Curse

Arutima · Dec 04, 2010, 11:38 PM // 23:38

well, i did my legendary vanquisher title wit ha healer hero, and i am not dead. Splinter weapon , asuran scan, "i am the strongest" makes a third damage hero obsolete , when your arrows hit hm lvl 28 + creatures for over 160 dmg

Dark-NighT · Dec 04, 2010, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Anyone that thinks 7 hero teams are better for the UW (or anywhere there is splitting) is delusional. I did a full UW clear with 6 heroes the other day (borrowed , mediocre heroes) but I didn't do any quests because they require defending NPCs. You don't have PVE skills and you will need to pop your own cons if your build requires cons. Heroes stand in AOE unless you flag them and you can't flag them off the radar (to go do a quest for you, grab griffons in FOW, etc.). DoA is more flexible with this and you can see that in the builds (DwG and frostway PUG crap). 7 Hero teams will just be a bad version of 2 people + 6 heroes.

Maybe 7 heroes for Vanquishes, missions, and quests but not for UW. It's hard to get people to vanquish with you to begin with and trying to get people to quest is like pulling teeth since the rewards are generally so low.

Also melee AI still sucks and you don't get AoHM (broken PVE scythes) or Vanguard sins.

Well Uw is indeed impossible with heroes, but Doa is possible with 7 heroes and Fow is a walkover with 7 heroes in the party, sure it will never be as fast as SC teams that can split up and do seperate quests, but it does give the option to go alone and do it, great for us pug hating people and a nice change of pace everynow and then.

LifeInfusion · Dec 05, 2010, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Presler

Well Uw is indeed impossible with heroes, but Doa is possible with 7 heroes and Fow is a walkover with 7 heroes in the party, sure it will never be as fast as SC teams that can split up and do seperate quests, but it does give the option to go alone and do it, great for us pug hating people and a nice change of pace everynow and then.

Fastest I did FoW with heroes not in SC was about 1:30 with cons in HM. The builds were far from optimal and nothing was runed I think. I don't know if that's good, but I think 20-40 minutes with a FOWSC even with a few fails in between is faster. FoW is pretty lenient.

DoA I did with 6 heroes + a friend. We didn't do a full clear, just a zone by zone in normal mode. I've monked a few full runs with people, but DoA is exceedingly boring.

Dark-NighT · Dec 05, 2010, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Fastest I did FoW with heroes not in SC was about 1:30 with cons in HM. The builds were far from optimal and nothing was runed I think. I don't know if that's good, but I think 20-40 minutes with a FOWSC even with a few fails in between is faster. FoW is pretty lenient.

DoA I did with 6 heroes + a friend. We didn't do a full clear, just a zone by zone in normal mode. I've monked a few full runs with people, but DoA is exceedingly boring.

The last time i did fow with 6 heroes 2 players has been a while, i dont recall how long it took us. I have done a couple of doa runs with a friend and 6 heroes, a full run with full consets took us about 2 hours 14 minutes on average on nm. I think doa is pretty awesome, the most boring part has to be city of torqua, but stygian veil, foundry and ravenheart are pretty good, the latter being so quick it hardly makes an impact on completion time.

BUT here is the catch for me anyway, with the current setup i have to wait for friends, who dont play that often anymore in order to do it, atleast with 7 heroes i wont have to wait, but lacking 1 player with pve skills is an impact on team performance, and since the ai cant handle DWG that well its even worse for my doa run, but i will think of something to make it work.

FoxBat · Dec 05, 2010, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Presler

Well Uw is indeed impossible with heroes

As long as you run an ER bonder or permatank or something, it's not too bad.

dancing gnome · Dec 05, 2010, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Presler

Well Uw is indeed impossible with heroes, but Doa is possible with 7 heroes and Fow is a walkover with 7 heroes in the party, sure it will never be as fast as SC teams that can split up and do seperate quests, but it does give the option to go alone and do it, great for us pug hating people and a nice change of pace everynow and then.

