Curse

Del · Jun 20, 2010, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

That would apply to you, as you're once again posting to just annoy and troll. Inconstancy.

But I'm not posting just to annoy and troll, i initially posted because you talk out of your ass and i felt compelled to point out the stupidity and fallacy in your argument. But that's alright, accuse me of trolling even when I'm legitimately arguing. You don't have a real argument anyways.

Cuilan · Jun 20, 2010, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Balancing is retarded. Stuff doesn't need buffs. Give monks energy. Oh wait...

Feeding your ego at others expense with your derps and other insults you enjoy adding. You brought up a profession that had a lot of issues in an area when others were discussing a profession that's in demand, useful, and strong.

fireflyry · Jun 20, 2010, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath

On the same token though wouldn't the game be rather dull if it was balanced and skills were just never modified? I personally find it interesting and fun to ride the wave of constant skill nerfs and buffs...which obviously aren't as constant as they used to be.

I fully agree.

I accept and enjoy it as part of the game yet we are really the first generation of MMORPG players and critics.In saying I think this will become an accepted, possibly even marketed, part of the genre in general and players expectations will become more realistic as a result.

Atm there seem's to be a lot of MMO players who define balance after years of playing single-player games, or at least the arguments and philosophy regarding balance seem to be based on the same trend.

As you pretty much say, balance being a cyclic and consistent issue won't change.For many it's an incentive and motivation for discussion and game activity.

Probably part of the business blueprint tbh.

Shayne Hawke · Jun 20, 2010, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Tone down power levels on the Warrior, Necromancer, Mesmer, Monk, and Ritualist. In other words, balance the game for Normal Mode.

Fix PvE elite areas so that they're not such a LOL-MY-BIGGER-NUMBERS-WIN shitterfest.

Del · Jun 20, 2010, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Balancing is retarded. Stuff doesn't need buffs. Give monks energy. Oh wait...

Feeding your ego at others expense with your derps and other insults you enjoy adding. You brought up a profession that had a lot of issues in an area when others were discussing a profession that's in demand, useful, and strong.

But I wasn't arguing that monks need better energy management, I was arguing the hypocrisy in saying e management would make playing monk mindless, when you seemed to be extremely pro-mindlessness when it comes to mesmers being able to play mindlessly. In many situations, people take e/mo healers over monk healers because they don't have energy issues, they heal off of a split second heal with no recharge, so they can basically spam heals mindlessly, but I bet that's ok with you as well.

Cuilan · Jun 20, 2010, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

I was arguing the hypocrisy in saying e management would make playing monk mindless, when you seemed to be extremely pro-mindlessness when it comes to mesmers being able to play mindlessly.

The change in Mind Wrack never made it require less skill to use. You are more than likely assuming I use that skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

In many situations, people take e/mo healers over monk healers because they don't have energy issues, they heal off of a split second heal with no recharge, so they can basically spam heals mindlessly, but I bet that's ok with you as well.

My issues with Ether Renewal is with balance, not how much thought you have to put into it. However, considering there are so few players that can handle such a build to it's full potential, then maybe it just happens to be a spammy build that isn't fully mindless.

Fast recharging or strong skills are dumb. Flare is elitelololol.

Del · Jun 20, 2010, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

The change in Mind Wrack never made it require less skill to use. You are more than likely assuming I use that skill.

Mind wrack promotes spamming skills on a target for damage. It takes no skill whatsoever to use MW, then spam surge and burn on them, there is no skill whatsoever to playing these builds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

My issues with Ether Renewal is with balance, not how much thought you have to put into it. However, considering there are so few players that can handle such a build to it's full potential, then maybe it just happens to be a spammy build that isn't fully mindless.

Balance isn't about everyone having their own toy, balance is about maintaning a proper skill to effectiveness ratio. When it comes to healing, speed is pretty important, and Infuse is the fastest powerheal in the game, and eles can spam it with no drawback whatsoever. It takes little skill to play, and generally, when pugging for general pve, most people would take the er over an actual monk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Fast recharging or strong skills are dumb. Flare is elitelololol.

Way to say something without saying anything at all.

Cuilan · Jun 20, 2010, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

Mind wrack promotes spamming skills on a target for damage. It takes no skill whatsoever to use MW, then spam surge and burn on them, there is no skill whatsoever to playing these builds.

You had to spam skills for the old Mind Wrack. Mind Wrack was also used just for Cry of Pain. Guess now you can do more with it and that makes it...mindless?

Quote:

Balance isn't about everyone having their own toy, balance is about maintaning a proper skill to effectiveness ratio.

Balance is about having their own toy when you have more than one profession. Guild Wars is a game. If the skills that required a lot of skill to use were going to be buffed, there wouldn't be anything to buff.

Del · Jun 20, 2010, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

You had to spam skills for the old Mind Wrack. Mind Wrack was also used just for Cry of Pain. Guess now you can do more with it and that makes it...mindless?

Still just as mindless, but more rewarding of spamming than it previously was.

Xenomortis · Jun 20, 2010, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Balance is about having their own toy when you have more than one profession.

No, that's only part of it.

AlsPals · Jun 20, 2010, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

Tone down power levels on the Warrior, Necromancer, Mesmer, Monk, and Ritualist. In other words, balance the game for Normal Mode.

