Curse

Xiaquin · Jul 31, 2010, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

I guess the question I would pose to the community is thus: what should the Ranger's abilities be that they currently are not?

(All suggestions are PvE-only)

Traps: Speed up, allow one of each trap type at a time.

NRs: Speed. After that, case-by-case basis.

General: Add damage to more skills (Poison Arrow, Incendiary Arrows) and reduce recharge on some attacks (Hunter's Shot, Melandru's Shot). Fix niche skills with little practical use (example: Body Shot works into a way to inflict cracked armor, instead of depend on it).

I would have to go through every skill, honestly, so this is just a starting point. Overall, I just want the ranger to be faster and do what it already does, just better in every way.

Cuilan · Jul 31, 2010, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Considering how traps are returning to The Underworld, ranger spirits are the more likely thing to be changed. Even with short casting times, they aren't worth it. Not like anyone is going to set up spirits in the middle of a mob or fight. That's just be dumb.

jazilla · Jul 31, 2010, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Considering how traps are returning to The Underworld, ranger spirits are the more likely thing to be changed. Even with short casting times, they aren't worth it. Not like anyone is going to set up spirits in the middle of a mob or fight. That's just be dumb.

That kind of thinking was how a ton of people felt with Rit Spirits and look what happened when their casting times got shortened. Shortening the casting times of those and Nature Rituals opens up some different builds for the Ranger in today's game. People would actually tailor more builds to suit NR and trapping style play for regular team builds. There would have to be some balancing after the decrease in casting time I am sure, but I for one would love to see a wider array of play style be available to my Ranger.

*Darcy* · Jul 31, 2010, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

Ah, you younguns don't remember the glory days?

Back when spirits used to effect the entire map and cause DP?

Back when a Winter ranger was needed in the Fire Isles?

I remember this. When my main warrior did the Fire Islands missions using Winter. Before you could get +10 armor vs fire on your shield, or have heroes along and there were no buffs to raise your intrinsic level. Ahh, the good old days of re-doing missions over and over until you got lucky enough to get it right.

But since then my warrior almost never uses /ranger for anything as the nature rituals have become fairly useless.

Tenebrae · Jul 31, 2010, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazilla

That kind of thinking was how a ton of people felt with Rit Spirits and look what happened when their casting times got shortened. Shortening the casting times of those and Nature Rituals opens up some different builds for the Ranger in today's game. People would actually tailor more builds to suit NR and trapping style play for regular team builds. There would have to be some balancing after the decrease in casting time I am sure, but I for one would love to see a wider array of play style be available to my Ranger.

Yes but Rit spirits attack or do something useful , nature rituals dont.
Shortening casting times AND recharges would help to maybe carry 1-2 spirits max but mostly wont help.
They need to do something useful like for example "foes within range with a condition recieve +3....15 earth damage every time they are hit with elemental damage" , this spirit dies after 15 sec ( with 30 recharge or 25 ).
Not with that numbers but you know , USEFUL stuff , unlike stuff they have now.

For the traps part yes , non easy interruptable , wider AoE and make them non stackable in the same place for example while they are not active. That would make the ranger sort of a defensive+ofensive melee/ranged attacker.

Cuilan · Jul 31, 2010, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazilla

Shortening the casting times of those and Nature Rituals opens up some different builds for the Ranger in today's game.

What builds are there could can't be done because of their casting time?

jazilla · Jul 31, 2010, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Yes but Rit spirits attack or do something useful , nature rituals dont.
Shortening casting times AND recharges would help to maybe carry 1-2 spirits max but mostly wont help.
They need to do something useful like for example "foes within range with a condition recieve +3....15 earth damage every time they are hit with elemental damage" , this spirit dies after 15 sec ( with 30 recharge or 25 ).
Not with that numbers but you know , USEFUL stuff , unlike stuff they have now.

For the traps part yes , non easy interruptable , wider AoE and make them non stackable in the same place for example while they are not active. That would make the ranger sort of a defensive+ofensive melee/ranged attacker.

they would still need their casting times reduced to see significant play even with the changes you are suggesting. I am suggesting cast reduction so that Rangers have more options as well as team options opening up for Rangers. I like your idea, but it is a moot point unless their cast times are reduced.

jazilla · Jul 31, 2010, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

What builds are there could can't be done because of their casting time?

They don't see widespread use because of the cast times. I for one would make team builds around them if they didn't take so long to put down. Rit Spirits weren't bad before their casting times got reduced. Teams just didn't want to wait for them to get all of their spirits ready. The game for better or worse is a WAY faster pace now then it used to be. We can all say, "Roll us back to an earlier time, slow the game down etc..." but that isn't the direction the game is going in and the Ranger still hasn't caught up in the AREA of Spirits and Traps.

