Curse

IlikeGW · Jul 06, 2010, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Thread is irrelevant because casters are rarely countered, physicals are countered constantly.

Ninja Ninja · Jul 06, 2010, 06:24 PM // 18:24

In today's mmorpg magic classes are always over-powered shunning any form of melee characters so I couldn't care less if eles got screwed on damage in gw.
BTW
hammer blow to the head>fire

Ninja Ninja · Jul 06, 2010, 06:32 PM // 18:32

This topic is better suited for Sardelac Sanitarium.

ApolloIV · Jul 06, 2010, 06:52 PM // 18:52

@ Gill Halendt and belshazaarswrath.

Just so you know, Guild Wars is fiction. Your arguments are moot.

Del · Jul 06, 2010, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

This topic is better suited for Sardelac Sanitarium.

It was in sardelac, got moved here.

Shayne Hawke · Jul 06, 2010, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

This topic is better suited for Sardelac Sanitarium.

"Caster damage should be buffed to be powerful like melee damage" is too vague of a suggestion to stay there. There are hundreds of ways that can be carried out. Unless specifics are stated, it's only a discussion point, and not a real suggestion.

Xiaquin · Jul 06, 2010, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by IlikeGW

Thread is irrelevant because casters are rarely countered, physicals are countered constantly.

This.

Blind. Blocking. Hexes that cause "miss" or slow attack speed, snare..yeah, melee is way overpowered and needs balance.

maxxfury · Jul 06, 2010, 11:06 PM // 23:06

In most mmo's, casters do the high easily counterable (or fragile) damage, and the physicals do the reliable average damage and tanking. Gw tipped this on its head, and gave phys the easily counterable (or fragile) high damage and the casters the support and reliable mid range damage....

To reverse that it would need a massive overhaul of the whole game..plus making team synergy mean more than tank then your mates nuke is sexy! buffing, cleaning, marking, protting, positioning, ect ect is all way better game play .... intra team synergies are fun!

I for one prefer this approach

less tanky spanky! more steamroll! its not perfect but its better...(imo ofc)

belshazaarswrath · Jul 07, 2010, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApolloIV

@ Gill Halendt and belshazaarswrath.

Just so you know, Guild Wars is fiction. Your arguments are moot.

So what if it's fiction? It's not so fictitious that it has no relation to the real world whatsoever.

If all the fire elemental attacks looked like water and the air attacks looked like little pink bunnies you'd probably be like "Wow that really makes no sense, they should fix this."

But this is off topic so I'd like to keep it at that if possible...

cellardweller · Jul 07, 2010, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Yeah because Physicals are "Tab + Space , 1 2 3 4 <foe down> <rest of skills if needed >" and repeat ..... oh wait

.

That sounds more like an AP spammer than a caster. Caster complexity comes from managing things like wastrels worry and shatter delusions.

NerfHerder · Jul 07, 2010, 02:07 AM // 02:07

@OP
Your success with your Me/D build is due to your caster heros, PI your caster skill and AoHM. Sins have Critical hits, Wars have Armor Penetrating, and Dervs have an attack spammer build that would put your Me/D to shame. Not to mention they have the armor for tanking. AoHM should obviously be tied to mysticism. That would help the Derv use his primary weapon as good as a Warrior but not as well as an Assassin. But thats another thread. So you basically pointed out that physicals are stronger when your casters are dedicated to supporting you. I think you defeated your own arguement.

If your playing a Mesmer, why not take any of the Keystone, Domination, Illusion, AP, or Panic builds? They do outstanding AoE armor ignoring damage. Not to mention damage mitigation and degen hexes.

Things are pretty balanced right now in general. Its the specific professions that could use the help. Dervs, Rangers, Paras, and Eles could use some well thought out buffs. And Rts could use some clever tweaking.

I play all 10 professions and I take them through the WiK content HM, just as an example. Even with all the melee buffs, I run across alot of melee counters. My casters are easier to take though because they arent shut down as easily. So from my observations, melee vs caster power is fairly balanced. Even if melee does a little more damage to a single target, the casters have more AoE that balances it out.

chilly willy · Jul 07, 2010, 04:16 AM // 04:16

as a primary warrior with almost everything pve done or damn near done(just need some elite areas, see seking services...) the counters to melee are the following...
empathy, spiteful spirit, insidious parasite, blind,blocks, misses, weakness, slowed attack speeds, stance removal, damage mitigation buffs like shouts and enchantments, you can't do much while carrying bundle items, cracked armor, melee for the most part lacks armor ignoring damage so hm can be a bitch for a warrior that isn't in a gimmick team, lack of aoe besides scythe usage and stuff. now this is all i can care to think of off the top of my head now casters on the other hand have the following against them...
dazed, interupts, 60AL armor, and easily interuptable skills. that is about it. ive been playing a monk in pve recently because i hate using the zaishen dude to get to jq and fa and the like and i have noticed i have way more to offer to the team as a caster i have nearly unlimted energy(still is the case with warrior's endurance though) but as a monk i can offer 50% damage reduction to 3 other party members and be able to spam roj and smiting signets so i can do way more damage even as a monk than i could do as a warrior.

Lanier · Jul 07, 2010, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilly willy

as a primary warrior with almost everything pve done or damn near done(just need some elite areas, see seking services...) the counters to melee are the following...
empathy, spiteful spirit, insidious parasite, blind,blocks, misses, weakness, slowed attack speeds, stance removal, damage mitigation buffs like shouts and enchantments, you can't do much while carrying bundle items, cracked armor, melee for the most part lacks armor ignoring damage so hm can be a bitch for a warrior that isn't in a gimmick team, lack of aoe besides scythe usage and stuff. now this is all i can care to think of off the top of my head now casters on the other hand have the following against them...
dazed, interupts, 60AL armor, and easily interuptable skills. that is about it. ive been playing a monk in pve recently because i hate using the zaishen dude to get to jq and fa and the like and i have noticed i have way more to offer to the team as a caster i have nearly unlimted energy(still is the case with warrior's endurance though) but as a monk i can offer 50% damage reduction to 3 other party members and be able to spam roj and smiting signets so i can do way more damage even as a monk than i could do as a warrior.