Fix PvE elite areas so that they're not such a LOL-MY-BIGGER-NUMBERS-WIN shitterfest.

I wish they would do that. In some places, only way to win is to play with shit as broken as the AI does.

slowerpoke · Jun 20, 2010, 08:50 PM // 20:50

I don't see the point of reinventing the wheel so late in the games life.

shoyon456 · Jun 20, 2010, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowerpoke

I don't see the point of reinventing the wheel so late in the games life.

Everyone should have figured the reason they're still trying to crank out meaningful skill balance updates is so that they can claim they actually try to balance their games while shoving their new spawn (GW2) down our throats.

It's nice and all that they're trying, but it'd take a lot more work to get me to bite that unappealing new hook.

On topic:

I always believed spear mastery was fairly well balanced, but simply unappealing for PvE. In PvE, Paragons are more useful for shouts, although I think that a lot of the support skills are very haphazard and unfocused. Unfortunately, when you're dealing with party-wide buffs that are for the most part unstrippable, balance will always be a problem.

Random Thought: Have the number of party members that some shouts affect scale with the attribute.

Ugh · Jun 20, 2010, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoyon456

Everyone should have figured the reason they're still trying to crank out meaningful skill balance updates is so that they can claim they actually try to balance their games while shoving their new spawn (GW2) down our throats.

It's nice and all that they're trying, but it'd take a lot more work to get me to bite that unappealing new hook.

WiK has made me more optimistic about GW2. Fighting guys with non-retarded builds and normal armor who run in balanced groups using things like prot and rezzes make PvE more fun, IMO.

It's not perfect, of course, but it's a good start.

Quote:

Random Thought: Have the number of party members that some shouts affect scale with the attribute.

Which people would get buffed if there are 8 allies but a shout only affects 4? Would it just affect the closest ones? It would be interesting if paras had to think more about positioning, like they would have to move up to defend their frontline, drop back to give their midline energy, etc. It would also be a nice way to rebuff paras in PvP without letting them get OP.

Edit: Proximity-basing would be terrible on heroes, though.

belshazaarswrath · Jun 21, 2010, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

Which people would get buffed if there are 8 allies but a shout only affects 4? Would it just affect the closest ones? It would be interesting if paras had to think more about positioning, like they would have to move up to defend their frontline, drop back to give their midline energy, etc. It would also be a nice way to rebuff paras in PvP without letting them get OP.

Edit: Proximity-basing would be terrible on heroes, though.

I think he means the shout has less of an effect with more people in the party. So if the para was alone he'd get the full effect but if he was in a group they'd get less of an effect...which is kind of counter intuitive but might work if done right.

Mintha Syl · Jun 21, 2010, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath

I think he means the shout has less of an effect with more people in the party. So if the para was alone he'd get the full effect but if he was in a group they'd get less of an effect...which is kind of counter intuitive but might work if done right.

Uhm that would really make people go solo more often I believe.
Instead what Ugh said would be a nice thing in my opinion, a bit more of strategy never hurts and makes the game funnier.

aspi · Jun 21, 2010, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Reading all this makes it pretty clear balancing is a very hard part of the game. I don't envy the test krewe or Anet.

Skyy High · Jun 21, 2010, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbientMelody

a) Reduce the level of PvE foes and reduce all/most of extraordinary armour buffs to monsters. To compensate, vastly increase number of PvE monsters per each monster group. In case of monsters with extraordinary armour (e.g. better armour against fire or slashing damage), it should always accompany a logical weakness (which could be seen by looking at the monster), such as extra-vulnerable to water or blunt damage.

b) Rework HardMode. Remove the ridiculous level boost, faster casting on spells above 2 second casting, bonus movement & attacking speed and the others. To compensate, further increase the number of monsters, as well as monster variety per group (higher profession variety per group, different species mixing with each other into groups). Introduce randomness in group creation per instance as well as slight skillbar variations per individual monsters (e.g. standard bar with 3-5 skills plus 1-3 additional random skills from a chosen pool). Improve the monster AI, but still make it possible to aggro & pin down mobs with a 'tanking' character, to allow elementalists and other characters to nuke them more freely.

That's ridiculous. The Peacekeeper/WM mobs are the most well put together mobs in GW, imo, and they are still easy to get through in NM. Decreasing the power of all mobs in both NM and HM and increasing the number of them will only make people focus even more on AoE damage to wipe them out, and it'll be even easier than it is now.

It is a simple fact of all videogames: to be hard, the computer needs to cheat, because you are smarter than the game. If all of PvE was like Kryta is right now, I would be extremely happy. (Incidentally, the content that I'm seeing in the WiK is making me very, very hopeful that these lessons will carry over to GW2.)

Xiaquin · Jun 21, 2010, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by aspi

Reading all this makes it pretty clear balancing is a very hard part of the game. I don't envy the test krewe or Anet.

Which is exactly why they are not using a dual-profession system and changing the skill bar to require some sort of structure for GW2. It will be impossible to balance the next game without some sanity.

belshazaarswrath · Jun 21, 2010, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mintha Syl

Uhm that would really make people go solo more often I believe.
Instead what Ugh said would be a nice thing in my opinion, a bit more of strategy never hurts and makes the game funnier.

I was just explaining what I believe the other poster was saying...