Curse

Crimson Robes · Nov 22, 2010, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verene

...you can't just say that they don't care and aren't supporting the game and have abandoned it because you personally do not like the stuff they have added. It's content that exists, there's no two ways to argue about it, and just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can pretend it doesn't exist and whine that there's nothing new being done.

Content added purely for an excuse to add yet another 3 sets of costumes to the store. Bugfixes or skillchanges? Nope. And no, what they released a few days back was hardly skill changes.

TL;DR i dont give 2 cents about 3 crappy new quests which you do twice and are done with. Id rather have them keep the game fresh and enjoyable. (skill updates, bug fixes, etc)

RedStar · Nov 22, 2010, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Why not releasing some paid mini-content? like the bonus mission pack. When it comes to costumes, its a quick way to make money, but not everyone likes'em. But everyone likes more content and/or lore.

Just no.
You didn't buy the BMP, you got it by buying something in their store. And the timing was perfect since it was when GW:EN came out.

But if they start to charge us for an update (even if optional) then they would have to stop calling that a F2P game.

Costumes are purely aesthetic, you miss absolutely nothing by not buying them.

Quote:

TL;DR i dont give 2 cents about 3 crappy new quests which you do twice and are done with. Id rather have them keep the game fresh and enjoyable. (skill updates, bug fixes, etc)

Even a boatload of botox wouldn't make this game look like it was new, because it's not.
Whatever they do people will always complain. Once they did an update where they only fixed a few bugs, well people complained about that. Not everyone can be happy.

But saying that they are not updating is a lie. (Maybe the aren't doing an update every weeks, but what do you want, dartboard skill updates ? that will just create a mass of QQ'ing everywhere because X monster got overpowered, Y build got OP'd, Z build got nerfed and then 2 weeks later, everything changes again).

Adul · Nov 22, 2010, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedStar

Just no.
You didn't buy the BMP, you got it by buying something in their store. And the timing was perfect since it was when GW:EN came out.

But if they start to charge us for an update (even if optional) then they would have to stop calling that a F2P game.

You did pay for Prophecies, Factions, Nightfall, and Eye of the North, did you not? How is paying for the BMP any different? The BMP did have new areas, character art, and even voice acting while GW:B content seems to have a shortage of all of those elements. I personally have nothing against new quality content that costs money.

Skyy High · Nov 22, 2010, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyperventilate

I mean, GW2 is probably all about done just fleshing it out and polishing up the pretty parts, prolly don't need the massive manpower anymore.

....wait, were you serious?

Morphy · Nov 22, 2010, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

(Maybe the aren't doing an update every weeks, but what do you want, dartboard skill updates ? that will just create a mass of QQ'ing everywhere because X monster got overpowered, Y build got OP'd, Z build got nerfed and then 2 weeks later, everything changes again).

The buff everything updates were pretty dartboard, presumably took a long time to make and have been causing problems for ages now. We're getting the worst of two worlds.

Lanier · Nov 22, 2010, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedStar

Even a boatload of botox wouldn't make this game look like it was new, because it's not.
Whatever they do people will always complain. Once they did an update where they only fixed a few bugs, well people complained about that. Not everyone can be happy.

But saying that they are not updating is a lie. (Maybe the aren't doing an update every weeks, but what do you want, dartboard skill updates ? that will just create a mass of QQ'ing everywhere because X monster got overpowered, Y build got OP'd, Z build got nerfed and then 2 weeks later, everything changes again).

What are you talking about? Myself and many others that I know ingame agree that skill updates make the game feel fresher. Adding new content... well adds new content, but having frequent skill updates makes the content that is already in the game fresher and more replayable.

No one has asked for a skill update every week, so dont exaggerate. We'd like them monthly, like they used to do before everyone was taken over to GW2's team. As for your second point, im sure that there will be more QQing about us not getting updates at all.

I think that the way anet updated the mesmer skills in May worked out really well (for PvE). They didnt overpower skills to the level of the obviously OP skills like SoS and AP, but they did enough changes to make a bunch of different mesmer builds equally viable, which is how all professions should be. My only suggestion for skill updates (in addition to having more frequent ones, which is a matter of moving more people to GW1's team) is that they mix the updates up and change some skills for all professions rather than just focusing on a ton of skills from one profession. For example, rather than seeing anet focus just on the dervishes in the next update, and then paragons in the next, I would rather them update some dervish skills and some paragon skills. If I were to compare (with percents) the number of skills updated in the upcoming skill update for each profession, a split of 35% dervish, 35% paragon, and then 30% the rest of the professions would be nice. This would give dervs and paragons some new toys to play with (which they desperately need) but would also give those who play other professions something new to be excited about.

