Curse

Motoko · Jun 05, 2010, 04:04 AM // 04:04

I just wanted to throw this out there for food for thought:

I have emailed support last week (friday) and it is now this week (friday) and I have yet to recieve a response beyond the lengthy explanation of the bans auto-response.

I did send a separate support message to check if the support ticket thread had been closed but I shortly recieved a message saying that support ticket was merged with my other ticket (indicating it had not been closed).

Thoughts? Really slow support? Still backlogged by whining botters?

I'm actually going to start testing out other accounts to see how they handle responding.

Elnino · Jun 05, 2010, 04:45 AM // 04:45

They probably merged both tickets so that they know not to respond to both, which is pretty bad on Anet's part. Support teams are supposed to want to help the people that go to them.

I remember a few years ago when I was suspended for spamming (it was at spamadan . . .) I had created a support ticket and after a week, I still got no response. I was wondering whether they were actually busy with other support matters or whether they just didn't want to respond to my ticket. So I sent another support ticket asking them a random gw question (asked them about some npc glitch) and I got a quick response.

So 2 tickets. 1 old, 1 new. Old one about my suspension, new one about the npc glitch. New one got quick response, old one didn't get a response until 1+ weeks later.

StormX · Jun 05, 2010, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmic correction

many has and many who has botted even got account back arealdy - I can name a few -

Proof please. If true, then this is a serious issue.

Also, I had a hard time getting through your wall-of-text postings. Succintness is your friend; repetition does not make your argument stronger.

Here, let me help you out:

1. Anet banned a lot of innocent people, so their detection methods cannot be foolproof.
2. I only used a harmless drunk-bot so I should be unbanned.
3. Anet is a dictatorship.
4. Anet is a dictatorship.
5. Anet is a dictatorship.

anything else i missed?

Brett Kuntz · Jun 05, 2010, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladiator Motoko

I'm just waiting for one of you dumbasses who are laughing at the other wrongly banned people to then get banned.

Seriously. Keep it up. Karma hits hard buddy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladiator Motoko

You are making the sad mistake of assuming every single person was correctly banned.

This is where your post went wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladiator Motoko

I just wanted to throw this out there for food for thought:

I have emailed support last week (friday) and it is now this week (friday) and I have yet to recieve a response beyond the lengthy explanation of the bans auto-response.

I did send a separate support message to check if the support ticket thread had been closed but I shortly recieved a message saying that support ticket was merged with my other ticket (indicating it had not been closed).

Thoughts? Really slow support? Still backlogged by whining botters?

I'm actually going to start testing out other accounts to see how they handle responding.

You weren't accidently banned, and neither were any of the other 3,699 accounts.

Lord Sojar · Jun 05, 2010, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladiator Motoko

I just wanted to throw this out there for food for thought:

I have emailed support last week (friday) and it is now this week (friday) and I have yet to recieve a response beyond the lengthy explanation of the bans auto-response.

I did send a separate support message to check if the support ticket thread had been closed but I shortly recieved a message saying that support ticket was merged with my other ticket (indicating it had not been closed).

Thoughts? Really slow support? Still backlogged by whining botters?

I'm actually going to start testing out other accounts to see how they handle responding.

Trying to get unbanned when you botted? You don't even fit into the "maybe innocent category" in any distinction. Why are you taking up supports time?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett Kuntz

You weren't accidently banned, and neither were any of the other 3,699 accounts.

While the reasons they might have banned people for might be a mistake in less than 1% of the cases, the way you were detected is flawless and carries no margin of error.

Quote:

many has and many who has botted even got account back arealdy - I can name a few -

Bullshit. Big heaping piles of it.

This hasn't happened, and anyone who believes this bologna is off their rocker. They aren't unbanning botters, period. ANET aren't fools, and you aren't fooling any educated person with the lies and deceit anymore.

You can email support. You will get the same responses, because you are all guilty of something. Whether ANET decides that the detected infraction was not a bot, that they will do after yet another review. Considering no one has posted success of this yet, I'm going to err to the side of "Liars!"

