Curse

jazilla · Sep 06, 2010, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcy

You do realize that they have all (and I mean all) been involved with the two trade shows? They had the run up to Gamescom, then the whole company played in the demo so the world would be populated with more than 40-50 clueless people. They got a week to recover and then get ready for PAX, where the whole company, once again, is playing in the demo for the PAX gamers. At least they won't need so much recovery time next week as they are on the same time zone, although after working the entire weekend, they do deserve comp time off.

And, considering that we have been waiting since the release of EotN for this information, I don't think a few weeks wait now is too much with which to cope.

you are right it isn't too much of a wait and i said as much in a later post. my comment was not made about the wait. it was made about what the dev said and how he said it. he knew that he had PAX coming up lol. i did however say in a later post that it's not a big deal. i just wanted to bust his chops a bit about it.

Godefridus · Sep 06, 2010, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Let's not forget that very soon is a relative indication. Compared to the whole period that it takes to develop a game with a size of GW2 the term "very soon" in the minds of the developers is probably closer to "in some time" in the opinion of a lot of people

In addition, for ANet, just like GamesCon, PAX was all about presenting GW2 and the demo to a larger audience. Probably ANet did not want it's staff at PAX having to spend a large chunk of their time being on the defense on the HoM linkage. Cause no matter how the linkage will be, it surely will cause quite some discussion, some will love it, some will hate it, and everything inbetween. So publishing any information on the linkage would only distract from the matter at hand at PAX, being the demo.

Now that PAX is over I am confident that we will actually see the information on the HoM linkage "very soon"

Hyperventilate · Sep 06, 2010, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Femmefatal

If they gave something like some silver or gold lined cape I'd be ok with that. Anything that is merely COSMETIC and no combat or defensive value would be ok as that's just VANITY and I could care less about that. I still only wear 1500gp gear in GW and I've been playing since the start. It's a waste of cash to buy silly clothing for looks. Man if you need vanity in a GAME you really do have problems in life.

Anyways back to reality I sure hope they allow 7 heroes soon.

I don't understand your logic. If vanity is unnecessary, do you live without hot water, carpet, paint on your walls, pets, anything other than bread and water, soap, a computer (???), so on and so forth?

I mean, if I have issues IRL, apparently I need the pretty shiny things in a game to compensate for the pretty shiny things I don't have in life.

Its a game, it's meant to be fun, and if you can flaunt some accomplishments, who does it hurt?

Sure, the HoM will be purely cosmetic (I assume), with a few minor advantages here and there (Speculation), I don't see why just because it isn't necessary makes it useless.

But, one man's treasure is another man's trash.

dancing gnome · Sep 06, 2010, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyperventilate

I don't understand your logic. If vanity is unnecessary, do you live without hot water, carpet, paint on your walls, pets, anything other than bread and water, soap, a computer (???), so on and so forth?

He said vanity "in a game" not vanity in real life. Most of your post was full of jumbled logic and you kept missing the point.

Personally I like collecting things in games but I hate joining new games that have legacy items from old games, especially when some of those legacy items are VERY hard or impossible to obtain.

Honestly it's not fair to new Guild Wars 2 players if they start playing this brand new game and on day one all the Guild Wars 1 players are running around with ecto hands and tormented weapons, being trailed by mini pandas. It's not really fair to a lot of Guild Wars 1 players who played the game, completed the campaigns and quests but didn't grind out HoM recognition (95% of HoM recognition is grind based and unnatural game play that people are unlikely to participate in unless a "title" told them to) - this was a common criticism in Eye of the North reviews. Reviewers had completed all 3 campaigns (and experienced over 90% if the game's content) and were excited to have their "achievements" recognised, only to find completing over 90% of the game resulted in maybe 5% of your hall being filled.

