Curse

**Marty Silverblade** · Oct 08, 2010, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

We do not run out of energy as if you read anything about DF is is our E-Mange

There is a difference. A Monk cannot spam 10e prots like Prot Spirit, Shield Guardian, and Spirit Bond on recharge. Ele's can do this without having to worry about energy whatsoever. A Monk must be selective.

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That is right which what you should be doing the ressing as i make a point not to put res on.

...so why did you bring up rezzing in the first place?

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it is what you should be doing the ressing and leaving us doing what we were meant to do

You seriously need to get over your stubborn outdated Monks are better mindset. It's not 2005 anymore. We've tried explaining this to you before but you refuse to see reason. A Monk cannot spam 10e prots on recharge and ~300health heals every second indefinitely. This is a fact.

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It is all we need to keep red bars up and players happy.

Fair enough, but Infuse is without a doubt significantly better.

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i think anyone can get through HM

We know. That is why HM isn't much of an indication of what is good and what isn't. However it is just a matter of looking at what is possible with an ER and you'll see a Monk simply cannot match up.

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They are to and what about SoJ and Monks are the best protection class ever.

First half: sure they are, but other professions fill key roles better. Also SoJ, whether that refers to Shield or Signet of Judgment, is horrible damage. Surely you can see this.
Second half: it's not 2005 anymore.

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I have an Ele that I don't play to much anymore since all this hostilty towards Monks and them not being in GW2 has me hating the Eles class more for taking our jops away from us.

So you refuse to admit ER's are better at Monking than Monks because you're bitter that they're losing their 'jops'? Things change, get over it, seriously.

Sirius Bsns · Oct 08, 2010, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Defense: Monks - best defensive utilities [i.e.: hex+condition removals/prots/redbarring/etc].
Offense: Warriors -damage + utility [i.e.: knockdowns/interrupts/deep wounds/high damage/etc.].

NerfHerder · Oct 08, 2010, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

So you refuse to admit ER's are better at Monking than Monks because you're bitter that they're losing their 'jops'? Things change, get over it, seriously.

They took're jyobs!

Seriously though, there is no "best class". Necros have alot of versatility due to secondary abuse via soul reaping. But there is alot they cant do as well. Assassins are better at DPS than Wars and Dervs. And they are still the staple of most SCs. But, they tend to be squishy and lack support. They can both be trouble in PvP. If I had to choose, it would be between the Necro and Sin. But, I like them all.

shoyon456 · Oct 08, 2010, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Dervish. True we are getting a class overhaul because Dervish are simply ineffective compared to critscythes and WE warriors, and various alternatives. True that Dervish nor scythes will be in GW2. True that everyone hates us and I hate you.

Still, we're just badass. Haters gonna hate. 'Nuff said.

Age · Oct 08, 2010, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

There is a difference. A Monk cannot spam 10e prots like Prot Spirit, Shield Guardian, and Spirit Bond on recharge. Ele's can do this without having to worry about energy whatsoever. A Monk must be selective.

They can to ever hear of the SB as well the 55 Monk both spam 2 10e spells

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...so why did you bring up rezzing in the first place?

It wasn't on their skill bars and Monks aren't for this

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You seriously need to get over your stubborn outdated Monks are better mindset. It's not 2005 anymore. We've tried explaining this to you before but you refuse to see reason. A Monk cannot spam 10e prots on recharge and ~300health heals every second indefinitely. This is a fact.

I will when all the Monk hate stops considering they won't be in GW2 and alll that I read on The guru 2 forums.Yes they can spam 10 e spells and they heal as well nothing an Ele can do.

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We know. That is why HM isn't much of an indication of what is good and what isn't. However it is just a matter of looking at what is possible with an ER and you'll see a Monk simply cannot match up.

They can to and I know one who can beat an Ele in any dungeon/misssion even if there is a wipe.

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First half: sure they are, but other professions fill key roles better. Also SoJ, whether that refers to Shield or Signet of Judgment, is horrible damage. Surely you can see this.

SoJ is not horrible damage

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So you refuse to admit ER's are better at Monking than Monks because you're bitter that they're losing their 'jops'? Things change, get over it, seriously.

They aren't as that is not what they were designed for if so they are horribly imbalanced and try doing this in PvP Eles won't be able to keep up to a Monk.I would like to see Er go back the way it was and btw Monk have had more nerfs and had no buffs in last 2 years.The whole protection line as had more nerfs than any with no buffs.

