Curse

Killed u man · Aug 17, 2010, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lishy

I don't get it.. If Guild Wars isn't about spamming damage skills on recharge, on an offensive profession, what is? The only builds that don't do that are interrupters, and healers.

What's up with this mentality anyway?

A good game should have a good risk/skill/reward ration. With Guild Wars, there is no inherent risk involved, aside from loosing Survivor, so we can assume the skill/reward ratio is what should determine how the game is played.

If you had a single skill that could kill all foes on the radar, it would be extremely awesome, but it comes at the cost that:

A) The game will become really boring extremely fast

and

*unrelated* B) Gold and items will be devalued to worthless in no time

And despite the fact that Guild Wars is an old game, many people would still rather have a challenge rather than an autopilot, simply because playing the game is more fun than having the game play for you.

Over the years, Anet have been buffing and buffing in PvE to such an extend that almost every item is worthless, gold is worthless, and people have no ways of accumulating real wealth outside of powertrading/merchanting. (Which is nothing but a legalized form of scamming)

Xiaquin · Aug 17, 2010, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Dervish armor is fine. Convince your pugs to bring prots and damage mitigation. If they don't, they are a liability.

Have to disagree. As a front-liner it's your job to be able to handle yourself and take the brunt of attacks. Dumping all responsibility to your party to protect *you* is just silly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lishy

/snip/ What's up with this mentality anyway?

My feelings exactly. I'm not sure where people got the idea that dull, repeating patterns of skill usage is a recent phenomenon. It's as old as brick.

belshazaarswrath · Aug 17, 2010, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Over the years, Anet have been buffing and buffing in PvE to such an extend that almost every item is worthless, gold is worthless, and people have no ways of accumulating real wealth outside of powertrading/merchanting. (Which is nothing but a legalized form of scamming)

This has a lot more to do with the introduction of inscriptions than powerful builds in my opinion.

G4ymBoy · Aug 17, 2010, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath

This has a lot more to do with the introduction of inscriptions than powerful builds in my opinion.

I really do think this is true. I remember an old friend who bought me a bow as a gift when it was just proph, the bow was 15^50 20/20 +30 q8 feathered longbow. It cost him 80k at the time. (I still use it every day).

So yes before inscriptions getting items with the desired inherent mod, not just that but a perfect mod was an expensive purchase. I mean the longbow I have is not the most amazing skin bht getting those mods was quite rare at the time.

IrishX · Aug 17, 2010, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

Have to disagree. As a front-liner it's your job to be able to handle yourself and take the brunt of attacks. Dumping all responsibility to your party to protect *you* is just silly.

As a frontliner, your job is to do damage. It is your party's job to help you do damage.

belshazaarswrath · Aug 17, 2010, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by G4ymBoy

I really do think this is true. I remember an old friend who bought me a bow as a gift when it was just proph, the bow was 15^50 20/20 +30 q8 feathered longbow. It cost him 80k at the time. (I still use it every day).

So yes before inscriptions getting items with the desired inherent mod, not just that but a perfect mod was an expensive purchase. I mean the longbow I have is not the most amazing skin bht getting those mods was quite rare at the time.

Whaaaaaa? that cheap? This must have been near the release of factions. Feathered Longbows were considered a rare skin for awhile. Something like that would have costed 100k+e when I first started playing. Then again money had a lot more value then than it does now.

Anyway yea getting a nice skin wasn't the only factor back in the day. If you had a great skin and crap mods you could kiss the money goodbye. While at the same time if you had a crap skin and great mods you might have a little bit of money on your hands.

Ah but those days are long since past. I swear heroes and inscriptions are what hurt PvE more than anything.

Cuilan · Aug 17, 2010, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

Have to disagree. As a front-liner it's your job to be able to handle yourself and take the brunt of attacks. Dumping all responsibility to your party to protect *you* is just silly.

Then that front liner is worthless. You're not doing your group any favor by devoting your bar to self preservation at the cost of damage. You can still tank 'n spank while killing stuff or not tank 'n spank at all and just kill stuff.

belshazaarswrath · Aug 17, 2010, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Then that front liner is worthless. You're not doing your group any favor by devoting your bar to self preservation at the cost of damage. You can still tank 'n spank while killing stuff or not tank 'n spank at all and just kill stuff.

?