Lord Sojar · Jun 05, 2010, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Normally, I'd merge posts, but I've had enough of this. I'm going to take a purely logical stance on this, and not be personally involved anymore with the good vs bad argument.

Here are the facts:

If you used a program or modification that aggressively injected dlls (KSMod isn't aggressive, at all.), you were banned.
If you manipulated a match, you were banned.

Now, you contacted support. I'll let Gaile speak for me here with the points I'd like to stress bolded:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

As you can imagine, I can't offer to assist the owners of each of the 3,700+ accounts that were closed this week. Each ticket is reviewed by multiple people to check for accuracy and if there are any anomalies, that should be spotted early on. Having said that, certainly it's good to know if there are extraordinary details that may relate to the particular account in question. Please see my email for more information. Thanks

And to another point:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random Wiki User

IF you unknowingly had a tainted version of GW multi launcher, KSmod, or TexMod, can you get your account back, because I'm still trying to figure out why I got banned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

I'm sure you can see why that explanation, or that excuse, cannot be accepted as a prompt for reinstatement. I really disturbs me that people who did not intend to cheat have been caught in the net. And we know that may be the case. But honestly, I can't see a way to address such situations without opening the floodgates for a whole lot of cheaters to weasel their way back into the game.

Some of you claimed to have used PacketFakor as a replacement for TexMod. I pose this question... why? TexMod works perfectly, why use something with a name like Pa(c)ketFak(e)or?

Gaile shall respond, and then I will elaborate with an analogy:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Note: I am not drawing any conclusions about any particular program; I am just making a general observation. I noted that two people mentioned a program with which I'm unfamiliar [PaketFakor], and I speculated (and called it speculation) that it's possible such a program has bot elements. According to Lania, the speculation may be true. But again, my comments here do not reflect an official stance from ArenaNet about this program. I hope that clarifies my comments, and I apologize for any confusion.

Using PaketFakor as a replacement for TexMod is akin to using chemotherapy to lose weight, or shooting your dog in the legs when trying to train him to lie down.

PacketFakor is a very aggressive dll injection program, containing many hooks. It can easily be altered to do something malicious, in its original form. ANET cannot tell the difference between using it for malicious acts and for benign uses.

Now, here is an example of what the vast majority of people who contact support scream:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random Wiki User

So i was banned for using a 3rd party program or bot even though Ive never done anything of the sort. Bots are terrible and kill the ingame economy as well as make HA, RA, and GVG no fun to play. I was home sick from school today and decided that raptor farming would be a good way to pass the time. I farmed for a few hours. I was in the middle of a run and i got disconnected and then went to log back in and i was informed that I was banned. I have done nothing that I know of to get banned nonetheless perma banned. Ive played this game since factions came out and have been and avid pvper as well as pver. Any help would be great. ive submitted a ticket xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx thanks

Gee, that looks familiar...

Here, we have Gaile's response:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

You submitted a ticket on May 18th. You wrote me on May 18th. The issue was resolved, and the ban upheld, on May 20th. So what did we learn from this thread?

* Do not write Gaile until your ticket is at least three business days old.
* Don't bot.

Sorry, you used a bot. There really is absolutely no question of that. The account will remain closed

So... here you see the typical tickets they are reviewing. There were 3,700 accounts banned guys and gals... did you expect support to write you a mushy heartfelt letter, and to do that for the other 3,699 people/accounts too?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Now, if your personal situation causes you to look like a bot when you're not botting, then explain that to Support when you appeal the termination. There are a large number of parameters (more than 20) that are reviewed before an account is blocked. It is extremely unlikely that someone with just a faulty connection is going to get banned and if that's the only problem it's likewise extremely likely that his account will be released upon appeal.

Now here comes the most important part of this. This thread suggests ANET (as is usually suggested by people angry with the response they get from support, trust me, I've been there myself) is unable to do their job and is giving a canned "F*ck off response" to everyone who sends in a ticket regarding the May 26th bans. This isn't true, as I have stated SEVERAL times already.