I am not stuck in 2005 I am defending Monks right to exist.Why don't we just get rid of Warriors Sins seem to be able to fill the role nice they can wield sword shield on top of that they have more mana.Why don't they replace the Warrior as they have decent damage.Sins can use all their attribute where as Warrior only uses 2?How would you feel if you main class was replaced in pve as well say in GW2 considering the use guns why use Warriors.Sins don't need to build up all the adrenaline since they use energy based skills.You might want to think about all of that.

JONO51 · Oct 08, 2010, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Offense - warrior
Defense - ele

ilr · Oct 08, 2010, 11:12 PM // 23:12

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Originally Posted by diabiosx

monk, they are needed everywhere and is the bread and butter of guild wars, since you need them to survive

IMO this makes any class the LEAST balanced class in the game. Requiring any class for basic survival is never an endearing quality. It's completely Artificial & forced synergy.

keithmcm · Oct 09, 2010, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Best is by it's nature a subjective question. I only PVE so I don't really have a PVP opinion (except all the JQ/FA I did to max Luxon and they are kind of a poor man's PVP). My main character is an Ele, which is a fun way to lead a team of H/Hs to me. If best means what's easy I'd say necro or the ubiqitous SOS rit build. For PVE monks are nice but a hard way to lead the AI's unless you are ROJing. And for many pve uses the necro rit works as well or better than monks on an H/H squad.
So best.... I guess what's best is whatever you think is the most fun.

**Marty Silverblade** · Oct 09, 2010, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

They can to ever hear of the SB as well the 55 Monk both spam 2 10e spells

...are you serious? How is a 55 Monk or SB Monk going to take care of the team? Pulling out random builds like that indicates nothing.

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Yes they can spam 10 e spells and they heal as well nothing an Ele can do.

Monks cannot spam 10e spells or heal as well as an ele (300+ health per second). This is a FACT. I repeat. THIS IS A FACT. You seem to have serious trouble accepting this.

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They can to and I know one who can beat an Ele in any dungeon/misssion even if there is a wipe.

See the above. A good ER will beat a good Monk in current PvE circumstances.

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SoJ is not horrible damage

lol yes. The fact you can't see this shows how bad you are at GW.

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They aren't as that is not what they were designed for if so they are horribly imbalanced and try doing this in PvP Eles won't be able to keep up to a Monk.I would like to see Er go back the way it was and btw Monk have had more nerfs and had no buffs in last 2 years.The whole protection line as had more nerfs than any with no buffs.

Everyone knows ER is a PvE build. Bringing up PvP is pointless and irrelevent. Buffs/Nerfs are also irrelevant. Oh, and yes, ER's are horribly imbalanced, but welcome to 2010, where everything meta is. I never said anything bad about Monks (barring SoJ being complete rubbish, but that's not important); a good Monk is by all means really useful. The fact is that ER is like bringing a gun to a fist fight.

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I am not stuck in 2005 I am defending Monks right to exist.

There is a difference between defending their right to exist (whatever that means) and blatantly ignoring the facts. Show me how a Monk in a standard PvE setting can produce 300+ heals every second and cover each and every party member with Prot Spirit/Spirit Bond while still being able to use other high energy spells with no regard to energy whatsoever. Until you do so all you've proved is that you are indeed stuck in 2005 and stubbornly refuse to accept that things have moved on.

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Why don't we just get rid of Warriors Sins seem to be able to fill the role nice they can wield sword shield on top of that they have more mana.Why don't they replace the Warrior as they have decent damage.Sins can use all their attribute where as Warrior only uses 2?How would you feel if you main class was replaced in pve as well say in GW2 considering the use guns why use Warriors.Sins don't need to build up all the adrenaline since they use energy based skills.You might want to think about all of that.

1) Wars aren't completely outclassed by Sins. 100B is massively powerful.
2) Attribute usage is irrelevant.
3) Wars don't spend time building adrenaline unless you're doing it wrong.

Morphy · Oct 09, 2010, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilr

IMO this makes any class the LEAST balanced class in the game. Requiring any class for basic survival is never an endearing quality. It's completely Artificial & forced synergy.

A skill/build/profession's importance/power has nothing to do with balance. What matters is how it's executed. Monks take quite a lot of skill to play (at least in PvP), so it's a good thing they're so prevalent in the game.

