Curse

felinette · Apr 17, 2006, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackie

But give Anet a break. They are working hard for kicking scammers & exploiters arses. Everyone makes mistakes sooner or later.

Which is why, when asked, they should offer evidence to support a ban.

Argen · Apr 17, 2006, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riceboi

There is a possibility that the out of country online farmer shops are breaking human right laws, but we don't know that. Obviously USA laws are different from other countries. Also the argument that they are paid so little and have to work long hours is not breaking the laws in their country (in USA of course it is). The economy is different over there.

I do agree with you that if gaming companies tried hard enough, they could probably sue ebay over these auctions. I also agree it's only a matter of time before there will be real laws over virtual property. Once those laws are passed then ebay will close all the online gaming auctions in a blink of an eye.

Well, until that point, eBay really only needs to fear Microsoft and Sony. Additionally once virtual property laws are passed, it will most likely put the video game companies into a pickle... Imagine:

Man "violates" EULA, ANet bans his account. Man is found out to not be in violation of the EULA. Mans sues ANet for virtual theft?

There are some cases of this actually hitting court in Japan and Korea currently... can't wait to see what the precedent will be for these.

To the OP, congrats on getting your account back.

yesitsrob · Apr 17, 2006, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Congratulations to the OP, such stories of people getting bad for no reason are worrying. Such mistakes sure can't be all that easy to make, and their so called research into the situation cannot have been that thorough. It is sad how people can get banned for little to nothing when chinese farming bots still pollute Droknar's Forge. Again, congratulations... and I also believe Anet should back up their reasoning for bans with evidence, if they did so then maybe they wouldn't ban so many people by mistake, though it can also be argued that they'll give hints away on how to avoid the ban stick.

I'd have to agree it's pretty disappointing that they can make a mistake like this, and clearly, it's not the first time either

Thomas Valheru · Apr 17, 2006, 03:16 PM // 15:16

This is rediculous, I've spent 3 days trying to find out why I was banned, only to find out that I apparenetly "Your account was permanently closed because you engaged in the sale of in-game items for cash or other items with real world value, or you engaged in gathering items to be sold for cash or other items with real world value." something that havn't done.
I'd be really interested in finding out how the courts in Japan and Korea will handle this since I want my account back. And this so called "deep analysis" can't be that deep since 3 people have already come out saying that they've been unjustly banned, I can't believe the incompetence that's led to my banning.

Ctb · Apr 17, 2006, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

I choose the wrong side to believe and I am happy about I was wrong.

This quote kind of interests me. While I can see where you'd say "well, ANet has all the resources and time invested in this investigation, so they're probably right", I have to take umbrance. While they may or may not be right in individual cases like this, and we can never know for sure, the fact is that when they ban someone, it really takes some tooth pulling just to find out WHY the ban occurred, much less get it reversed.

It's nice that they review the unreviewable if prodded enough. It's of concern that you have to practically drive there and log into the system yourself just to find out specifically why you were suddenly out $50. I mean, honestly, how much longer could it possibly take to dig out one simple exlpanation every now and then versus sending 50 form emails back.

Frankly, if I were the OP, I'd respond telling them to shove it and informing them that they clearly chose to not have a business relationship, so they lost a customer and earned plenty of bad PR (assuming you have any gamer friends of course).

I've sworn off other companies for similar treatment. I swore off Best Buy three years ago when they constantly responded to my complaints about their obvious error with a $150 rebate. I got the rebate by initiating a small claims suit, loudly proclaimed to the store manager that it was my first and final purchase from any Best Buy, and promptly proceeded to buy several thousands of dollars of electronics and media since then - not one penny of it from Best Buy even if they had a better deal.

I wish more people would do the same rather than rolling over like chumps. Frankly, the OP got treated like dirt, and he's basically rolling over and taking it rather than making a point about the utter lack of basic customer service.

Dalia · Apr 17, 2006, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Riceboi: There is a possibility that the out of country online farmer shops are breaking human right laws, but we don't know that. Obviously USA laws are different from other countries. Also the argument that they are paid so little and have to work long hours is not breaking the laws in their country (in USA of course it is). The economy is different over there.

The working class in China has NO RIGHTS. Workers often slave for 13 hours, 7 days a week. Many live packed into slum-like, company-run dormitories. Young people are hired (more energy), worked for 4-5 years, then cast aside. These young people often do so without complaining to support impoverished families in the provinces (700 million of whom still live in poverty). No healthcare is provided for the poor in China, neither is education free.

Catch PBS's Frontline "The Tank Man" for an informative look at human rights in today's China.