ANET is owned by NCSoft, a multi billion dollar company. They are a publicly held company (that means people own stock in their company) They cannot go about banning potential customers at a whim without pissing off said stock holders, and businesses are in this to make money and keep stock holders happy campers. That said, this process was rigorous and very accurate. There is less than a 1% error margin allowed in the business world when it comes to major moves against consumers using automated technology. 99.1% to be exact, but most companies strive for 99.99%, be that uptime, customer satisfaction, and accuracy. Companies need to meet that metric to keep themselves financially sound, via the public holdings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

All cases are being reviewed. Every single one. Not every account holder is getting that response. Those who have a legitimate appeal are being handled individually and would get a different response. However, those people are very, very few in number. Consider that more than 3,700 accounts were closed. Many of those people will appeal, although they know full well they are guilty. Many others will appeal because they don't feel they were guilty, but they were. The appeals of people who were caught dead-to-rights fill up the queues and delay responses to people who have other issues or who may have a legitimate reason for an appeal. It is not reasonable to expect that support agents will sit down and pen a personal response to each person. The response that you've seen contains all the pertinent information in a clear, concise, and informative form. Trying to write a different letter to hundreds of people is an unnecessary waste of time and it risks possibly leaving out some information, as well, or opening the door to the sorts of strange fan forum speculations we're familiar with, like "Why did that say 'definitely' and that other one say 'positively'? I suspect a conspiracy of some sort!"

So, if someone gets that response, then that response is appropriate to the situation. It is not a brush off. It does not indicate that the team is not reading the tickets. It does not mean that a single appeal has been ignored, or that the circumstances that lead to the block were not carefully reviewed. The detailed and informative response is sent after a review, after verification of the block, and after the decision that the particular response is the best way to give each person the most accurate and complete representation of the situation. It is only sent to those to whom it applies; it is only sent when it is appropriate.

There you have it, from the horse's mouth. I don't know how much more clearly we can make this.

If you got a canned response, it's over. If you didn't, congratulations, you might actually be one of the tiny minority that really was a bookkeeping error, and you stand to have your account reinstated. My guess is, that small minority mainly consists of the match manipulators, not the botters.

As a note... 3rd party applications are risky, no matter what. The EULA makes no distinction, ergo, that means you could potentially be banned for any of them. This isn't a new rule, and shouldn't be treated like it just popped up yesterday. Instead of everyone losing their heads and screaming they don't deserve to be banned, or that botting is ok, or that this and this program should have been ok, why don't we try just not risking things? It's tough, I know, but you are 100% guaranteed not to get banned that way. Just don't do anything that violates the ToS/EULA. I'll quote Gaile, yet again, to close this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Bottom line: As always, the use of any third-party program is done on an "at your own risk" basis.

Auron of Neon · Jun 05, 2010, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Sojar

blah

If ANet can't tell the difference between one third party program and another, how can you be so confident they did their research?

That's putting a lot of faith into NCsoft support people, who have proven to be terrible and incompetent.

Lord Sojar · Jun 05, 2010, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auron of Neon

If ANet can't tell the difference between one third party program and another, how can you be so confident they did their research?

That's putting a lot of faith into NCsoft support people, who have proven to be terrible and incompetent.

They can tell the difference enough to know which programs were extremely malicious or had the capacity to be. KSMod users weren't banned... enough said.

And for this type of MASS banning, again, the rules change. A company is alienating a lot of users by doing this, and also eliminating a lot of potential Guild Wars 2 customers. The fact is, they didn't do this without extremely accurate litmus testing and QA... They have to answer to their stock holders about something on this scale. This was done with a fine tooth comb.

Elnino · Jun 05, 2010, 09:10 AM // 09:10

I'm pretty sure no one claimed that they used Paketfaker as a replacement of TexMod, rather, Paketfaker and TexMod. Both programs offer completely different things. TexMod doesn't offer Fame/Zaishen Emotes so I don't think your analogy works

It's more like, going to chemotherapy for cancer treatment then going to the gym to lose weight

Lord Sojar · Jun 05, 2010, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elnino

I'm pretty sure no one claimed that they used Paketfaker as a replacement of TexMod, rather, Paketfaker and TexMod. Both programs offer completely different things. TexMod doesn't offer Fame/Zaishen Emotes so I don't think your analogy works

It's more like, going to chemotherapy for cancer treatment then going to the gym to lose weight

Was replacing the emote textures and effects with TexMod a big thing to do?