Age · Oct 09, 2010, 07:57 AM // 07:57

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Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

...are you serious? How is a 55 Monk or SB Monk going to take care of the team? Pulling out random builds like that indicates nothing.

I didn't say anything about a team did I

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Monks cannot spam 10e spells or heal as well as an ele (300+ health per second). This is a FACT. I repeat. THIS IS A FACT. You seem to have serious trouble accepting this.

They can to and won't accept it.

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See the above. A good ER will beat a good Monk in current PvE circumstances.

Depends on the player

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lol yes. The fact you can't see this shows how bad you are at GW.

No it isn't and I have been playing longer than you have.

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Everyone knows ER is a PvE build. Bringing up PvP is pointless and irrelevent. Buffs/Nerfs are also irrelevant. Oh, and yes, ER's are horribly imbalanced, but welcome to 2010, where everything meta is. I never said anything bad about Monks (barring SoJ being complete rubbish, but that's not important); a good Monk is by all means really useful. The fact is that ER is like bringing a gun to a fist fight.

No it is not irreverent to bring up PvP as do you don't see ER running around in tourney's do you or in RA.

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There is a difference between defending their right to exist (whatever that means) and blatantly ignoring the facts. Show me how a Monk in a standard PvE setting can produce 300+ heals every second and cover each and every party member with Prot Spirit/Spirit Bond while still being able to use other high energy spells with no regard to energy whatsoever. Until you do so all you've proved is that you are indeed stuck in 2005 and stubbornly refuse to accept that things have moved on.

They can though but you won't accept it more so.No I am not stuck in 2005.

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1) Wars aren't completely outclassed by Sins. 100B is massively powerful.
2) Attribute usage is irrelevant.
3) Wars don't spend time building adrenaline unless you're doing it wrong.

I would think they are by todays standards like you are saying Monks,attribute usage is not irrelevant.War do need to spend time building adrenal no I am not doing it wrong.

Morphy · Oct 09, 2010, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I would think they are by todays standards like you are saying Monks,attribute usage is not irrelevant.War do need to spend time building adrenal no I am not doing it wrong.

To the Limit? 100b is kind of a bad example if you ask me because you're only spiking every 30 seconds or so. It's a tank n spank build.

**Marty Silverblade** · Oct 09, 2010, 08:20 AM // 08:20

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Originally Posted by Age

I didn't say anything about a team did I

Teams are clearly the point of the discussion, given we were discussing keeping the team alive and resurrecting.

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They can to and won't accept it.

Show me a screenshot/video of your Monk producing 300+ health heals per second and still having energy to cast other big spells for an indefinite period and I'll believe you. However, given this is impossible, you are wrong. I seriously don't know why I bothered arguing with you again, you clearly have no remote idea what you're talking about.

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Depends on the player

Yes, but back to my previous analogy: ER is like bringing a gun to a fist fight. You're going to need a supernaturally powerful guy to win on the fist fight side. Unless you're comparing a really good monk to a really bad ER (which has no relevance whatsoever*) the ER should come out on top in general PvE circumstances.

*You bringing up useless irrlevant things is happening a lot in this discussion... actually, you haven't brought up anything that is particularly relevant at all.

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No it isn't and I have been playing longer than you have.

Have you seen SoJ (whichever one you're referring to) used in current PvE hero setups? What about PvP builds? Speedclears? The answer to those is no (or stop taking build advice from idiots). Hopefully that means something to you...

Also, rofl at 'I've been playing longer than you'. That is possibly the worst argument you've made so far. Even if you take my forum registration date as my GW beginning date it's definitely long enough to not classify me as a beginner.

PS: I've been playing since ~June 2005.

PSS: Using 'I've been playing longer than you' just makes you look like an immature fool who has no valid arguments whatsoever.

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No it is not irreverent to bring up PvP as do you don't see ER running around in tourney's do you or in RA.

No, but this is a PvE discussion. Anyone who runs an ER knows that it's for PvE. PvE is not a tiny niche with incredibly obscure requirements. Designing for it is completely legitimate. If we were discussing PvP, which we aren't, then ER would be useless and I would agree that Monks are better, but I repeat: this is a PvE discussion.

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They can though but you won't accept it more so.No I am not stuck in 2005.

There is nothing to say to this but you are wrong. That is a fact. If this is not obvious to you, I advise you to stop posting and showing the world you have no remote idea what you are talking about.