Now I've accepted that the HoM will link to GW2 in some way (it was advertised as a selling point for EotN and thus ArenaNet would be in big trouble if they backed off on it) and we now know it will work in a points system rather than a direct transference (no super awesome looking sword of the God Walking Amongst Mere Mortals for GWAMM title holders, no Legendary Vanquisher Laser Goggles for that title, no Tankard of the Drunkard for the stop watch clicking, district switching clickathons and no rusty Tormented Shield sitting around for 250 years). My hope is that a full hall (filling each shrine with any combination of titles/weapons/armours/skins) will reward max points and the glowing statue will become irrelevant, any additional titles and items in Guild Wars 1 are just for the completionists, not a "reward goal" for a different game. To me this is the fairest balance between rewarding GW1 players without making the "best legacy points reward item" requiring a player to climb the Everest that is title grinding, gold farming, mini pet hoarding. It would also be the closest to rewarding players for playing the game normally as opposed to unnatural grind based gameplay to keep people around longer - it's not too much work to get a full hall (aside from the weapons) just by completing all the game's content and using the money you got to buy the cheaper minis. Elite armour is about as expensive as the weapons, but any armour can go in (and players usually purchase at least one set for a toon) whereas the weapons were undesirable compared to hundreds of other options.

Xiaquin · Sep 06, 2010, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancing gnome

Honestly it's not fair to new Guild Wars 2 players if they start playing this brand new game and on day one all the Guild Wars 1 players are running around with ecto hands and tormented weapons, being trailed by mini pandas.

Unless it's been confirmed, I'm really doubting anything will be directly ported from GW to GW2. The claim is rewards, not "bring all your stuff with you when you go to the new game". That would indeed be a tragedy, and kind of a lazy implementation if you ask me.

I just hope we get to use reward points in a pool and can select anything without limits (e.g., if you need Tormented weapons in your hall to get certain reward weapons). Any achievements should contribute to any rewards.

MicroB · Sep 06, 2010, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancing gnome

Honestly it's not fair to new Guild Wars 2 players if they start playing this brand new game and on day one all the Guild Wars 1 players are running around with ecto hands and tormented weapons, being trailed by mini pandas. It's not really fair to a lot of Guild Wars 1 players who played the game, completed the campaigns and quests but didn't grind out HoM recognition (95% of HoM recognition is grind based and unnatural game play that people are unlikely to participate in unless a "title" told them to)

Nah, it wouldn't bother your average gamer.

Only OCD nerds will jump out and whine about this.

Seriously, I wouldn't mind if they gave those long-time GW 1 players some godly gear, special spells or flying dragon mount.

I think A.net should reward them.

It would be a big "F U" from A.net if a filled HoM only gave a title and some lame minipets. I know I'd be pissed if I had spent that many hours on it.

Also, you can go back to GW 1 at anytime to get these rewards. So stop complaining.

Anyway, some reward suggestions:
- some epic skin "dye" with unlimited uses for weapon and armor. Apply it to any sword, and it'll turn into a badass flaming sword of doom (with same stats as the weapon/armor applied to).

- a spell that summons the ghost of Prince Rurik that fights by your side.

- stuff

That is all.

aspi · Sep 06, 2010, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicroB

Nah, it wouldn't bother your average gamer.

Only OCD nerds will jump out and whine about this.

Seriously, I wouldn't mind if they gave those long-time GW 1 players some godly gear, special spells or flying dragon mount.

I think A.net should reward them.

It would be a big "F U" from A.net if a filled HoM only gave a title and some lame minipets. I know I'd be pissed if I had spent that many hours on it.

Also, you can go back to GW 1 at anytime to get these rewards. So stop complaining.

Anyway, some reward suggestions:
- some epic skin "dye" with unlimited uses for weapon and armor. Apply it to any sword, and it'll turn into a badass flaming sword of doom (with same stats as the weapon/armor applied to).

- a spell that summons the ghost of Prince Rurik that fights by your side.

- stuff

That is all.

No thanks, Rurik will probably aggro the whole area and get you killed :/

Aba · Sep 06, 2010, 07:33 PM // 19:33

WTB Elite Area in guildwars 2
Can only enter if you happen to be a God amongst mere Mortals

SpyderArachnid · Sep 06, 2010, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Femmefatal

Man if you need vanity in a GAME you really do have problems in life.