Milennin · Nov 22, 2010, 09:35 PM // 21:35

The only thing I care for is that we're getting full Hero parties as soon as possible. We're not playing subscriptions, so I'm not going to expect or demand any updates. And any we do get, I'll be happy with.

drkn · Nov 22, 2010, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Quote:

Whatever they do people will always complain. Once they did an update where they only fixed a few bugs, well people complained about that. Not everyone can be happy.

I agree that not everyone can be happy. Yet more frequent updates, even missed and dartboard ones (but then fixed, or even reverted, in a follow-up after a few days), would at least bring a fresh breeze.
It feels like the Live Team or TK is somewhat afraid of doing updates because a) 'more testing has to be done'; and b) 'people will complain anyway, so why bother'. Whining because of a failed/small update is generally better for the playerbase and the game than whining of no updates at all (or updating n-teen skills after half a year).
I'm aware that ANet prefers not to tell anything unless it's almost ready, mostly tested, thought-through, etc etc. Yet i'm pretty sure that any info from Regina, even something like 'hey guys, 15 dervish skills are ready, we're working on 8~13 more skills before the update hits; we can't give any date yet, but stay tuned, it's coming!' would cut the whining down a lot. The players don't expect detailed notes, but ten short messages are better than one big prelim note for a week before the update itself.
I know that the players should be happy with what they get - and a big part of the playerbase is satisfied with the updates that come, just not their frequency / focus / general communication. Apart of a bunch of people who whine just to whine and criticise everything, just because they like to, i rather see those whinings as a rough sign that the players still care about Guild Wars 1. They enjoy it. They still want to play it, despite the game being over five years old. Most people talking about how HA is being neglected, how certain professions need some love, how gimmicks and SCs break the game - they do it because they like GW and, well, whining on the forums is all they can do, hoping their voice will be heard.
I understand why there's no list of people that form TK, but keeping this group so secret serves nothing either. I believe someone of the TK once said they never take opinions of the general playerbase into account when balancing and testing skills, so their own competence isn't affected - staying deaf on people pointing out what's wrong and sharing suggestions ain't the best way to go. More communication between TK and the playerbase might be enough to fix some part of the problem - again, i don't expect members of TK leaking out specific information, just some official statement 'we're halfway through the derv update and it's going to be nice' would be okay.

Main problems: lack of communication (though it's much better than two years ago), belief that the players expect detailed info and sharing something is pointless, not doing small updates (or doing small updates after months of silence...) but big ones and focused on only one aspect & small Live Team (and, mainly due to the sheer amount of testing that every update needs, seems like a small TK).

RedStar · Nov 22, 2010, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

You did pay for Prophecies, Factions, Nightfall, and Eye of the North, did you not? How is paying for the BMP any different?

I didn't really pay for the BMP since I bought GW:EN in the online store.

$50 = a campaign, missions, quests, skills, lore, scenery.
$10 to add 5 new quests = transforming GW in a form of P2P.

I never said that skill updates were bad. I said that rushing a skill update can be bad.
Nor did I said "a skill update every week". Skills aren't the only thing that are in an update.
And that's what some don't realize, they say "I want updates like during the first years"...most of them were bugs fixing and AI updates. Then with new content they had to fix more bugs, the AI and change how some skills worked.
Now with almost nothing too big being added it's almost normal that updates aren't happening at the same frequency as before. Sure some bugs still exists (FA and JQ for example) but most of them are not things that require too much attention. Updating skills will also be nice, but like I said, it takes them time (although the fact that an update that was announced four months ago isn't still here, bothers me a tiny bit (tiny bit since I don't really play a dervish), just want to see the changes it will bring to PvP).

Quote:

They didnt overpower skills to the level of the obviously OP skills like SoS and AP

Hmm well I find Panic to be more useful than SoS.

Quote:

The players don't expect detailed notes, but ten short messages are better than one big prelim note for a week before the update itself.

I wouldn't be so sure.
Curiosity and hope are kind of worse : you answer their curiosity, so they think they can get more. Then with the little bit you gave, everyone starts interpreting it, everyone starts to have different expectation. And what's the result : thread complaining that the update isn't coming fast enough (already happening) and once the updates goes live, thread complaining that ANet lied because they were expecting something else.
ANet wants to be able to modify something at the last minute without having the "people expected that but he have to change it" pressure.