Fay Vert · Jul 31, 2010, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

Traps: Speed up, allow one of each trap type at a time.

I assume your intent here is to make traps totally and utterly useless in the game. If so, yup, that would do it.

Ka Tet · Jul 31, 2010, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Summon Traps... all your traps are summoned to your current location. Game. Set. Match.

Amy Awien · Jul 31, 2010, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Lol, that one could be fun.

Xiaquin · Aug 01, 2010, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

I assume your intent here is to make traps totally and utterly useless in the game.

They aren't really used now. Provide examples of how making them work faster, in accordance with the speed of today's PvE, would make it even more useless. If you're mad that it spoils UW trapping, nuts. Stacking traps shouldn't be the only usefulness, they should actually be practical for general use.

Fay Vert · Aug 01, 2010, 02:43 AM // 02:43

No, only allowing one trap of each type at a time would make them useless, traps do very little damage individually.

Xiaquin · Aug 01, 2010, 03:35 AM // 03:35

They're not meant to kill something, that's why they inflict lots of conditions. It's a wilderness trap, not a bomb (however the dwarf skill is). If all you want is damage, you wouldn't be using traps anyway, so they shouldn't concern you.

Nevertheless, I would not oppose a modest damage increase, it just didn't factor into the problems I saw with the skill type.

Lanier · Aug 01, 2010, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Why not make them only useable once at a time and give them a damage increase? Idk how much that would really help, but traps should be useful for general use, not for farming. I almost think it might be better to give them OP (not too powerful but more powerful than many other stuff in the game) effects and then see how that would effect their usage in PvE. If people would then actually slow down to lay the traps and pull enemies into them (which i guess is what traps are supposed to be for...), then the effects could be nerfed until a happy medium is reached. Idk... just an idea.

Fay Vert · Aug 01, 2010, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Traps were always a slow and inefficient way to farm so there was never a problem with them killing things, plus there were few places suitable for traps, most of which had better farms with other professions. Trapping outside those few places required a degree of skill that made it not suitable for most (god forbid that anything in the game would allow you to profit from skill!).

Traps in PVE are currently dead and pointless, so if you want them back, lets make them better before we make them worse yes?

Like bows, pets and nature rituals, traps were another ranger style that was good in the days of prophesies but has become hopelessly bad in the current game because of power creep. So either unwind all the power creep (no, didn't think that would happen) or bring traps and nature rituals up to the current game power.

Cuilan · Aug 01, 2010, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazilla

They don't see widespread use because of the cast times. I for one would make team builds around them if they didn't take so long to put down. Rit Spirits weren't bad before their casting times got reduced. Teams just didn't want to wait for them to get all of their spirits ready.

With reduced cast times, they won't be worth bringing anyway. It's not their casting time, it's how worthless they are. You talk about increased speed of the game, but then you want to make spirit and team spirit builds...

Xiaquin · Aug 01, 2010, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

With reduced cast times, they won't be worth bringing anyway. It's not their casting time, it's how worthless they are.

"Worthless" and related words are subjective. Traps are designed to inflict lots of conditions in AoE and can allow you to start off a fight with an advantage. With a little strategy, such as Archer's Signet, they could be used to great effect if only they could be deployed fast and consistently.

I know the power creep has made the game into a big damage number contest, but that's not the point of traps, and it shouldn't be. I'd rather they stay dead than see that happen. IMO, damage should come from the bow, Wilderness Survival emphasizes utility.

Lanier · Aug 01, 2010, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

"Worthless" and related words are subjective. Traps are designed to inflict lots of conditions in AoE and can allow you to start off a fight with an advantage. With a little strategy, such as Archer's Signet, they could be used to great effect if only they could be deployed fast and consistently.

I know the power creep has made the game into a big damage number contest, but that's not the point of traps, and it shouldn't be. I'd rather they stay dead than see that happen. IMO, damage should come from the bow, Wilderness Survival emphasizes utility.

He was refering to spirits, not traps.

jazilla · Aug 01, 2010, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

"Worthless" and related words are subjective. Traps are designed to inflict lots of conditions in AoE and can allow you to start off a fight with an advantage. With a little strategy, such as Archer's Signet, they could be used to great effect if only they could be deployed fast and consistently.

I know the power creep has made the game into a big damage number contest, but that's not the point of traps, and it shouldn't be. I'd rather they stay dead than see that happen. IMO, damage should come from the bow, Wilderness Survival emphasizes utility.

Besides the fact that the dude you are replying to was talking about spirits, I am talking about traps becoming relevant again in terms of ease of use and casting times that are in-line with today's game. I am not talking about using this stuff for gimmick trapper teams. I am talking about giving Rangers more options with their bars. IDK how many more times I have to say that. you seem to be having conversations with people that aren't here or not reading what people are actually talking about.