Also, Paketfaker is extremely aggressive. Was the name not a clue? Packet. Faker.

It has more hooks in it than a commercial fishing boat. I mean, you could use it to do a lot of potential hacks, etc, and they wouldn't just be client side.

At some point, someone just needs to ask this question.... Does anyone use common sense anymore?

If the name suggest cheat, or the process suggests reverse engineering or intercepting and altering data, it MIGHT be a cheat. If it might be a cheat, it likely is.

3rd party programs were never sanctioned. But this isn't the point of this thread anywho, this about the support tickets. I gave the exact reason people are receiving the responses they are regarding this issue... Unless I missed something.... if so, feel free to point that out. Otherwise, post in the other threads about the general bans and reasons.

Kiki Go Boom · Jun 05, 2010, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Do you have any proof that it's agressive? How can you tell that something is bad without even knowing how it works? If its name is your only reason then you have a pretty bad argument.

Heck, when I first saw the word "KSMod" I thought it was a dangerous, agressive thing too and I considered it a cheat.

Oh and, no, you can't bot with the paketfaker. If you are going to make wild statements about something, at least provide some hard evidence to back you up.

Alesa · Jun 05, 2010, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Sojar

They can tell the difference enough to know which programs were extremely malicious or had the capacity to be. KSMod users weren't banned... enough said.

And for this type of MASS banning, again, the rules change. A company is alienating a lot of users by doing this, and also eliminating a lot of potential Guild Wars 2 customers. The fact is, they didn't do this without extremely accurate litmus testing and QA... They have to answer to their stock holders about something on this scale. This was done with a fine tooth comb.

You're guessing, nothing more. No one knows what they used to detect the botters. No one knows what they could detect and what they couldn't. No one knows what their 'investigative' methods were.

It's all just one huge guess on your part. Which makes your entire argument, and a lot of others in this thread, nothing more than speculation and pretty useless.

cosmic correction · Jun 06, 2010, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Clearly ANet has randomly picked out accounts here - If the support by accident should return a reply to you - You will see its says - Account banned for Either 3rd party or botting, which means they are not really sure which leg to stand on

and 2nd they can't give anyone an exact name or reason, from wich you can conclude they probably only fumble in the dark with some indicator which says " here might be a bot or 3rd party" but we cant say what it is ! - so they hope we players will be satisfied with that explanation and we will just bow and accept, - anet ban 3700 accounts without providing the exact evidence for each and every case/account they close ! - It's sad to see how little credibility they also put in the players, seeing Gaile bacically calling most of the Gw players liars doesnt really encurrage ppl to come out of the bush if thats the attitude you will meet in the support However, those people are very, very few in number. Consider that more than 3,700 accounts were closed.. How many has gotten the specific reason - No one!

Then again you can discuss what is harmful and which isn't - and when and with what u have violated rules, to get a perma.

I really do hope that those who got wrongly banned and who still hasnt got any reply and established any contructive communication with ANET - They are so confident in what they have done is the RIGHT, both moraly and gamewise, they trust blind on a progam which obviously has huge margin of failour, which is why so many of you has gotten banned without any reason. I hope many will be able to see the "System isnt working" they do as the please without any concern - if they perhaps has been a little hard on some. - I encurrage you who feel wrongly accued to speak up and tell your story to magazines, games sites, blogs, fb and where ever thier is a public forum for this interest.

Lord Sojar · Jun 06, 2010, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alesa

You're guessing, nothing more. No one knows what they used to detect the botters. No one knows what they could detect and what they couldn't. No one knows what their 'investigative' methods were.

It's all just one huge guess on your part. Which makes your entire argument, and a lot of others in this thread, nothing more than speculation and pretty useless.