Quote:

staying deaf on people pointing out what's wrong and sharing suggestions ain't the best way to go. More communication between TK and the playerbase might be enough to fix some part of the problem

That's because ANet has no official forum, so who to listen to ?
The people of guru ? We are like what ? Around 5000 posting around here (pretty sure it's less but let's stay "positive"). We clearly do not represent the majority of the player base.
Imagine a group of Ursan lover starts a thread with 500 different people posting, saying that Ursan is great, that Dervishes are OP'd and that Mesmers should wield swords. Should ANet listen to them ?

The Test Krewe is there to play the role of the players.

Mad Queen Malafide · Nov 23, 2010, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

I believe someone of the TK once said they never take opinions of the general playerbase into account when balancing and testing skills, so their own competence isn't affected - staying deaf on people pointing out what's wrong and sharing suggestions ain't the best way to go. More communication between TK and the playerbase might be enough to fix some part of the problem - again, i don't expect members of TK leaking out specific information, just some official statement 'we're halfway through the derv update and it's going to be nice' would be okay.

I don't know who your sources are, but you'd better find new ones. The Test Krewe was picked from players who represent the PVP and PVE side of the GW player base. As such, I'm 100% sure that they pay a lot of attention to the opinion of the players, and not just the numbers. Just because the Test Krewe members aren't screaming and bragging on the forums that they are members, doesn't mean they are hiding. I'm pretty sure the Test Krewe is just there to provide feedback, voice your opinions and worries to the developers, and not to provide update info or anything like that. There's a lot more communication between the Test Krewe and the playerbase than you think.

Ghull Ka · Nov 23, 2010, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedStar

I didn't really pay for the BMP since I bought GW:EN in the online store.

$50 = a campaign, missions, quests, skills, lore, scenery.
$10 to add 5 new quests = transforming GW in a form of P2P.

You're most definitely entitled to your own opinon, and I will respect it, but... I can't see it the way you do. The $10 is much more than "5 new quests" IMHO, and the optional content it delivers (i haven't ever seen any of it) is a far cry from "transforming GW in a form of P2P."

RedStar · Nov 23, 2010, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Remember that ANet said they won't make any more add-on for GW like Factions and NF (aka no more campaign + mission + quest + skill + scenery for $50).

So now, how do you call a game, that sells updates ? Sure it's not a P2P, since no one is forcing you to buy those, but it's still "important" content.
(Costumes and Xunlai panes are in no way "important" content, it's almost useless. Don't come saying that quests can be considered "unimportant" as it's one of the thing that compose a game...if you don't play it for the quests/events/missions in the first place, why do you play it ?).

And seeing the prices in the in-game store, it's more likely that it will cost more than $10.

agrios · Nov 24, 2010, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedStar

Just no.
You didn't buy the BMP, you got it by buying something in their store. And the timing was perfect since it was when GW:EN came out.

Yes I did. On the day it was released.

RedStar · Nov 25, 2010, 05:31 PM // 17:31

The BMP was first something you couldn't buy directly and for a limited amount of time. Then people who missed the promotion started to want it, so they made it available in the in-game store.

When I referred to it, I was talking about how you got it when it got released (just like people who bought every game as soon as they were released paid ~$150 although today you can buy all those things for more than half the price).

dancing gnome · Nov 29, 2010, 10:58 AM // 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedStar

The BMP was first something you couldn't buy directly and for a limited amount of time. Then people who missed the promotion started to want it, so they made it available in the in-game store.

When I referred to it, I was talking about how you got it when it got released (just like people who bought every game as soon as they were released paid ~$150 although today you can buy all those things for more than half the price).

Make no mistake, the ArenaNet marketing department always intended for the BMP to be sold in the online store. They didn't "have a change of heart" later on based on player requests. They deliberately gave players the impression it would be a limited time only bonus content that they could only obtain via large financial purchases in the online store (coincidentally the price of Eye of the North which was released shortly after the promotion began). It was all a dirty online marketing gimmick to shoe horn honest consumers into choosing between a guaranteed way to access content for a game they loved at the cost of losing the ability to choose where to spend their money (this was especially bad for Australians who paid in british pounds at the recommended retail price which was around $40-50 Australian vs the $25 Australian EotN cost in stores here). The other option was to not spend in the online store and risk missing out on seeing Saul's, Gwen's, Togo's and Turai's stories because they were asked and refused to answer whether or not the BMP would be sold later on even though it is clear they always planned to do it.