Having higher armor doesn't equate to dealing less damage.

reaper with no name · Aug 17, 2010, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Cuilan was responding to the implication that it's better for a melee frontliner to focus on defense than on killing stuff. He's not talking about a class's innate survivability.

Xiaquin · Aug 17, 2010, 09:18 PM // 21:18

I didn't say one should devote the bar to defense, but as a dervish you have plenty of access to those skills. You shouldn't run a full bar of attacks, either, that's often reckless.

Edit: The case wasn't that a front-liner should focus more on defense, that's not what I said. I said a derv should have something to help them survive.

reaper with no name · Aug 17, 2010, 09:22 PM // 21:22

No, you should also bring Aura of Holy Might, Asuran Scan, and Save Yourselves at the very least.

But assuming that you can fuel your attacks (hello Zealous Vow), yes, it's generally better to bring offense, because if your party is any good, any defense you bring will prove redundant. And if your party isn't good, then bringing a tiny bit of defense won't help, because it will only affect 1/8th of the party.

belshazaarswrath · Aug 17, 2010, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Cuilan was responding to the implication that it's better for a melee frontliner to focus on defense than on killing stuff. He's not talking about a class's innate survivability.

Oh...well obviously. But you should bring some kind of defensive stuff...I mean conviction/pious renewal are there for a reason. Faithful intervention is also good for covering your ass.

Xiaquin · Aug 17, 2010, 10:06 PM // 22:06

I've played on both sides (melee and back line), and nothing irks me more than knowing my front-line put no effort into self-preservation. I'm not asking for much in a pug, even 1 good skill can go a long way, such as Conviction or Armor of Sanctity. Just do something instead of nothing.

Cuilan · Aug 18, 2010, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath

I mean conviction/pious renewal are there for a reason. Faithful intervention is also good for covering your ass.

Pious Renewal and Faithful Intervention are terrible skills. Conviction by itself is fine and doesn't require high attribute investment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

You shouldn't run a full bar of attacks, either, that's often reckless.

You should have enough attack skills to boost your damage and skills that boost the damage of your attack skills while maintaining energy.

Sirius Bsns · Aug 18, 2010, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath

Oh...well obviously. But you should bring some kind of defensive stuff...I mean conviction/pious renewal are there for a reason. Faithful intervention is also good for covering your ass.

Faithful Intervention takes too long to cast and has a greater recharge than Watchful Intervention. That, and you can only use it on yourself as opposed to Watchful. Conviction is fairly decent. Pious Renewal outside of a dervish healer is not worth an elite slot, tbh...

belshazaarswrath · Aug 18, 2010, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

Faithful Intervention takes too long to cast and has a greater recharge than Watchful Intervention. That, and you can only use it on yourself as opposed to Watchful. Conviction is fairly decent. Pious Renewal outside of a dervish healer is not worth an elite slot, tbh...

Eh? Vow of Piety is a virtually endless +24 armor boost with a little regen on top. Not a bad skill in my opinion...not that I actually use it myself. I only run 2 Derv builds nowadays...and they don't have space for it.

Cuilan · Aug 18, 2010, 04:27 AM // 04:27

I don't know how you confused Vow of Piety with Pious Renewal?

Xiaquin · Aug 18, 2010, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

You should have enough attack skills to boost your damage and skills that boost the damage of your attack skills while maintaining energy.

So roughly 6 skills, give or take. Since you generally wouldn't need a res, you have options. All I have said is that the option for defense is there, there's room for it, and in a random pug, there's no reason not to bring something, maybe not so much in NM, but definitely HM.

StormX · Aug 18, 2010, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Not this tired argument again...If you want to bring a bar full of attacks and charge into the fray scythes blazing go ahead but don't be surprised if you start racking up dp, seeing as the average pug monk can't prot for shit. (Recalls a bogroot run where the monks managed to let me die like a dozen times even with 700+ hp boosted by cons. yeah, that was epic FAIL, cause someone died every few minutes)

I'd only consider running all out offensive with H/H, those at least are moderately reliable.

and yes, I'm talking HM here. why can't you spare 2-3 skill slots to supplement your measley 70 AR? A dervish has no heavy armor or shield unlike a warrior..

ps. the point of faithful intervention is its infinite duration, so that you can use skills that require you to be enchanted without stopping to cast an enchant every few seconds

belshazaarswrath · Aug 18, 2010, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

I don't know how you confused Vow of Piety with Pious Renewal?

A sea of skills. My mistake.