Curse

Lanier · Nov 13, 2010, 09:22 PM // 21:22

I agree that skills shouldnt be nerfed in PvE (or PvP) if they arn't overpowered in those formats. There is simply no reason for it. While the PvE MoI nerf isnt a big deal at all, it is just another example of a PvP change that shouldnt be affecting PvE at all. Remember the Mesmer PvE update in May? There were several skills that were buffed there in order to improve the mesmer's position in PvE. However, in the process, a lot of skill splits did not occur, thus leading to an unnecessary buff of the mesmer's energy denial ability in PvE. If a skill is overpowered or underpowered in one format but not in another, then only fix it in that one format, and leave it like it is in the other.

Sirius Bsns · Nov 13, 2010, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by kupp

Sad by seeing Coward! take a hit. Recently became my favourite low-end pvp playtoy, it's not too bad of a nerf but it makes the job A LOT more difficult to keep someone knock-locked since by the time the skill becomes active, the enemy is already beginning to run and denies us the short adrenaline build-up moment.

And to think it was a nerf induced by assassin [ab]usage, not the warrior... If Anet actually read our forums somewhat, they might be able to have fixed it in such a way that warriors still have the upper hand at it, like so:

"Coward!" Elite Shout. Causes knock-down if target foe is moving. *Disables all Non Warrior and Non Adrenaline attack skills for 10 seconds.*

kupp · Nov 13, 2010, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Kinda funny when sins can still teleport in, 1-2-3-4-5 spam the target and keep it knock-locked and dead in 5 seconds or so.

Assassins, they really are the cancer of this game.

Killed u man · Nov 13, 2010, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by kupp

Sad by seeing Coward! take a hit. Recently became my favourite low-end pvp playtoy, it's not too bad of a nerf but it makes the job A LOT more difficult to keep someone knock-locked since by the time the skill becomes active, the enemy is already beginning to run and denies us the short adrenaline build-up moment.

That was the point...

Elnino · Nov 13, 2010, 09:49 PM // 21:49

I fail to see how the change to MoI is affecting PvE negatively. This change is only making the skill more like an attunement. It does not hurt the game play in PvE anyway whatsoever. No one even uses. Crying about a nerf to a skill no one in their right mind would use (in PvE) is just silly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

That will be fun until you get it stripped outright. Enjoy your 45 second wait for mediocrity.

Ever heard of a 40/40 set or a 20% enchant weapon or a cover enchantment?

Quote:

I know this all seems pointless, but if it was a skill more people used, there would be rage. A bad nerf is a bad nerf, and I think they made a mistake.

But no one uses this skill, so it doesn't matter.

kupp · Nov 13, 2010, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

That was the point...

There's a pretty long list of overpowered stuff that goes before coward, wich isn't overpowered anyway. Annoying maybe, definitely not overpowered.

Lanier · Nov 13, 2010, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elnino

I fail to see how the change to MoI is affecting PvE negatively. This change is only making the skill more like an attunement. It does not hurt the game play in PvE anyway whatsoever. No one even uses. Crying about a nerf to a skill no one in their right mind would use (in PvE) is just silly.

First, I dont believe anyone here is crying about it.

Second, I acknowledged that the nerf to MoI isnt even much of a nerf at all. It doesnt even really matter. The reason why I dont like it is because im afraid that the practice of nerfing/buffing skills in one format because of issues in the other format is a slippery slope. Next time, the nerf could actually be a bigger deal in PvE. Also, saying that a skill shouldnt be split because it isnt meta is silly. A large portion of the PvE players dont necessarily use meta builds.

Shayne Hawke · Nov 13, 2010, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Second, I acknowledged that the nerf to MoI isnt even much of a nerf at all. It doesnt even really matter. The reason why I dont like it is because im afraid that the practice of nerfing/buffing skills in one format because of issues in the other format is a slippery slope. Next time, the nerf could actually be a bigger deal in PvE. Also, saying that a skill shouldnt be split because it isnt meta is silly. A large portion of the PvE players dont necessarily use meta builds.

Welcome to... gosh, however many years ago it was.

My understanding is that there is a limit as to how many skills can exist in the game. If skills do not absolutely have to be split, they shouldn't be. Was the nerf to MoI going to break PvE? Hardly. A split would be pointless.

Sirius Bsns · Nov 13, 2010, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by kupp

Kinda funny when sins can still teleport in, 1-2-3-4-5 spam the target and keep it knock-locked and dead in 5 seconds or so.

Assassins, they really are the cancer of this game.

Wow, all teleports have a huge aftercast delay. Also, blind, S.Bash, Bonetti's, Disciplined, F*** IT! Lame your way with him and just B.Surge/B.Flash his ass! How the f*** can you possibly have a problem with assassins when you have all the above at your disposal?! You, dear sir, are just not doing it right!

Meridon · Nov 13, 2010, 11:02 PM // 23:02

In PvE, skills that see frequent play should be nerfed. Skills that see no play shouldn't be nerfed.

As a result of the current way Anet handles skill splits, the opposite is happening. This only pushes regular bars into a relatively higher state of overpoweredness and kills the general balance in the long term.

Yes, the current skill splitting attitude is breaking PvE.

Lanier · Nov 13, 2010, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

My understanding is that there is a limit as to how many skills can exist in the game. If skills do not absolutely have to be split, they shouldn't be. Was the nerf to MoI going to break PvE? Hardly. A split would be pointless.