Unlike most peoples' guesses, mine are based on technical knowledge of this situation. To compare... my guesses are like firing a gun with staring into the sun and having an eye patch over one eye. The other guesses in this thread are akin to firing the same gun with both your eyes ripped out and the gun is pointed the wrong way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmic correction

Clearly ANet has randomly picked out accounts here - If the support by accident should return a reply to you - You will see its says - Account banned for Either 3rd party or botting, which means they are not really sure which leg to stand on

and 2nd they can't give anyone an exact name or reason, from wich you can conclude they probably only fumble in the dark with some indicator which says " here might be a bot or 3rd party" but we cant say what it is ! - so they hope we players will be satisfied with that explanation and we will just bow and accept, - anet ban 3700 accounts without providing the exact evidence for each and every case/account they close ! - It's sad to see how little credibility they also put in the players, seeing Gaile bacically calling most of the Gw players liars doesnt really encurrage ppl to come out of the bush if thats the attitude you will meet in the support However, those people are very, very few in number. Consider that more than 3,700 accounts were closed.. How many has gotten the specific reason - No one!

My post directly refutes what you are arguing. There was nothing random about this. Quit ignoring direct evidence and posting whatever inane ideas you conjure up to try and hold up this illusion of innocence. People got a reason: You botted or used a restricted 3rd party app... Is this really so difficult to grasp? I think at this point, you are repeating yourself in an attempt to garner support from the masses of ill-informed people. After the length post I made providing direct quotes on this, you refute and argue still.

What needs to happen to convince you people that what has happened was perfectly righteous? Or, is it literally impossible to make you see that, and at this point you are simply posting misinformation and skewed views just to spite?

You said..."without providing the exact evidence for each and every case/account they close"

Yes, ANET should give you the exact reason so you can have a blueprint for how to cheat in the future, AMIRITE?

Does anyone think before posting this tripe? They clearly can tell what 3rd party apps you are using... KSMod users weren't banned, now were they? 2+2!=Chair, it == 4.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmic correction

they trust blind on a progam which obviously has huge margin of failour, which is why so many of you has gotten banned without any reason

The program doesn't have a margin of error. It's 100% accurate.

No one was banned without reason. They gave you a reason, you just aren't accepting it. That's a personal problem, not one with ANET.

majoho · Jun 06, 2010, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmic correction

Clearly ANet has randomly picked out accounts here - If the support by accident should return a reply to you - You will see its says - Account banned for Either 3rd party or botting, which means they are not really sure which leg to stand on

and 2nd they can't give anyone an exact name or reason, from wich you can conclude they probably only fumble in the dark with some indicator which says " here might be a bot or 3rd party" but we cant say what it is ! - so they hope we players will be satisfied with that explanation and we will just bow and accept, - anet ban 3700 accounts without providing the exact evidence for each and every case/account they close ! - It's sad to see how little credibility they also put in the players, seeing Gaile bacically calling most of the Gw players liars doesnt really encurrage ppl to come out of the bush if thats the attitude you will meet in the support However, those people are very, very few in number. Consider that more than 3,700 accounts were closed.. How many has gotten the specific reason - No one!

Then again you can discuss what is harmful and which isn't - and when and with what u have violated rules, to get a perma.

I really do hope that those who got wrongly banned and who still hasnt got any reply and established any contructive communication with ANET - They are so confident in what they have done is the RIGHT, both moraly and gamewise, they trust blind on a progam which obviously has huge margin of failour, which is why so many of you has gotten banned without any reason. I hope many will be able to see the "System isnt working" they do as the please without any concern - if they perhaps has been a little hard on some. - I encurrage you who feel wrongly accued to speak up and tell your story to magazines, games sites, blogs, fb and where ever thier is a public forum for this interest.

I have yet to see anyone claiming to be 100% innocent in that last banning spree.

Also a bot IS a 3'rd party program or an auto-clicker, there is nothing illogical about what they say.

cosmic correction · Jun 06, 2010, 05:32 PM // 17:32

If people got a reason - then explain to me why it can happend that - the 29th 3 days after, i hear about the first one who got the account back !! and that exact person has been Botting and i mean farming all that could be done with a bot he did - so if a person who really is into botting - can get account back 3 days after -at the same time you ban ppl for "innocent 3rd party" which doesnt do anyting compared to farming bots !! where is the SENSE ?? to let the very worst lose again while you uphold ban on ppl who has use a darn drunk bot which doesnt do anyitng to anyone or to the economy - it was the FARMING bots you were after - not all the "innocent ones" - I got a page long conversation saved from MSN - where it says you let a botter lose after 3 days - is that - FAIL !! - I would call it that !!

