Curse

Kook~NBK~ · Aug 28, 2010, 09:20 AM // 09:20

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Originally Posted by Sauron The Greatest

And most of the people who don't want HB back are the ones who don't give a crap about it, they probably tried to play the format and since they failed to be successful they hate it.

It's not a question of wanting it back or not wanting it back. It's a question of how long will it take former HB players and HB abusers (there's a distinction to be made there) to realize that it's not coming back.

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There are ways to fix HB from being abused, EASY ways.

That's probably true.

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I've played HB since the format was implemented and I can tell you that Red Resign only started to be popular when they announced that the format was being removed, and I'm sure that if anet announced that HA or GvG were being removed then people would abuse it too to try to farm the last points for their title.

It may have only gained popularity among the serious HB players, such as yourself, later on, but for the z-key/title farmers it became the way to "play" the day of the update. This thread proves it: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/g...ght=Red+Resign

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From your posts in this thread I can clearly see that you have some kind of feud against HB, some people enjoyed it you know?

I can't speak for the others. But as for me, I've got nothng against HBs. My opinion is that it's gone and not coming back and the issue needs to be laid to rest.

Terrible Surgeon · Aug 28, 2010, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

It's not a question of wanting it back or not wanting it back. It's a question of how long will it take former HB players and HB abusers (there's a distinction to be made there) to realize that it's not coming back.

It has been almost a year and we are still here questioning the reasons behind the removal...i guess HB had a more loyal support base than you and others think.

Do you see a ton of TA players whining? No..they just sync RA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

I can't speak for the others. But as for me, I've got nothng against HBs. My opinion is that it's gone and not coming back and the issue needs to be laid to rest.

If enough people voted "yes" on a poll for HB coming back i think anet should do it...

Elnino · Aug 28, 2010, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

I wasn't sure how long after the Z-things were added that they removed the /roll form PvP areas, but I was 100% correct in saying that RR came up right after it was removed. Here's proof: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/g...ght=Red+Resign (find the humor in post #6 on your way down to post #15 in that thread)

P.S. Rock/Paper/Scissors never caught on.

I did not say that Red Resign wasn't around after the 4th anniversary update. I know that people tried to do it. However, if you paid attention, it did not catch on. That link you provided only showed what the /roll abusers were doing as a result of /roll being nerfed. It was the next best thing according to them. However, it did not catch on and many people didn't see the need to participate, hence, it wasn't a problem.

Then after Anet announced HB's removal, the Red Resign concept was resurrected as a way to acquire those commander points that people needed for their HoM. Unfortunately, people started to realize how easy it was to farm balthazar faction using red resign. That's when it started becoming a problem. People were farming two things at once. People who didn't care for commander points started doing it because it was a quick way to earn money.

To summarize:
-Before Anet announced HB's removal, Red Resign was used to acquire commander points but not enough people cared to do it, therefore, it wasn't a problem.
-After Anet announced HB's removal, Red Resign was used to acquire commander points but this time, people cared to do it because of the HoM benefit. Later, they realized it was a damn quick way to earn money, and they spread it around the community, telling people how much money can be earned. That's when it became a problem.

Missing HB · Aug 28, 2010, 10:24 AM // 10:24

Well, many people are saying to just consider HB is gone , and that it won't come back , but did those people even went in Codex arena , not even to try play it , but just to check how many players are there ?

Main problem comes to the fact that there wasn't ANY update in codex , and that the format isn't even worth half of TA or HB alone , and both formats were deleted for NO VALID reason ( else other formats, including codex , would already have been deleted ).
As Terrible Surgeon said , the few people who played TA are syncing in RA , but what can HB'ers do since we cant use heroes in ANY PVP place ( not even in zaishen defy , which is incredible ) ...

Kook~NBK~ · Aug 28, 2010, 10:42 AM // 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elnino

I did not say that Red Resign wasn't around after the 4th anniversary update. I know that people tried to do it. However, if you paid attention, it did not catch on. That link you provided only showed what the /roll abusers were doing as a result of /roll being nerfed. It was the next best thing according to them. However, it did not catch on and many people didn't see the need to participate, hence, it wasn't a problem.