You do realize most games work to make their game appealing vanity wise by enhancing the graphics and making sure the environment is stunning right? That is vanity in a game. Would you rather run around as stick figures on a white background? Saying someone has real life issues cause they want a visually appealing game is just borderline retarded.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Femmefatal

Anyways back to reality I sure hope they allow 7 heroes soon.

There is already a topic on allowing seven heroes, so go there. This is a discussion about the rewards for the Hall of Monuments.

OT: The only thing I expect from the rewards, is points based off what you displayed. A set amount of points that maxes out to what you have only displayed. That way it is fair to everyone. Giving bonus points for specific items of different qualities or different titles I believe, is not a smart move. Seeing as most titles you have to farm for, and we know Anet's stand on farming, why should you be rewarded bonuses points for farming more than someone else?

I only want cosmetic items for my rewards. Something like a cool outfit to wear around town, a unique minipet, or even some flashy emote. That is it. I don't expect some huge reward, cause Guild Wars 2 is a whole new game as Anet stated. Be glad you even get anything for your accomplishments in Guild Wars 1.

fr.aodhan · Sep 06, 2010, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancing gnome

Honestly it's not fair to new Guild Wars 2 players if they start playing this brand new game and on day one all the Guild Wars 1 players are running around with ecto hands and tormented weapons, being trailed by mini pandas.

Why is that? I believe that it will hurt the feel of the game if we skip directly to the elite content, and I agree that it's not preferable, but why is it not fair? The GW2 player, for whatever reason, didn't put out the effort and so shouldn't expect to have the same sorts of rewards. Are you indicating here that they'll be stripped of the opportunity to enjoy a clean game without gaudy characters breaking the environment? If so, then I do agree, but that will be a problem with the elite content of GW2 itself. Within the first week, someone will find a way to stand out.

Quote:

It's not really fair to a lot of Guild Wars 1 players who played the game, completed the campaigns and quests but didn't grind out HoM recognition (95% of HoM recognition is grind based and unnatural game play that people are unlikely to participate in unless a "title" told them to) - this was a common criticism in Eye of the North reviews.

Grinding is costly enough that fairness doesn't seem to enter into the equation. It requires an investment of time and effort that most people would be unwilling, even if they were able, to devote to the game. I'd suggest that anyone who feels slighted by not getting max rewards to try the exercise themselves - it's not trivial.

Quote:

Reviewers had completed all 3 campaigns (and experienced over 90% if the game's content) and were excited to have their "achievements" recognised, only to find completing over 90% of the game resulted in maybe 5% of your hall being filled.

I sympathize, but this is less a problem with the system than the human mind. We tend not to remember the fact that we saved the world three times over, but manage to focus on the cobwebs in the HoM. We can't simultaneously have space for grinders and not have players perceive that space as a personal failure. The HoM is a metric for grinders; if the casual player is viewing it as a measure of their accomplishments, they're looking in the wrong place.

If the casual player is looking for personal satisfaction, they should get that from the campaign rewards and (in my opinion) fairly epic cutscenes and final areas. Walking down the paths of companions all cheering for me was more than a little touching. The moment I decided I wanted something more than that, though, I put myself at the mercy of the grinding system. It's there if I want it; it's my fault if I misinterpret it.

Iuris · Sep 06, 2010, 09:25 PM // 21:25

"Fair" is not in the equation. Alienating potential new costumers, not to mention the vast majority of old costumers who don't go for HoM filling, that IS in the equation.

MicroB · Sep 06, 2010, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iuris

"Fair" is not in the equation. Alienating potential new costumers, not to mention the vast majority of old costumers who don't go for HoM filling, that IS in the equation.

Like I said a few post above, it won't.
No decent gamer will give a shit, and still play the game.
Screw the OCD whiners.

Your casual gamer will ask where they got the epic stuff, and then they'll just shrug and keep playing GW2 when they learn it was a reward.

Reward these long time players, A.Net.
They've earned it.

jazilla · Sep 06, 2010, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancing gnome

Personally I like collecting things in games but I hate joining new games that have legacy items from old games, especially when some of those legacy items are VERY hard or impossible to obtain.