Dalia

Loviatar · Apr 17, 2006, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

Frankly, if I were the OP, I'd respond telling them to shove it and informing them that they clearly chose to not have a business relationship, so they lost a customer and earned plenty of bad PR (assuming you have any gamer friends of course).

.

right.

you would leave the game even if you enjoyed it to prove a point?

he gets back his account and you tell him to throw it away.

nice to toss other peoples money isnt it?

Riceboi · Apr 17, 2006, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalia

Riceboi: There is a possibility that the out of country online farmer shops are breaking human right laws, but we don't know that. Obviously USA laws are different from other countries. Also the argument that they are paid so little and have to work long hours is not breaking the laws in their country (in USA of course it is). The economy is different over there.

The working class in China has NO RIGHTS. Workers often slave for 13 hours, 7 days a week. Many live packed into slum-like, company-run dormitories. Young people are hired (more energy), worked for 4-5 years, then cast aside. These young people often do so without complaining to support impoverished families in the provinces (700 million of whom still live in poverty). No healthcare is provided for the poor in China, neither is education free.

Catch PBS's Frontline "The Tank Man" for an informative look at human rights in today's China.

Dalia

That's what I was trying to say with my post.

Ctb · Apr 17, 2006, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

you would leave the game even if you enjoyed it to prove a point?

Well, it's not really a matter of proving a point. If you decide to stop using a product or service out of disgust, you should always tell the company why ("make the point") because:

1. It may well have been an honest mistake and they may be willing to make amends to keep you around.
2. If nothing else, if enough people complain and ditch them, they'll change their behavior (or go down in flames if they're that arrogant).

My take on things like this is that customer service is part of the deal. If it's bad enough, then no matter how good the rest of the deal is, it's not worth it.

For example, if I'm looking at a product at 2 stores, and one is selling it for $35, the other for $45 with a $15 mail in rebate, I'll buy the $35 item because, frankly, the extra $5 is simply not worth any potential hassle with the rebate.

I'll gladly pay more for a product with better service, or quit using a non-essential product if the service is bad and there are no viable alternatives.

That and, of course, I'm a spiteful little bastard and I hate taking crap from companies that have cut-rate piss-poor service so they can undercut the competitor by five cents X__X

I've sworn off buying from a couple of companies now because they've been nothing but trouble and been resistant to clearing up the most obvious of errors. I shut off my cable service for two years because an Adelphia rep told me that it was my fault they weren't taking out the automatic payments I signed up for because I didn't check my statements every month for their debit explicitly (ultimately, my fiancee moved in and practically begged to have it restarted).

Spiteful am I, yes.

TalonTheCat · Apr 17, 2006, 05:09 PM // 17:09

This is my first time seeing this thread.

First, congrats on getting your account back!

Secondly: It scares me. I like to farm - I like the anticipation of identifying the items - is it good? Can I use it? If not, I usually give it to a guildy or merch it. I also give gold to guildies, and sometimes to others who have gone out their way to help me, or been particulary nice to chat with and they need money. Am I next to be banned because I have one sided trades?

Note to self: must stop being so nice.

leprekan · Apr 17, 2006, 06:32 PM // 18:32

This is actually getting a little disturbing. Thomas seems to have been banned for no reason as well (about 4 posts above this one). There are 2 separate threads with players that have been banned in Riverside right now. One resolved and the other closed by a mod (why they would close it makes no sense considering Anet sends people here for help). Think maybe someone needs to corner Gaile next time she is in LA and ask if there is an issue with the ban system.

To those debating the EULA ... this is helping how? Anet does whatever Anet wants and often does not feel compelled to explain why. Everyone is quick to side with Anet till it becomes more personal and happens to YOU. There needs to be some accountability because this is becoming more of a problem than most seem to think it is. My guild was even banned right before the playoffs (moustache riders [mR]) getting banned 2 days before playoffs meant we had no chance of getting back in them. The name was considered "offensive" no recourse disband and reform (hence new guild name and tag). Anet found us offensive yet Battery powered best friend [vibe] is not. I included that example for a reason ... there isnt any logical pattern to Anet and the ban stick and precious little recourse. So those wanting to debate what he/she did to deserve the ban don't bother unless your only goal is fluffing your post count.

Thomas, you need to start sending in support tickets NOW. Everytime they reply it will close your ticket. Make certain to continue to send in a new one each time they reply so that you open a NEW trouble ticket. With each new trouble ticket on same topic it moves up the Anet support chain ... EVENTUALLY someone actually reads it and does not autoreply. This is the person that will review you problem and will unban your account.