If there is one trend ArenaNet has established since EotN's release it's that players will get ripped off left right and centre when purchasing content from the online store. Costumes are overpriced (compare the dollar value of a costume to the dollar value of a full campaign or expansion - this standard is kept by most honest gaming companies in the industry). Regardless of whether it's optional or not doesn't change the fact that it's a rip off. Online store content has become more and more prominent in ArenaNet's business model and it's clear so far they have no problems exploiting their players to turn a quick buck by overcharging for costumes and transmutation stones or whatever else they shovel out are looking to be far worse - would you pay real world cash to move insignias from armour onto another armour?

PS Malifade: you're posting technique in dealing with people you disagree with is trolling 101. Half the time you're attacking their point of view instead of contributing to their discussion.

PPS A final food for though for people who seem to love the costume model. If you bought Halloween costumes, Wedding costumes and plan on buying the Wintersday costumes you will have spent the same amount of money as you would with a monthly subscription to WoW (if you lived in Australia you would have spent more). I guarantee the amount of content and game support the game got is incomparable to the kind that is given to WoW. For people who do purchase this content, they are getting ripped off royally. The prices need to come down if they continue to fork them out like they have been doing. You are paying a monthly fee in different packaging, don't let them fool you into thinking otherwise.

ogre_jd · Nov 29, 2010, 03:35 PM // 15:35

/me tosses a pointy tinfoil hat to the dancing gnome.

If you think GW's completely and utterly optional microtransactions are overpriced, you should go visit other games with cash shops (most of which are not optional if you don't want to be left behind to advance at a snail's pace compared to those who pay and which generally offer things that you get only one, or a stack, of and that are bound to a single character rather than an account).

insanethemadone · Nov 29, 2010, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Could we buy a decent skill update twice a year ? I would gladly pay for that not the damn costumes.

SpyderArachnid · Nov 29, 2010, 04:09 PM // 16:09

I really don't understand the human race......

Here you guys are, getting stuff for free, and yet you still complain about it. This game is over five years old, and yet Anet is working to make it new and fresh with all the content they keep adding to it. And best of all, they are not charging you for any of the new content unlike some "other" company that is forcing you to pay every month. That's like visiting a free sample booth in a grocery store and then yelling at the person cause it isn't the free sample you want. Seriously, be happy with what you get and appreciate the fact that Anet is still working to give you a great game for free.

And saying a skill update is better than new content and keeps the game fresh? How does a skill update keep the game new and fresh? You are still playing through the same ol' content over and over again, with slightly tweaked skills. That doesn't make the game new and fresh. It is still the same game. New content on the other hand, brings something new. That is what keeps a game still new and fresh. New content, not tiny barely recognizable skill updates. All a skill update does is overpower this skill, make this profession overpowered, nerf this skill, and completely change this skill.

And instead of complaining about micro-transactions and saying they are a rip-off, just don't buy them then. Simple enough, solves the problem. People that do buy those, buy them cause they want to. It doesn't affect your game in any way and doesn't give them an advantage over you, so why complain about something that has no affect on your gaming experience? And seriously Dancing Gnome? It's like a Monthly Fee? You do realize it is completely optional to buy from the store right? You are not forced to buy these items to where it seems like you are paying a monthly fee. If people want to spend the money on costumes and such, let them. It is what they want to do with their money. That's like saying I shouldn't go shop at a certain store every month cause now I am basically on a payment plan with them and am forced to go there now and buy something.

tl:dr:? Learn to be happy with what you get for free. There is nothing in the cash shop that you are forced to buy to be better than anyone. Anet is offering you all this new content with no strings attached, and all you can do is complain and whine about it. The game is over five years old. Be happy they are still doing what they can to make it still seem new.

Quote:

Originally Posted by insanethemadone

Could we buy a decent skill update twice a year ? I would gladly pay for that not the damn costumes.

You're kidding right?

Umm let's see. Within this past year we have had a skill update basically every single month.

insanethemadone · Nov 29, 2010, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpyderArachnid

You're kidding right?

Umm let's see. Within this past year we have had a skill update basically every single month.

Last decent one was in May ..... 1-10 skill changes in pvp ,not a decent skill update is it ?

*lemming* · Nov 29, 2010, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpyderArachnid

Umm let's see. Within this past year we have had a skill update basically every single month.

There's been far less than that, and only one of them (November 2010) was what anyone qualified would consider decent.