UW is not impossible with 7 heroes. I did it with a friend and 6 heroes and we steam-rolled everything until the four horsemen where we wiped (we weren't prepared to split or tank the dryders and the reaper got killed). Neither of us had incredible builds and we had a balanced hero party with no consumables, no discord or any garbage like that (we had a WoH Tahlkora and Xandra running restoration). If you went in prepared for that quest then there is no doubt you can do UW with 7 heroes.

People only think it would be impossible because end game grouping in GW has been a joke for the longest time - splitting or having invincible characters is nothing like a balanced game is supposed to be. The game balance failed and favoured gimmick niche builds which completed content at speeds faster than they should be completed in instead of requiring/favouring a balanced party with a mixture of classes (ironically what a lot of people will use their 7 hero parties for).

It took about 2 hours but that was the poor design decision made for UW: an area that should take about 2 hours (apparently someone thinks that's a reasonable amount of time to spend in front of a computer non-stop).

MithranArkanere · Dec 05, 2010, 02:24 PM // 14:24

I've seen 2..4 three people doing it with 4..6 heroes.

Disable the Encase Skeletal skill, and they'll be better than the average player on fighting Dhuum, since they'll use all the other skills properly target the same skeleton, so you can spike them and kill them faster one by one.

ogre_jd · Dec 05, 2010, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancing gnome

It took about 2 hours but that was the poor design decision made for UW: an area that should take about 2 hours (apparently someone thinks that's a reasonable amount of time to spend in front of a computer non-stop).

Most MMORPGs do consider that reasonable for endgame areas/raids. Actually, most'd probably consider 2 hours for such things to be casual endgame content. Some WoW raids can take 5-6 hours (or at least the old ones; I think WotLK raids top out at 3-4) and some City of Heroes Task/Strike Forces can take more than 4 hours to do, even with a decent group, for example.

Halfthought · Dec 05, 2010, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

It's a change in Live Team leads. The old lead personally didn't want 7 hero parties, the new lead did a survey and found out the vast majority of players disagree with the old Live Team lead.

Oh well jee, I guess we should just get rid all that overhead costs those silly studios spend on designers by firing them all and just set up polls to decide everything.

Players don't always know what they want. I guarantee if a player poll was set up "Do you want FoW armor", 80% of people would vote yes. But you can't seriously that the best design decision would be to then reduce the cost of FoW armor to 1k and 2 planks of wood and make it available in Kamadan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancing gnome

It took about 2 hours but that was the poor design decision made for UW: an area that should take about 2 hours (apparently someone thinks that's a reasonable amount of time to spend in front of a computer non-stop).

You've never watched movie at home?

lol.

Life Bringing · Dec 05, 2010, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Doing uw with 2 players, 6 heroes is a hell of a lot different than 1 player 7 heroes. With 2 players, you can actually split effectively. You cant really do that when you're the only player

Horus Moonlight · Dec 05, 2010, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfthought

Oh well jee, I guess we should just get rid all that overhead costs those silly studios spend on designers by firing them all and just set up polls to decide everything.

Players don't always know what they want. I guarantee if a player poll was set up "Do you want FoW armor", 80% of people would vote yes. But you can't seriously that the best design decision would be to then reduce the cost of FoW armor to 1k and 2 planks of wood and make it available in Kamadan.

Ad absurdum doesn't work here. 7 heroes is within reason based on arguments that have been reiterated over and over. Giving away prestige armour for mere change isn't.

Halfthought · Dec 06, 2010, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horus Moonlight

Ad absurdum doesn't work here. 7 heroes is within reason based on arguments that have been reiterated over and over. Giving away prestige armour for mere change isn't.

Yes, based on logic, arguments, etc, not poll data. Your post really is entirely irrelevant.

Horus Moonlight · Dec 06, 2010, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfthought

Yes, based on logic, arguments, etc, not poll data. Your post really is entirely irrelevant.