The /roll abusers were the ones I was talking about. It didn't take them long to find a different way to abuse the system. And RR DID become popular for those people who only showed up for HBs when that was the Z-Combat for the day and/or when there was a double points weekend in HB's. RR days were very popular among those people from the get-go because of amount Z-Keys they could farm up in a very short time.

Of course, there were a lot of people who took advantage of RR players by NOT doing RR and whuppin' the snot out of their blue opponents.

I agree with you about RR gaining popularity after the announcement of the removal of HB's. It may not have been popular amongst the HB regulars until then, but the "scrubs" loved it.

Lanier · Aug 28, 2010, 02:37 PM // 14:37

I think we are missing the point here. What is the point of having this poll if anet isn't going to reinstitute it anyway. We can talk all we want about whether HB was good or bad, but the topic of this thread is a poll related to reinstituting HB and there is really no point in that if it has no chance of being reinstituted anyway.

Fluffy Kittens · Aug 28, 2010, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Point of having this poll is to convince Anet they made a huge mistake and they can still fix it.

Missing HB · Aug 28, 2010, 04:06 PM // 16:06

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Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

Point of having this poll is to convince Anet they made a huge mistake and they can still fix it.

And " balanced " players in HA would be happy since all sins would go back in Hero Battles. Fix all problems ..

Lanier · Aug 28, 2010, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

Point of having this poll is to convince Anet they made a huge mistake and they can still fix it.

But they arn't going to bring back HB. Lol... I mean it seems like a lot of guys here are operating under the assumption that anet might actually bring back HB.

Thevil King · Aug 28, 2010, 07:15 PM // 19:15

tl;dr is in bold

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It's not a question of wanting it back or not wanting it back. It's a question of how long will it take former HB players and HB abusers (there's a distinction to be made there) to realize that it's not coming back.

maybe it really isnt coming back, but that is solid proof, amongst MANY other things, of anets incompetence. having been a long time hb player myself, i can tell you this was one of the most serious; 2 entire gw communities, hb&ta, were backstabbed by anets fail decision.

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It may have only gained popularity among the serious HB players, such as yourself, later on, but for the z-key/title farmers it became the way to "play" the day of the update. This thread proves it: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/g...ght=Red+Resign

i have played over 8k games in 2009, and i have friends who played just as much, one of them over 20k games that yr alone. since we were tankers, we played pretty much at every rank, anywhere from 600 rating to 2000. when we were not playing rated we synced and played unrated for fun. i can tell you myself i have never seen ppl getting on with rr before the end of august 2009 (announcement of hb/ta removal), nor have i heard my friends do any of them. sure ppl were talking about this idea of red resign, hence your "proof", but nobody actually got around doing it. there is a difference between forum threads and the real game, you know.

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I can't speak for the others. But as for me, I've got nothng against HBs. My opinion is that it's gone and not coming back and the issue needs to be laid to rest.

many of my friends who did hb and ta quit for good after the removal, and im not someone who cares much anymore. but honestly its really disappointing to see all the ignorant posts on guru (even 1yr after the fact), by ppl who never took hb srsly, misattributing all kinds of vices to the format when they have no idea what happend. its ridiculous and unfair to those players who honestly cared for the format and lobbied for changes.

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And if Anet does decide to focus on Anet, I would rather them focus on fixing codex rather than adding back HB.

as of now, 2010, do you really think that anet will care to do anything with codex, fixing it? the only reason codex was untouched because nobody even plays it; at least hb/ta had some sort of community, and there were ppl who actually cared.

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If they bring HB back, they'll also be bringing back /roll 100, red-resigns, shadow-stepping abusages, etc.. There's nothing fun about that. People did it to build their Commander titles and flaunt it.

the same old fallacious argument ppl used against hb.
1. /roll-was removed after 4th yr anniversary. if it took more than 2yrs to remove it, doesnt that show how bad anet is at maintaining their game? wtf does that have to do with hb if that is the case? since it was alrdy removed, how can it possibly be abused?

2. rr-as stated by several ppl(who actually took hb srsly and played it for a sufficient amount of time), rr was only a problem when anet announced to remove hb.