You can still earn this stuff in GW1 once GW2 comes out. People that have started GW2 will still be able to unlock this stuff in GW1. I can understand your point if once GW2 came out the HoM rewards were somehow locked, but they aren't. You have to realize too that many of us were interested in unlocking the HoM rewards for GW2 while we were playing GW1. That was the allure. My thinking was, "Oh wow, I can get these cool statues/titles/etc. here in GW1, and then I will get cool stuff in GW2 as well?!" For a lot of us, that was the whole point. ANET got that a lot of us are about that too. So yeah, when you see me and all my "GWAMM" stuff in GW2 you can care or not. I didn't do it for you, I did it for my account, and because that is how i like to play.

Horus Moonlight · Sep 07, 2010, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicroB

Like I said a few post above, it won't.
No decent gamer will give a shit, and still play the game.
Screw the OCD whiners.

Your casual gamer will ask where they got the epic stuff, and then they'll just shrug and keep playing GW2 when they learn it was a reward.

Reward these long time players, A.Net.
They've earned it.

Both of your posts did not have anything to substantiate your claims. I guess I'll just make an equally credible post.

Every decent gamer will give a shit, and probably not play the game.
Screw the OCD whiners (cwutididthar).

Your casual gamer will ask where they got the epic stuff, and then they'll be annoyed that there is an elite class right at the onset and reconsider playing GW2 when they learn it was a reward.

Reward these long time players, ANet within reason.
They've "earned" it.

Godefridus · Sep 07, 2010, 08:31 AM // 08:31

I see several people mentioning that those who start playing GW2 still have the opportunity to play GW1 and earn the "rewards" retroactively. Yeah sure, that's a good argument, telling people to go and play a completely different game to get something l33t in another game, doh... I don't think so. Would be nice cross marketing though (like the aion wings in GW).

Most people accept it if others get something special in a game if they purchase a collector's edition, or something like the BMP. After all, everyone then has the choice to spend these extra bucks on the game or not in return for these items. In none of these cases however is it required to actually first play a completely different game. Even with the Aion wings you did not have to actually play Aion but only had to pay for it.

Now there are several options for crowd and damage control with regard to the GW2 "rewards". For example they can make them not that special. Not making the "rewards" that special will make the "new" GW2 players and the more "casual" player from GW1 happy, but will probably cause an uproar with a small part of the players that "migrated" from GW1. However the latter group will probably still try their hands on GW2 as they are probably too curious and fanatic to definitely turn their back on GW2.

They could also make the "rewards" available in an alternative way. For this purpose the mentioned "points" system makes quite sense and is a good tool to organise this. Here are several options, a.o.: they can make the points purchasable in the online store ($xx for xx points), or have people earn these points (or the "rewards" that you can purchase with the points) in GW2 itself. In the latter case players who got the points as a legacy from GW1 will merely get a headstart, but no exclusive "reward" that can not be achieved in any other way but play GW1 first. To elaborate on the latter: for example one of the "rewards" could be "Rurik's Shield", a legacy item, with the points from GW1 you could unlock this right from the start with x points and after that can create and delete this item indefinitely. As an alternative it could be that somewhere much later in GW2 a side quest ("Rurik's Legacy") is offered with which you can also earn this shield, but in that case it would be a non-reproductive shield: delete it and it is gone).

And then there are hundreds of other variants of how ANet can shape the linkage and the points. Above mentioned variants are merely examples.

In any case, if they announce quite soon how the reward system will work then there will still be a rather long "cooling down" period till the release of GW2, so by the time GW2 is released the temper of those who are highly annoyed with the form of the linkage will probably have cooled down enough again to try GW2 anyway.

Gill Halendt · Sep 07, 2010, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godefridus

I see several people mentioning that those who start playing GW2 still have the opportunity to play GW1 and earn the "rewards" retroactively. Yeah sure, that's a good argument, telling people to go and play a completely different game to get something l33t in another game, doh... I don't think so. Would be nice cross marketing though (like the aion wings in GW).

Exactly.

Not to mention that filling Monuments is not something that can be done overnight, so I really don't see a problem with it anyway.