I already said that the nerf to MoI wasnt a big deal.

If this is true, then sure, I understand what you mean. I don't see why there would be a limit... but then again I dont know that much about the inner workings of the game.

Shadowspawn X · Nov 13, 2010, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadS

All I hear is bitching about everything. They are giving you guys updates, whether it's not what you expected, it's an update. You'll get your big update in time. Chill out, Jesus.

It's damned if they do, damned if they don't.

It's not too much to ask for some basic intelligence in a skill update. Who ever did this crap was so far removed from the game they had no clue.

drkn · Nov 13, 2010, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

My understanding is that there is a limit as to how many skills can exist in the game.

Why is that? Are there any technical downsides of having too many skills in game? Are the databases getting more likely corrupted, lag is generated, the servers generate errors?
If not, there's no reason not to split skills if you intend to alter only one side of the game.

MisterB · Nov 14, 2010, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Mirror of Ice nerf in PvE reminds me of the Quickshot PvE nerf. So another useless skill is now slightly less useful, which would (maybe) be an issue if it was of any use to begin with.

They still haven't fixed the ignores armor cold damage, or is that intentional?

edit: I don't like Enraging Charge's description, purely because of the phrase "strike a target." Just say hit, please.

Cuilan · Nov 14, 2010, 12:29 AM // 00:29

They kept Empathy, Gaze of Fury, and other skills well suited for PvE. I see no problems and Healing Burst may not be perfect, but it's nice and will hopefully give PvE monks more diversity. Mirror of Ice was already really poor in PvE so this update hardly makes it worse.

Kaida the Heartless · Nov 14, 2010, 04:04 AM // 04:04

To whomever said Scribe's Insight + Barbed Signet sucks, Mantra of Recall during the Boonprot era provided about 2 pips of energy. Inspired Hex was the other Energy Skill that was run, and that provided ~4 energy every 20 seconds, or 2/3 of a single pip. Scribes + Barbed provides more energy, while MoR + IR provided a Hex Removal every 20 seconds.

Just shows how closed minded and uninformed much of the player base is.

Xiaquin · Nov 14, 2010, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

My understanding is that there is a limit as to how many skills can exist in the game. If skills do not absolutely have to be split, they shouldn't be. Was the nerf to MoI going to break PvE? Hardly. A split would be pointless.

I've never heard of this limit, but if true, that would be a road block. However, I whole-heartedly disagree about the split being pointless. PvP fixes should not change PvE and vice-versa. That really would be sad if they physically can't make changes that are necessary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

Mirror of Ice nerf in PvE reminds me of the Quickshot PvE nerf. So another useless skill is now slightly less useful, which would (maybe) be an issue if it was of any use to begin with.

My thoughts exactly. I'm not defending MoI as a good skill, but I don't subscribe to the mentality that it's ok to screw skills over as long as they're unpopular, especially when the PvE profession(s) in question are desperately looking for buffs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elnino

/snip

See above.

FoxBat · Nov 14, 2010, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

To whomever said Scribe's Insight + Barbed Signet sucks, Mantra of Recall during the Boonprot era provided about 2 pips of energy. Inspired Hex was the other Energy Skill that was run, and that provided ~4 energy every 20 seconds, or 2/3 of a single pip. Scribes + Barbed provides more energy, while MoR + IR provided a Hex Removal every 20 seconds.

Current OoB provides better energy return than scribes, even covering the health sac, plus less fragile and only one skill slot. 7 second guardian or whatever from the att spec is not worth a full pip of energy and another skill slot. And while the OoB can farm you glads, it still isn't remotely competitive.

In short it's called power creep. We did not have old LoD or the current WoH in boonprot days, nor the absurd damage nightfall brought to the table. Plus boon's healing level still isn't what it used to be, especially with swappable 16 DF headpiece.

Kaida the Heartless · Nov 14, 2010, 06:01 AM // 06:01

FoxBat: True, however the Scribes Monk is still specced entirely into Monk attributes, requiring no spread. This synergizes further with Divine Favor's innate energy engine, and Divine Boon itself. This also allows a heavy investment into Prot or even a strong split into Healing as well (Gift of Health is still nice). Optimal, probably not. But the Monk was clearly doing something right when every single spike for 3 matches straight failed miserably (this could be a rank issue as well, as I don't recall the differences).

About the Heal Party change:
Try pushing into the enemy instead of the altar. There are more ways to influence a battle than humping the Ghostly Hero. And Hall of Heroes is 1v1v1 for a reason. If the holding team is able to fight off 16 players, they deserve it.

All I'm trying to say is that people get stuck into a mindset that nothing can be done when something is removed/changed in the game, and this is completely false. People get stuck in thier ways and refuse to adapt, so they complain on the forums. Not to be "that guy", but if you want to see stupid game changes, go play WoW.

Felix Infelicium · Nov 14, 2010, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by kupp

Sad by seeing Coward! take a hit. Recently became my favourite low-end pvp playtoy, it's not too bad of a nerf but it makes the job A LOT more difficult to keep someone knock-locked since by the time the skill becomes active, the enemy is already beginning to run and denies us the short adrenaline build-up moment.

Either you're trolling or you're oblivious to the fact that knock lock is a silly and imbalanced mechanic in a game like GW.