3. shadowstepping/ai/skill abuses-tbh, abuses on this calibre has existed in pretty much every pvp format. remember signet of ghostly might abuse? it took several hrs to be fixed. now look at shadowstepping and r/p abuse in hb, it is exactly the same kind of skill abuse, in that only a few skills were involved, but when was it fixed? never.

if the (even the long range ones)shadowstepping skills were fixed(properly), the game play in hb would improve significantly, though not perfect but still. unfortuneately, it never happend- anet never cared to listen to any of the advices of competent hb players.

and the thing about commander title, lol. if this argument applies then we might as well remove hero title and emote, cuz thats the most flaunted title in game.

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When 90% of the players in the monthly tournament were named "fix crossing plz" or some variant, you know the system is broken.

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There were what, four monthly finals that people threw just to make a statement? How competitive can that be?

they did that because they CARED about the format. when ppl do things like that, you can tell right away how desperate they are in trying to get anet to listen. yet ppl with ulterior motives still misrepresent these actions by labeling them as the reason of the broken format. the reason ppl played joke builds in finals and change their name to "fix xxx" was because they care about the format.

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They said no.

the days where the devs are in touch with pvp are long gone. its up to the players to give proper advice that would help the game rather than take in whatever fail decision that has been made.

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I'm not seeing any sort of "bring hb back" momentum on guru or in-game.

whenver i see some post with a decent amount of hb discussion in it, most often the mods would try to suppress it. ive seen tonnes of threads deleted this way. idk if this one will suffer the same fate. but just because you dont see them does not mean they do not exist

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Also called "exploiting the AI". Seriously, any PvE scrub can do that. Ooooh, what skill.

its called micro, back in the early days of hb this was a srs skill. i can guarantee you a decent hb player will beat any "pve scrub" who "exploits the AI".

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it's not like balance in HB was sooOOOOooo perfect that it wouldn't require various skill and AI adjustments.

well, if you did play hb srsly(which i assume not), you would know that there really isnt much to fix. as i have said before, only major problem was the shadowsteps, which isnt much tbh. in addition, name me a "perfect" format in regular gw pvp right now, gvg? ha? codex? ab? loooooool. dball cb rbr or snowball doesnt count btw, these were made back when the game was good(and remained largely unchanged).

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Everything I've seen everyone say here about bringing it back is the same stuff that was spouted off back when the arena was shut down. ANet didn't make a move to bring it back then, so I doubt that the same story is going to convince them to do it now.

im sry, but your argument isnt even slightly convincing. ppl with legit complaints, comments, and advices should be able to post them regardless of the authorities decisions. why is it legit? for all the reasons ive stated above and several posts made in this thread. the fact that there was the same stuff spouted off since it was shut down means that hb does have a dedicated community, and anet made a bad move deleting the format. yet you manipulate your argument as if it is the case otherwise.

it humors me to see ppl who nvr really cared about hb back then lobbying for implementation of codex, thinking that it is a pro format. more still are the same ppl now, even after seeing what they got with codex, are criticizing hb as if codex is any better. maybe hb wont be brought back, it is very likely that would be the case. but if so, im sure those who are intelligent enough will see how bad anet is running their game. as of now, i have lost much enthusiasm for gw2 just because of this.

Elnino · Aug 29, 2010, 02:03 AM // 02:03

This is a list that Wicca created on the wiki which outlines the possible changes that could have been done to improve HB.

1.Disable all forms of teleportation/shadowsteps-Teleports tied right in with the "capping" emphasis that was present in HB. They allowed players (and heroes) to teleport from one place to another at great distances to reduce travel time between shrines and evidently, allowed for much greater capping power. A common suggestion among HBers was to remove any form of teleportation from Hero Battles. This will include Shadow Meld, Shadow of Haste, Return, Recall, Wastrel's Collapse and much more. Similar to how PvE skills are disabled in PvP, make it so that teleports are disabled in Hero Battles. This will not be a band-aid. There is no replacement to teleports

2.Increase adrenaline cost for Barbed Spear-By increasing the adrenaline cost of Barbed Spear, the R/P's ability to spread bleeding will be less effective.