People expecting exclusive and otherwise unattainable rewards for... playing another game for years and then purchasing the sequel? How's that special?

Getting something, whatever that is, for it - call it committment or brand loyalty... - is more than enough to me... Be it a "uberl33t" item or a simple artwork gallery... I don't care if rewards are not "special", not "elite" or not "esclusive". You shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godefridus

They could also make the "rewards" available in an alternative way.

Likely not going to happen.

If there's something known about these rewards is that there won't be any other way to get them other than the HoM.

Tommy's · Sep 07, 2010, 09:06 AM // 09:06

My guess is that you will get a title, some sort of Veteran title with 5 ranks, 1 for each Monument you got filled or something.

Also you will probably get something esthetic. But no panda's running around you, no ecto's on your hands. I believe it doesnt matter with what you filled your HoM. So the esthetic reward will be something different then what you have in your HoM. Perhabs it will only be visisble in your Home Instance.

And saying you must give players someting big and great because they worked hard for it. Give me a break. Nobody told them what they could get, they all went working hard at their own risk. Now I am even using the term working hard. Didnt they like it then? That would be stupid.. I mean playing a game without liking it. Now you should be rewarded for that? Since when should stupidity get rewarded? I think its a great life lesson for them to give them a hugglebunny or a stressball in Guild Wars 2. So everytime they are working hard in guildwars 2 they got something to hug..

Iuris · Sep 07, 2010, 09:49 AM // 09:49

Quote:

Like I said a few post above, it won't.

And I say different. And I'll bet you an ecto the GW2 rewards will be approximately equivalent to GW1 /bonus weapons and divine auras and similar.

Material rewards, that is. What I expect to really be the key is the recognition of the ancestry within the personal storyline. While the queen actually recognizing you as offspring of the heroes of old would be a bit far, I think there could be family friends (and ancestral feuds) aplenty in the game.

Shadowmoon · Sep 07, 2010, 12:16 PM // 12:16

I think people are are downsizing what a "complete" HoM is, I'm pretty sure it is not 5 titles, 5 armors, 20 minis and 10 weapons. There are currently 57 title (including both hb and ca), 20 armors, 20 weapons, and over 100 minipets.
Hopefully there will be a different point system for each monument. For example
The more points in Honor, then higher tier of a stating title you get
The more points in Resilience, the better armor skinned costume you get

Mostly i'd like the rewards to be something that grow with us so even at higher lvls we can still be unique. I'd really like the ability to reskin any armor or weapon into the HoM reward skins at any point into the game.

Hyperventilate · Sep 07, 2010, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godefridus

They could also make the "rewards" available in an alternative way. For this purpose the mentioned "points" system makes quite sense and is a good tool to organise this. Here are several options, a.o.: they can make the points purchasable in the online store ($xx for xx points), or have people earn these points (or the "rewards" that you can purchase with the points) in GW2 itself. In the latter case players who got the points as a legacy from GW1 will merely get a headstart, but no exclusive "reward" that can not be achieved in any other way but play GW1 first. To elaborate on the latter: for example one of the "rewards" could be "Rurik's Shield", a legacy item, with the points from GW1 you could unlock this right from the start with x points and after that can create and delete this item indefinitely. As an alternative it could be that somewhere much later in GW2 a side quest ("Rurik's Legacy") is offered with which you can also earn this shield, but in that case it would be a non-reproductive shield: delete it and it is gone).

Selling points in the cash shop is a bad, bad, bad idea. Regardless of what the benefits are, I only see that idea going to horrible places.

The in-game earning system, I could see, however I think it is highly unlikely due to the nature of the HoM. The HoM is meant to reward loyal players for their devoted time to earning the pretty shinies in GW1. Why should someone, who never touched GW1, get all the benefits that someone slaved over in GW1? Now, I am not saying that that anyone who gets benefits from GW2 has any right to lord them over anyone else (See: They will anyway), since these benefits will just be cosmetic anyway.... I'm just saying that new players to the GW universe shouldn't be able to stroll in with just as much "fame" as the people who worked for it should.

The HoM should stay exclusive. Anything you get there should not be introduced anywhere else, or by any other manner.