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I would think they are by todays standards like you are saying Monks,attribute usage is not irrelevant.

No. The difference is that Warriors (referring to 100B here) achieve the same goal (killing) but in a different way. Sins will spam DB/MS or whatever to drop single targets quickly and produce good AoE damage through DB. 100B Wars can kill a whole mob in one go with Whirlwind Attack.

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War do need to spend time building adrenal no I am not doing it wrong.

FGJ+EC=10 adr. Yes, you are doing it wrong. Building adrenaline engines is simple in PvE.

dr love · Oct 09, 2010, 08:48 AM // 08:48

sins are most fun pve because you can do some much ridiculous stuff with them using SF

and for pvp, well i'm assuming that most people are terrible at it, so then ele is the best because you can be an effective team mate with very little skill. if you're very fukin good, then prot monk, mez, ranger, warrior are all excellent choices.

Sirius Bsns · Oct 09, 2010, 10:53 AM // 10:53

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Originally Posted by shoyon456

Dervish. True we are getting a class overhaul because Dervish are simply ineffective compared to critscythes and WE warriors, and various alternatives. True that Dervish nor scythes will be in GW2. True that everyone hates us and I hate you.

Still, we're just badass. Haters gonna hate. 'Nuff said.

URBAD. Dervishes lack utility so badly... Warriors can knock down and interrupt, assassins can knock down, interrupt, deal high armor-ignoring damage, and more... What can the Dervish do that outclasses all of the above? The only thing they've got goin' for them is Wounding Strike, and that's about it. So if they have that elite Scythe Attack nerfed, they'd be in a whole world of butthurt and would become as useless as Paragons [except for Imbagons in PvE]! 'Nuff Said.

Crimson Robes · Oct 09, 2010, 11:09 AM // 11:09

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Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

No, but this is a PvE discussion.

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In your opinion, what's the best overall class in Guild Wars?
For PVE and then PVP.

Learn to read the 1st post

Morphy · Oct 09, 2010, 02:13 PM // 14:13

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Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

would become as useless as Paragons [except for Imbagons in PvE]! 'Nuff Said.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:P/any_Utility_Paragon

The hell you on bro?

MArcSinus · Oct 09, 2010, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Elementalists can heal, prot, farm, tank, nuke, support with orders + wards + conditions, speedclear, run...

We have some competition from the necro, but overall we are the best.

fireflyry · Oct 09, 2010, 04:24 PM // 16:24

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Originally Posted by bhavv

Warriors cant swap to a healing role.

That's a bad thing?

Mitigation and overall survivability my friend.DPS and healing are symbiotic.

It's all subjective but the OP needs to define best because I find it hard to see anyone taking the Warriors title of "Jack of all trades, master of none.".The class has also been a major and consistent factor in all forms of the game since it launched while other class influences on the meta seem to come and go based on the latest buff/nerf.

Outside that it's opinion, experience and situational categorisation imho.

I'm also thinking outside of a class automatically having an experienced player at the helm.

Semantics.

WAMMO FTW!!11!!

ilr · Oct 09, 2010, 05:02 PM // 17:02

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Originally Posted by Morphy

A skill/build/profession's importance/power has nothing to do with balance. What matters is how it's executed. Monks take quite a lot of skill to play (at least in PvP), so it's a good thing they're so prevalent in the game.

ROFLCOPTER

They're NOT prevalent though. The most farmed mobs in the game don't have any monks among them. Before nightfall came out, most of your time playing the game was spent waiting for a monk to show up. And the ONLY REASON monks seemed useful and required in the first place was because all the combat in the game was designed specifically around the assumption that every team had high levels of Healing or exactly 1 dedicated healer for every 3 spikers/nukers.

That's not how you design a class. You don't put 1 class into the game, and then design the Game around that 1 class. But that's what Anet did with Monks b/c it originally started out 100% as a PvP game that had PvE tacked onto. And Now that GW2 is coming out with that whole paradigm flipped on it's head and making huge news b/c of it, it's really really really .... really .... really .... reeeeeaaaaallllly hard to argue for those old crutches that have also been being slowly removed from GW1 (Spirits Summons & AotL buffs = better meatshields, Mesmer control buffs like Panic replacing reactive Mitigation entirely, Tactics got buffed liek whoah, & Dervishes up next for rebalancing)