3-Give "Coward" a recharge OR No more 1-2-3 sins-The Jagged Strike->Fox Fangs->Death Blossom/Critical Strike build made spamming "Coward" very easy to do because of the assassin's fast activating skills, they were able to pretty much spam "Coward" on their target.

4.Limit to only one of each profession-Just like in CA. This will solve a number of problems in HB regarding multiple copies of the same build. Such as the Dual Meldway and the 3 R/P builds and the dual monk builds.

5.Heroes cannot be body blocked by spirits and pets AND Fix the AI issues/bugs- Need I explain?

6.Slow down the morale meter- A very important one - The relatively high speed of the morale meter emphasized and promoted the use of capping builds. Slowing down the morale meter will give the opponent more time to score kills and will make capping builds less effective. Alternatively, match times could be increased to 15 minutes and will also make capping builds less effective.

7.Remove the 'Crossing'- we don't want it. Too many problems in this Map

8.Have a rank requirement in order to get Commander points- Similar to the Champion title. Make it so that people must be in the top 5000 in order to gain points towards the title. This will stop players from purposely losing rating (known as tanking) in order to "farm points" by winning against lower ranked players. However, while adding a rank requirement, there should be greater rewards at the higher levels so that there will actually be a reason to go up the ladder. An idea is to give more points depending on your rank. The top 10 players will gain 5 points per win. Top 20 will gain 4 points per win. Top 100 will gain 3 points per win. Top 1000 will gain 2 points per win and top 5000 (rank requirement) will gain 1 point per win. The points should be given out regardless of what rank the opponent is.

9.No HB ZQuest-Alternatively, you could decrease the amount of Balthazar faction that is rewarded (maybe only 1000-2000)

Source:http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...een_done_to_HB
These are some of the suggestions made by the Hero Battles community. I can't think of any more changes that can be added to the list. Any other HBers know some solutions that were missed?

If you think about it, the only thing on that list that would take more time to fix is the AI issues and Bug fixes.

@Mods: Hows about you create that poll?

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This is the point we are trying to make. People who don't care whether HB is re-instituted or not are running rampant saying "NO" when they actually don't care what the outcome is. If you don't care about HB, you don't have an opinion for it, so please leave this thread which is for people who actually care if HB is re-instituted or not.

If you don't care about HB, you wouldn't mind if it came back, since it wouldn't affect you at all. People who are both saying NO obviously have some grudge against Hero Battles.

If you don't care about Hero Battles, put yourselves in the HBer's shoes. How would you feel if your favourite format was removed?

Lanier · Aug 29, 2010, 05:10 AM // 05:10

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Originally Posted by Elnino

@Mods: Hows about you create that poll?

There isn't any point in creating the poll if anet isn't going to reinstitute hero battles. I may not be against (or for) hero battles being reinstituted but i am against us asking for silly polls that arnt going to bring any results. It would just be a waste of the little mod's time and effort.

EDIT: actually, upon further thought, I am against HB being reinstituted. The reason for this is because it would waste time that anet could spend working on other game improvements (like fixing codex). However, this is admittedly kind of beside the point as this thread is not about ways that HB should have/should not have been fixed, but it is a thread about whether a poll should be made.

Missing HB · Aug 29, 2010, 06:33 AM // 06:33

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Originally Posted by Lanier

There isn't any point in creating the poll if anet isn't going to reinstitute hero battles. I may not be against (or for) hero battles being reinstituted but i am against us asking for silly polls that arnt going to bring any results. It would just be a waste of the little mod's time and effort.

EDIT: actually, upon further thought, I am against HB being reinstituted. The reason for this is because it would waste time that anet could spend working on other game improvements (like fixing codex). However, this is admittedly kind of beside the point as this thread is not about ways that HB should have/should not have been fixed, but it is a thread about whether a poll should be made.

I hope you aren't serious.. Check the number of updates which happened recently... I can think of that joke henchmen contest , where it was clearly said that meta bars wouldnt be taken , and finally it's what won ( yes , let's not waste time finding .. ) . Since that update , there were no single update in PvP ( i'm not going to consider random 3 skills nerfed every 3 months ) .