You missed the point entirely. Sadly, I couldn't make it any simpler.

FoxBat · Dec 06, 2010, 01:35 AM // 01:35

He used the poll to justify something he was thinking of doing anyway. Anet has stated it's just one type of data they use when making decisions. (but it is ONE type - I.E. it does matter.)

Scary · Dec 06, 2010, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by vader

This was exactly my question. Early next year means nothing because for anet it could possibly mean June.

Hope you are all wrong about that, and that we all being wrongly pessimistic

FyrFytr998 · Dec 06, 2010, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scary

Hope you are all wrong about that, and that we all being wrongly pessimistic

Lol, you new or something? If ANET had the ability to keep up with their projected release dates, our skill updates would come like clockwork and we'd all be playing GW2 right this instant.

I've learned that with GW, it's best to just go about your business and be pleasantly surprised one day when you log on.

Killed u man · Dec 06, 2010, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

Doing uw with 2 players, 6 heroes is a hell of a lot different than 1 player 7 heroes. With 2 players, you can actually split effectively. You cant really do that when you're the only player

You don't need to split. I love that once a guide somewhere on PvX, wiki or guru says you have to play this way people really do believe you have to play this way or you die and burn in hell for eternal damnation!

Splitting the 4 horsemen quest was something implemented when the game was young, and there weren't any means of dealing with so much damage because the skills they posses were pretty much as strong back then as they are now.
However, nowadays ER bonders (again), TNTF, SY, Spirit Bond, ST, Panic (and the list goes on) splitting is definatly not needed anymore for the four horsemen quest.

I did UW for the first time with heroes a few months ago under the illusion it would be fcuking hard. Instead, I found that UW is a walk in the park (Comming from PvP) as long as you come prepared and know what to do. I spend hours behind pawned2 trying to come up with a 8-man (2 players, 6 heroes) build that could split effectively during the 4 horsemen and the Pits quest.

I even did UW NM with these builds and died at dhuum because his skill descriptions are worded wrong (His judgement of dhuum reads damage whereas it does fire damage, which is a huge difference - read: gets doubled due to level difference as opposed to armor ignoring damage)

People need to realize that an 8 man party gains exponential power compared to a 4 man party. This means that an 8 man party isn't twice as strong as a 4 man party, but maybe 3 or 4 times as strong. Party Healing, AoE defence and skills is largely the cause of this: TNTF for exampe will now affect 8 people as opposed to 4, so you gain alot more effectiveness party wide.

You do NOT need to split in UW, it is something from ancient times when people didn't have acces to imbalanced hero AI, imbalanced defence, imbalanced offence and consumables. You can easily keep your intire party, and the Reaper, alive against 10+ Dryders in HM for a a few minutes.

And the sooner people realize this, the sooner you'll see 7 hero team builds appear which can clear UW in a bit over 90 minutes. (I did it with my gf in 2 hours, and my gf is slow as a turtle. She goes afk every second minute to do some kitchen stuff or whatever) Also, this was without cons, NM.

Scary · Dec 06, 2010, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by FyrFytr998

Lol, you new or something? If ANET had the ability to keep up with their projected release dates, our skill updates would come like clockwork and we'd all be playing GW2 right this instant.

I've learned that with GW, it's best to just go about your business and be pleasantly surprised one day when you log on.

Nop not new.... I sayd I HOPE
not that you are wrong...... DOH

Aljasha · Dec 06, 2010, 04:23 PM // 16:23

It's called iteration and that's why other companies like Blizzard usually take much longer to release new games than the competition. ANet basically works the same.

AngelWJedi · Dec 06, 2010, 06:23 PM // 18:23

id admit i used to run sabway and discord way. but now i dont. i use these 3 heros primarly unless i have to bring someone else. i us a UA monk,mmprot necro and a panic messie. and i usually bring 2 ele heros and the 2 monk henchies along with me.