcane echo Pblock mesmer in HA

Pblocked the prot on his guardian (1/2 cast) and pblocked me on 1/2 cure hex, both within 2-3 seconds. A wipe was eminent

Hmm.. I heard fake cast > pb mez, no matter if bot or korean micro or just a random rupt. But well... you might learn to play some day. Don't lose hope, we all believe in you!!!11

By the way trading many botter names with screen of admitting them that they use bot for my acc back! (to anet)

lishi · May 11, 2010, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

Hmm.. I heard fake cast > pb mez, no matter if bot or korean micro or just a random rupt. But well... you might learn to play some day. Don't lose hope, we all believe in you!!!11

By the way trading many botter names with screen of admitting them that they use bot for my acc back! (to anet)

Clearly people don't have any idea and mental flexibility to understand a thing.

here what could happen

You cast guardian, you cancel guardian on middle cast.

Those are the possibility :

1) The bot didn't event started to cast interupt -> you wasted 5 energy plus the guy who needed guardian is getting pwned.
2) the bot started to cast interupt but notice you cancelled he cancel too. You will get interupted your next spell, meanwhile the guy who needed guardian is getting pwned.
3) you cancelled too late, you got powerblocked. your team will likely get pwend.
4) Apparently you timed your cancel on time so that it landed exactly not only when the bot cancel but also in that small amount of time where his ping didn't allow him to cancel in time. Hurra! that is very unlikely. But notice how the guy who needed guardian still need guardian.

Now, you will say that a bot bla bla is stupid bla bla will always interrupt at same time etc.

Clearly you are more stupid then the bot, because a bot is stupid or flexible as much his programmer made him. And anyone who can code a bot, can make sure the bot randomize his interrupt moment.

Eragon Zarroc · May 11, 2010, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

....full team of HA farming bots.

ummm, right...

lol, whatever u say dude :-P

Vazze · May 11, 2010, 08:59 PM // 20:59

woa, nice work botmakers! Haha. Other than that, dead game is dead but: hope to see this fixed in GW2.

For example get rid of the whole interrupt crap, it is stupid. Human reaction time is nowhere near lag/ping. Differences between good and bad likewise.

Nerel · May 11, 2010, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oscura_Th

/signed

And I got an idea, as far as I know, bots can't understand NPC dialogue.
So why not add a (sphinx - )NPC, which appears at random after entering a map, which asks a riddle
(having more than one riddle, of course. more like a huge amount of riddles, to stop guessing. and not very complicated ones so even 12 year old kids can solve them)
If a player doesn't answer correctly or leaves radar range, he (dies / cannot move for x min / gets DP / gets teleported to the last outpost / whatever) and gets a point. a correct answer removes a point. 10 points result in a ban.
players can either read and understand the riddle and solve it or else check the wiki.
since it randomly appears (20% chance or something) and correct answers remove points, banning not-botting players shouldn't happen too often.
and since bots do their thing all day and night long, their chance of getting caught by the sphinx is high enough.

Yeah, this won't help at all... the bots will just be scripted to recognize and answer the 'riddles' and their ability to answer them correctly will coincide with the wiki user's ability to catalogue all the riddles...

I understand the concept of using a random question to catch bots off guard, but truly the list of random questions would need to be both astronomical in scope and plainly simple in difficulty.

A game that was actively being supported by a support team capable of devising and implementing a slew of new questions EVERY SINGLE DAY would likely be effective at catching bots, Guild Wars is not that game.

The people who create these bots adapt and overcome, a simple set of riddles/questions would be a trifling obstacle.

Mireles · May 11, 2010, 10:03 PM // 22:03

I think those images of skewed random sequences of numbers and/or letters your required to enter would be more practical than riddles, many websites use this to prevent bots from registering on forums and websites to post spam.

Sarevok Thordin · May 11, 2010, 10:06 PM // 22:06

/signed
I'm sick and tired of the interrupt bots in RA.

Go to hell all of you who use it.

Karate Jesus · May 11, 2010, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc

ummm, right...

lol, whatever u say dude :-P

It's true. There's already a script for a 4-bot HA team out. It wont be long before they will be able to run full teams.

As a matter of fact, there's a GvG bot project in the works now that plans on doing a 6-bot/2-man team. Basically, the 6 bots would play at the stand, and the 2-man team would run flags and gank. It's rather ambitious, and may not work, but it's got some serious support and they want it done.

If that works, it will basically be a new way to farm champ points.

Eragon Zarroc · May 11, 2010, 10:58 PM // 22:58

just sounds a little far fetched...honestly...

Karate Jesus · May 11, 2010, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc

just sounds a little far fetched...honestly...

I'd link you the thread where they're planning it, but I'm not allowed to mention the site, so I assume linking to it would earn a ban as well.