Lord Sojar · Jun 06, 2010, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmic correction

If people got a reason - then explain to me why it can happend that - the 29th 3 days after, i hear about the first one who got the account back !! and that exact person has been Botting and i mean farming all that could be done with a bot he did - so if a person how really is into botting - can get account back 3 days after -at the same time you ban ppl for "innocent 3rd party" which doesnt do anyting compared to farming bots !! where is the SENSE ?? to let the very worst lose again while you uphold ban on ppl who has use a darn drunk bot which doesnt do anyitng to anyone or to the economy - it was the FARMING bots you were after - not all the "innocent ones" - I got a page long conversation saved from MSN - where it says you let a botter lose after 3 days - is that - FAIL !! - I would call it that !!

I don't believe it. They aren't letting people out of the bans for any reason at this point unless it was a legit bookkeeping error. If they found you guilty of using a restricted 3rd party app, your ban will not be lifted.

Whoever this person is you are talking to, they are lying to you. MSN conversation logs do not prove anything. I guarantee they were either not banned in the first place, or they were never actually unbanned.

cosmic correction · Jun 06, 2010, 05:46 PM // 17:46

well I am just saying i got a page long conversation saved where half of it is about a person which got account , back after 3 days - who has been botting for years in GW - if you believe it is up to u , you tend to believe very litlte in whats being said to ya anyways

, perhaps same tendency is reflected when we have to believe you ANET

- i only bing light over that even a hardcore botter which intentions was only moneywise and all that which you have tired to deal with , is still going on and that your ways to check this isnt 100% sure -

Meridon · Jun 06, 2010, 07:01 PM // 19:01

I'd just like to chip in with a few words, semi-directed to Lord Sojar but also to everyone else:

Getting banned for 'Botting' may be more obvious to some than it has been to others. ArenaNET has had a history of being vague in EULA-related cases like these, such as the character naming debacle. While some applications are easy to identify as bots and therefore illegal under the EULA, without completely clear guidelines there is, and always will be a very big gray area. This, in turn, results in people finding themselves in this grey area and submitting tickets and appeals for clarification. The time Support spends on these tickets could have been completely avoided if ArenaNET had made proper, clear and easy to access rules and restrictions on what is allowed and what is not.

Now, Gaile argues automated responses are justified as a result of 3700 accounts being banned. However, why invoke a mass-ban if you don't have enough resources at Support to give everyone a proper response? Again, not only is this a result of the fact that they let this grey area exist, it's also a direct result of the way they dealt with banning everyone at the same time, as Support now has to deal with a buttload of extra tickets they can't properly process all at once. If the banning had occurred much more gradually, and if ArenaNET would be clear in what is legal and what is not, there wouldn't be a problem.

What Anet needs to do is make a specific, clear and easy to access list of which applications under which circumstances and ways they can be used are illegal and which are not. This list needs to be updated frequently, and players need to be notified in advance before the list gets updated with new applications, so they have the time and oppurtunity to stay legal under the latest regulations. If they won't, banning accounts for breaking the various vague sections of the EULA will always remain seemingly arbitraty.

P.S. As you may have guessed, I find myself in the grey area as of now. I am not banned, and I have never used .dll injection software in conjunction with Guild Wars, and yet, I don't feel safe for an unexpected ban, even though I am corresponding with Support at this moment for more clarification and peace of mind on my case.

Ka Tet · Jun 06, 2010, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Sojar

I don't believe it. They aren't letting people out of the bans for any reason at this point unless it was a legit bookkeeping error. If they found you guilty of using a restricted 3rd party app, your ban will not be lifted.

Whoever this person is you are talking to, they are lying to you. MSN conversation logs do not prove anything. I guarantee they were either not banned in the first place, or they were never actually unbanned.

Believing and knowing are very different things. Your assertions are for the most part completely reliant upon trusting you and believing whatever you say.