My paragon was my main for the first two years after getting the game, and I still shudder when I see an enemy with faintheartedness. Its like the designers purposely put it on every other necromancer in the nightfall campaign, and it was annoying as hell to deal with.

belshazaarswrath · Jul 07, 2010, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

My paragon was my main for the first two years after getting the game, and I still shudder when I see an enemy with faintheartedness. Its like the designers purposely put it on every other necromancer in the nightfall campaign, and it was annoying as hell to deal with.

Soothing images says RAEP. The first hex my paragon ever got hit with was that...and it was there that I realized that they might not be the class for me.

Gill Halendt · Jul 07, 2010, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApolloIV

@ Gill Halendt and belshazaarswrath.

Just so you know, Guild Wars is fiction. Your arguments are moot.

Calm down...

I was just replying to some guy stating that a sword dealing that much damage makes no sense even in the real world. It actually does, just that...

FoxBat · Jul 07, 2010, 06:34 AM // 06:34

The unstated assumption here:

As a physical I can easily get my heroes to bitch SoH/splinter/curses/whatever for me, while abusing SY/AoHM/CA/etc.

As a caster I'm SOL trying to make Koss or Zenmai do anything useful.

So basically, it's an imbalance with single player, aka 95% of guild wars.

chilly willy · Jul 07, 2010, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

The unstated assumption here:

As a physical I can easily get my heroes to bitch SoH/splinter/curses/whatever for me, while abusing SY/AoHM/CA/etc.

As a caster I'm SOL trying to make Koss or Zenmai do anything useful.

So basically, it's an imbalance with single player, aka 95% of guild wars.

something i have found is that as a caster you do not need a frontliner if u do it right. casters can tank if needed but it has to be done differently. and if u want zenmai to do something useful ditch the daggers and get a shield and a spear or a bow or even casting weapons to make use of certain signets and hexes.ai sins suck balls since they use the chains like a retarded person and they use the shadowsteps purely as heals or kiting skills. im kind of kicking myself for not picking a caster or even a ranger when i first started playign the game (prophecies) i hate making multiple characters besides for pvp. if i would have known casters were so versatile i would have picked one. although i have found that a warrior is mediocre at nearly everything so it is easier i found to roll a warrior compared to a caster when first starting out especially in prophecies because of the lack of skills compared to the newer campaigns.

overall physicals need caster support but casters do not need physicals to be useful. casters have minions and/or spirits at their disposal and can remove hexes and conditions and heal themselves and other physicals can provide pressure but thats it outside of gimmick SC teams. pressure is nice because it pisses of the healers. the one thing that can kill a healer is to give it more things to do. and thats where physicals mainly melee excel is pissing off the casters. the casters on the other hand just just spike and steamroll over mobs with minimal overall support.

The Drunkard · Jul 07, 2010, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

@OP
Your success with your Me/D build is due to your caster heros, PI your caster skill and AoHM. Sins have Critical hits, Wars have Armor Penetrating, and Dervs have an attack spammer build that would put your Me/D to shame.

If you actually read his/her thread, you would realize that you can do oodles of damage as any prof./d, all you need is a few pve skills and scythe attacks. The damage is also similar or the exact same (with a blue/red rock candy) compated to the output wars or dervs with scythes can produce, with sins on top due to critical hits. Survivalbility is easily managed with a proper hero setup, though sins and wars have an advantage over the mesmer. How about testing a build before bashing it, mkay?

The issue isn't melee damage, it's all of the cons and pve skills that anet can't seem to want to balance with a few rediculous combinations of different profs. If Anet was really serious about keeping their game difficult, they would've nerfed broken skill combinations such as HB+mark of pain or SF+sliver armor/radiation field. But the state that pve and the market is in will never be fixed, even with a large update. The solution that I think that the TC is taking is how to break dervishes so they can be on par with other proffessions; they might do it with eles as well if there's enough voice within the community.

Tenebrae · Jul 07, 2010, 12:11 PM // 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

That sounds more like an AP spammer than a caster. Caster complexity comes from managing things like wastrels worry and shatter delusions.

Dude .... that is managing your own bar and skills , every char in this game does that. I was ironic because theres no way in hell that a caster is harder to use than a melee. Melees have to deal with a load of bullcrap so its balanced that theres also a lot of skills ( most of them spells ) that boost their DPS etc.

MMSDome · Jul 07, 2010, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

Everyone who tried both knows that physicals can deal insane amount of damage compared to others, with insane protection (SY..).

This game always had very imbalanced builds/skills which existed on purpose because of ANets policy of "shifting overpowered metagame".

I think it's time for a change. Obviously, since next updates will deal with Paragons and Dervishes there's not much hope, but you never know.

I've been playing lately with Me/D (!) because even as melee mesmer I kill faster than as caster mesmer, even after the mesmer buff update. I mean, come on, something is wrong here. My (buffed) melee mesmer can kill monsters in HM in two hits. Two hits. Let me do that with a spell!

Thread tl;dr so this is directed at OP.

Do you know from personal experience that magic is superior to physical damage? Is that the way it is in real life? If so then I am all for a fix but until you ave solid evidence that casters should be stronger than physicals shut the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO up.