Just trust me when I say, it looks like they're going to get it done. They've already gotten the basic coding done. It may still not happen, but there are some smart guys working on it.

Danny Used Frenzy · May 11, 2010, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc

just sounds a little far fetched...honestly...

As the designer of the project, it isn't very far-fetched. Cloud averages for positioning, skill prioritization, kiting and response - it's all currently being worked out.

I figure if a team of bots farming GvG doesn't drag ANet out into the open on this topic, nothing will.

I think part of the problem that people don't understand with botters is that we're not dumb, farm-oriented people. And we're not closed off, either. If you know where to find us (which isn't too hard), we're very open about everything.

We don't bot around-the-clock. For the most part, we don't bot on mains. And, most importantly, the people behind the scripts are intelligent. Until ANet implements some sort of hash-checking feature, bots will just keep getting smarter and overcome anything ArenaNet throws at them.

I mean, even a hash-check would be simple to beat. Excessively simple.

I hate to say it, but unless ANet comes up with something amazing, they're better off giving Harboe his 500 euros to stop maintaining

snaek · May 12, 2010, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by danny used frenzy

I think part of the problem that people don't understand with botters is that we're not dumb, farm-oriented people. And we're not closed off, either. If you know where to find us (which isn't too hard), we're very open about everything.

i dont think this is the general viewpoint at all. theres a difference between people in the bot "scene" who are familiar with programming and write bots/scripts/macros, and the "mainstream" user who googles and downloads bots to use without fully understanding how they work.

one of the problems is how widely distributed and how easily obtained these bots are. and of course the other side of the problem being how nothing is being done about em.

Septeric · May 12, 2010, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Quote:

I hate to say it, but unless ANet comes up with something amazing, they're better off giving Harboe his 500 euros to stop maintaining GWCA.

WOW

but true....

raskofshadows · May 12, 2010, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

i dont think this is the general viewpoint at all. theres a difference between people in the bot "scene" who are familiar with programming and write bots/scripts/macros, and the "mainstream" user who googles and downloads bots to use without fully understanding how they work.

Mostly true. Leechers learn overtime however.
Also why has no one bothered to mention the fact that GUILDWARS IS A DEAD GAME GUILDWARS IS A DEAD GAME GUILDWARS IS A DEAD GAME.(lol?)

AtomicMew · May 12, 2010, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

Yeah, this won't help at all... the bots will just be scripted to recognize and answer the 'riddles' and their ability to answer them correctly will coincide with the wiki user's ability to catalogue all the riddles...

I understand the concept of using a random question to catch bots off guard, but truly the list of random questions would need to be both astronomical in scope and plainly simple in difficulty.

A game that was actively being supported by a support team capable of devising and implementing a slew of new questions EVERY SINGLE DAY would likely be effective at catching bots, Guild Wars is not that game.

The people who create these bots adapt and overcome, a simple set of riddles/questions would be a trifling obstacle.

Agreed, that won't help at all. Bots are a problem, but "bots" e.g., interrupt bots, infuse bots won't be affected at all.

AtomicMew · May 12, 2010, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elnino

LOL, you seriously think a bot can:
-react to the unlimited number of possible tactics in HB?
-control all 3 heroes to react to everything your opponent does?
-deciding who should go where?
-successfully counter your opponents build/tactics?

Bots don't have human intuition; your argument is invalid

Wow, you're terribly bad at logic. "Intuition" lol.

There is nothing uniquely "human" about winning at guild wars PvP. There are actually a very limited amount of character states in the game. For example: there are like ~100 skills that can knockdown, but in the end, they are all still knockdowns. In other words, you don't need to program a response to each 100 different skills. Rather, compile a list of KD skills and program a single response to KDs.

AI has come a very long way in gaming. I could cite examples, but I that argument really shouldnt have to be made. It is simply a fact that AI can (easily) be created for any number of games that would wipe the floor with its human counterparts. Furthermore, Guild Wars - it's phase-based; it has no z-axis.

From looking at existing bots, it's already clear that bots can be made by complete programming amateurs that would basically render human players obsolete. Bots can: play RA monk better than all human players (current bot is not quite there yet), interrupt perfectly, infuse perfectly, play BB sin completely autonomously. Yes, there was actually a bot for BB sins.

FoxBat · May 12, 2010, 06:27 AM // 06:27

While I'm as concerned as anyone about all this bot rampage, they are not going to be able to farm champ points with AFK bots. You need to be a 1200 guild vs a 1200 guild, you won't keep your 1200 long after several losses, and you will lose to even other 1200 guildsellers that aren't running AFKbots. Some lame build that abuses bot interrupts, maybe. But full AFK teams need bad players to farm and 1200+ doesn't cut it.