Thomas Valheru · Apr 17, 2006, 06:39 PM // 18:39

So what you're telling me is that after I get the "Your account was permanently closed because you engaged in the sale of in-game items for cash or other items with real world value, or you engaged in gathering items to be sold for cash or other items with real world value. Both actions are against our User Agreement, where Section 7 states, "You may not sell or auction any Guild Wars accounts, characters, items, coin or copyrighted material, nor may you assist others in doing so."

Protests regarding the termination of your Guild Wars game account will not be addressed or entertained. We will not accept appeals in cases such as this because of the depth of the analysis prior to the block. We regret the necessity of terminating any game account, but we will continue to take all necessary actions to protect the Guild Wars community and to assure that players are abiding by our User Agreement.

Please keep in mind that Guild Wars is a global game with hundreds of thousands of players. This means that standards of behavior must be upheld. For your convenience, you can obtain more information about our rules at the addresses listed below." I should send them another email? I'll give it a shot since I sure won't give up without a fight, thanks for your advice.

leprekan · Apr 17, 2006, 06:49 PM // 18:49

"Thomas, you need to start sending in support tickets NOW. Everytime they reply it will close your ticket. Make certain to continue to send in a new one each time they reply so that you open a NEW trouble ticket. With each new trouble ticket on same topic it moves up the Anet support chain ... EVENTUALLY someone actually reads it and does not autoreply. This is the person that will review you problem and will unban your account."

Yes, you have to send MANY emails to get past the autorespond stage of support. Each time they reply send another complaint till they are forced to actually read it (they have to close trouble tickets).

Thomas Valheru · Apr 17, 2006, 07:03 PM // 19:03

I'll give it a try, already have 2 tickets open, gonna open some more after school. Do you play on the American or Euro server? As they separate customer service they might also treat people differently. I'm on the American Server but I'm currently revieving support from the Euro server since I live in Sweden

kryshnysh · Apr 17, 2006, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Can new threads asking about being banned be given a link to this thread before being closed? Closing them doesn't do any good if ANet is sending them here to find out what to do in the first place.

leprekan · Apr 17, 2006, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Don't open NEW tickets ... keep the ones you have opened OPEN. Sorry if I didn't explain that better. It is the original complaint that you need to move up the support chain so multiple new tickets won't help. Just keep opening your ticket as they close it with demands for speaking with a real person on your ban. If you have only 2 emails going to support you haven't even gotten near a person yet. Your location won't matter you have to flood them to get to a person. Best of luck ... and by the time you get to 10 replies you should be logged back on to guild wars

Juk3n · Apr 17, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Me = Banned the Proof should be provided - there always has to be proof seen by both the Banners (A-net) and BY those banned. It sucks that this is not the case, afterall, if i paid £40 for my copy of the game on release only to have it Banned for all I KNOW is reasonless.

In the guys defense i have to ask 1 question..How can you prove your innocence against the system!? sad answer..u cant.

Quite a few of these threads pop-up and its hard not to sympathize with each one of them.afterall GUILTY people usually wont protest there innocents and chinese gold farmers hardly have enough time to troll Forums.

My 2 pence worth

leprekan · Apr 17, 2006, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Actually, there is a way to fight the system. This particular system is just a series of automated replies meant to discourage. You have to keep sending that complaint in till you get past them and to a real person. Anet is banking on people not bothering after one or two auto response go away answers. The secret is like all help desks ... they do not have a choice they have to close the trouble ticket. So the squeaky wheel will eventually be addressed.

Perhaps it is time for Guru to make a sticky with help information on what to do when banned.

Kitana · Apr 17, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Omg i started a Topic a week ago on a german forum about the fact that i fear to become banned for nothing....
and everyone said... nahhh cant happen they only ban guilty people they never do mistakes there blah blah....
And see i was right... damit and i have fear as owner of 3 accounts to become banned i spent to much time and effort in my accounts/chars ....
this nearly brought me to not buy Factions and stop playing Guild Wars
but i will buy it ,hoping i wont become banned for nothing....
But it sucks it definitly sucks that such things happen.... and i beg to Anet/NCsoft that such things plz will not happen in future anymore....
This hurts my trust in this company badly....
but that they saw that they did mistakes and unbanned some accounts is good and makes me feel even better than before where i thought they ban some people for nothing and wont correct it....

by the way sry for my lack of English language skill i hope everyone understands what i mean
^^

Count to Potato · Apr 17, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Suggestion, you might have sold some item to someone who sells things for cash????