So , whereas HB code is still there , and looking the amount of effort they put in updates , adding back HB would be even easierfor them

I Elite Starchild I · Aug 29, 2010, 07:19 AM // 07:19

All these threads asking to 'bring back HB' make me laugh. Their just isn't enough people on the live team to baby sit every format so the community won't exploit the problems.

The ONLY way I ever see it coming back is by removing ALL rewards/incentives from HB. No balth faction, no title points, no zkeys, no ladder support. Then the HB players can forever dwindle in HB and stop making threads to bring back a format just to farm title points/zkeys/faction.

Sirius Bsns · Aug 29, 2010, 07:31 AM // 07:31

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Originally Posted by I Elite Starchild I

All these threads asking to 'bring back HB' make me laugh. Their just isn't enough people on the live team to baby sit every format so the community won't exploit the problems.

The ONLY way I ever see it coming back is by removing ALL rewards/incentives from HB. No balth faction, no title points, no zkeys, no ladder support. Then the HB players can forever dwindle in HB and stop making threads to bring back a format just to farm title points/zkeys/faction.

I guarantee you almost nobody would play HB if it weren't farmable/exploitable/etc. That's the main reason why most players want HB back, but they'll just never admit it to us.

Elnino · Aug 29, 2010, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Elite Starchild I

All these threads asking to 'bring back HB' make me laugh. Their just isn't enough people on the live team to baby sit every format so the community won't exploit the problems.

The ONLY way I ever see it coming back is by removing ALL rewards/incentives from HB. No balth faction, no title points, no zkeys, no ladder support. Then the HB players can forever dwindle in HB and stop making threads to bring back a format just to farm title points/zkeys/faction.

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Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

I guarantee you almost nobody would play HB if it weren't farmable/exploitable/etc. That's the main reason why most players want HB back, but they'll just never admit it to us.

You sirs, are idiots.

The people who want Hero Battles back don't want to farm title points,zkeys or faction. We want it back because WE ENJOYED IT. The title points are just there as a reward for a victory. I don't care about the faction or the zkeys. I never did the zquest while it was around, there was no need for me to do it. You people need to understand that the majority of people that abused HB (RR mainly) were PvE'ers. PvE'ers live to make money, that's why they came to HB on zquest day, to make money. No zquest, no PvE'ers.

Us HBers loved it for what it was, not what we got out of it.

Since there isn't enough people on the live team to babysit every format; how about we stop babysitting Pve? PvE gets so much love compared to PvP and the PvE'ers are still crying for more. Funny thing is, PvE doesn't actually have any serious problems whereas PvP still does. Enough with Pve, give something back to PvP

Missing HB · Aug 29, 2010, 08:32 AM // 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Elite Starchild I

All these threads asking to 'bring back HB' make me laugh. Their just isn't enough people on the live team to baby sit every format so the community won't exploit the problems.

The ONLY way I ever see it coming back is by removing ALL rewards/incentives from HB. No balth faction, no title points, no zkeys, no ladder support. Then the HB players can forever dwindle in HB and stop making threads to bring back a format just to farm title points/zkeys/faction.

You realize that's because there is a ladder and tournaments that HB was most fun. Players wouldn't care if you removed title , quest or anything. But removing that competitive part would for sure make noone play it.
Do you think there would be players left in GvG if they removed ladder or tourneys ?

reaper with no name · Aug 29, 2010, 08:40 AM // 08:40

/notsigned

It was a broken format abused by farmers. Let the dead stay dead. Please.

Terrible Surgeon · Aug 29, 2010, 10:21 AM // 10:21

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Originally Posted by reaper with no name

/notsigned

It was a broken format abused by farmers. Let the dead stay dead. Please.

Sounds like you know jack squat..you probably went and got your Zquest and went to wiki and farmed it. Unless you have a valid argument get off of this thread.

/signed for a poll to delegate the renewal of HB.

Earth · Aug 29, 2010, 02:17 PM // 14:17

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Originally Posted by Terrible Surgeon

Unless you have a valid argument get off of this thread.

Every argument against HB is waved off as coming from someone who abused RR day or someone who never played HB.

Also, how many people actually played HB? A lot of top players had a shitload of socks AFAIK.