Curse

Martin Alvito · Feb 26, 2010, 12:01 AM // 00:01

@ CLuebag: As noted, playing well is a choice. You made your choice. But if you play badly and waste a better player's time by doing it or boot a match by doing it, expect that player to tell you that you're bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Well, that's a bunch of bull. That's like saying that, since GvG basically boils down to doing more damage to the Lord than the other team, you can mathematically optimize your strategy, right down to your positioning, when you should split, etc.

GvG is much more dependent on your opponent's strategy because there are more variables. You, and your opponent, have freedom to choose different skills and freedom to move. There are multiple paths by which you can generate threats.

When you restrict the game down to "get to point X in the least amount of time" and fix everyone's skills, the strategy of the game quickly collapses. There is some strategy to starting cleanly. After that, the only real strategy in the game is deciding when to Harden if you're not the leader.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

You're not playing solataire here. You cannot "optimize" for other players, how often they get certain powerups, how often they will target the leader, how often they will target the person next to them, which paths they take (and therefore how badly you can screw them up with a KD on a stretch of water or flat ground), how effectively they can evade your body blocks and KDs.

You're worrying about minutiae that either you don't control or don't determine outcomes. For instance, if your opponent takes a suboptimal line through water and doesn't luck into a Super (or possibly an Echo from a certain box), you win every time if you take an optimal line irrespective of whether or not you KD them in the water. If your opponent DOES get a Super, then the stupidest possible thing you could do was waste your KD in the water. You need to use that KD to kill the 100% RRPMs the opponent derived from the Super, because that's going to burn their time a lot more than parking them in the drink for two seconds would have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

It very often does pay off to go out of your way slightly to get a powerup, even though it's off the "optimized path" that you should take if you want to get a top 100 score, because doing so allows you to make up for all those other factors that I listed above, factors that would normally preclude you from getting a top 100 score.

Sorry, but the odds are always against you. In very rare cases it makes sense to gamble for resurrection and open a box that it is normally stupid to pick up. But in the vast majority of races, you will get better results by avoiding stupid late box pickups that kill your RRPMs. This is a simple expected utility calculation; the odds that the pickup will get you something worth more than the time cost of getting it are low for most boxes.

Remember, I finish races too. I like gamer points. And I win the vast majority of the races I finish. You are correct that if I just wanted to win races, I could race between checkpoints 2 and 3 differently and improve my odds of winning. But there isn't a lot of difference in skill usage between a clean 462 run with no speed boosts and a 483+ run. The fast line down the mountain is still the fast line down the mountain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Lastly, if you're in second and the guy in front of you is getting too far ahead, it is much better to use your KDs on him earlier. If he gets too far in front of you, the people behind you won't be able to target or even see him soon, which means that they'll just end up targetting you instead in the hopes of pulling out a second place victory. Second is worth more than third, it's not all about who comes in first.

This cases out nicely:
- losing contact against good resistance: You're done unless you get a Super to close the gap. If you do get a Super, you are better off having KDs available for use in the most effective locations.
- losing contact against bad resistance: You can catch up and reacquire the target. If that's the case you're better off locking the target down on the beach than trying to hold contact and hoping that baddies in the back of the pack use Blast on the leader rather than spamming them randomly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Oh, and might I mention that the guy who gets a Rollerbeetle Blast from the first box he opened and uses it in the tunnel, and then gets one later on and saves it for the final stretch, was able to use twice as many Blasts as the guy who got one early on and saved it because it'd be more influential later.

You should not be getting multiple Blasts. At most you should be picking up four boxes, and the fourth one is pretty dubious. If you're running over lots of boxes and getting duplicate Blasts regularly, you are doing something wrong.

Killed u man · Jul 02, 2010, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Bump since it's RBR event again

Sidenote, already scored a 479K title in the first half hour so I have no more reason to play

On a sidenote: they so should have made this a "single player dungeon". The leaderboard would have looked so different with all the syncers and multi-acounters gone.

dancing gnome · Jul 02, 2010, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Bump since it's RBR event again

Sidenote, already scored a 479K title in the first half hour so I have no more reason to play

On a sidenote: they so should have made this a "single player dungeon". The leaderboard would have looked so different with all the syncers and multi-acounters gone.

Aside from RBR being lame for all the reasons you described, if it were a single player race it wouldn't be any fun (not that rubber banding on the spiral or getting camped is fun anyway). People want to play with other people, they just don't want those other people to spoil their fun.

The attitude top 100s have is offensive tbh. Watching the back of someone who got a good start (SRB) is match manipulation and I wouldn't be surprised if people get banned for it this year. If you are a top 100 and see another top 100 get a good start leading you to decide to help him out, you are manipulating the outcome of the match unfairly for other players.

Feathermoore Rep · Jul 02, 2010, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancing gnome

Aside from RBR being lame for all the reasons you described, if it were a single player race it wouldn't be any fun (not that rubber banding on the spiral or getting camped is fun anyway). People want to play with other people, they just don't want those other people to spoil their fun.

The attitude top 100s have is offensive tbh. Watching the back of someone who got a good start (SRB) is match manipulation and I wouldn't be surprised if people get banned for it this year. If you are a top 100 and see another top 100 get a good start leading you to decide to help him out, you are manipulating the outcome of the match unfairly for other players.

lololololol. thats like saying ganking in halls is match manipulation. will never see bans or changes. just deal with it.

Winterclaw · Jul 02, 2010, 07:59 PM // 19:59

IMO they should have gotten rid of RBR years ago and replaced it with something else.

Karate Jesus · Jul 02, 2010, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

IMO they should have gotten rid of RBR years ago and replaced it with something else.

I would have been allllll for this.

Reverend Dr · Jul 02, 2010, 08:10 PM // 20:10

While I agree that RBR really isn't that great, they just need to get rid of the leaderboard. Then you are left with a casual event for casuals which was all that RBR was ever intended to be from conception.

StormX · Jul 03, 2010, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Finally broke 470 I'll probably get kicked off the leaderboard soon but w/e, it's an achievement for me. RBR isn't much fun when you're rubberbanding, missing boxes cause of lag, getting stuck on the bridge etc(i haate that spiral) but it's faster gamer points than Dragon Arena, which is a sync fest right now...

Final Recall · Jul 03, 2010, 09:11 AM // 09:11

I agree with everything that was said. Excellent guide my friend. And what you said about knowing what the racer next to you is going to is most definitely true. After doing a handful of runs, you begin to run into familiar faces. Some people you recognized because they are a KD abuser, or others because they were using their skills "correctly." I pay close attention to what the other racers are doing, and if they fall into either category mentioned previously, I take a mental note of it. Later, when I see a familiar racer I'll know if I should steer in his/her direction or widen my gap between him/her. Granted that i don't remember the names of most of the racers, I still remember some. Which that knowledge has helped a lot in some races.

Tullzinski · Jul 03, 2010, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

While I agree that RBR really isn't that great, they just need to get rid of the leaderboard. Then you are left with a casual event for casuals which was all that RBR was ever intended to be from conception.

Ackkk stop making sense!!! Not allowed, Racing is srs bsns!

mini pet monster · Jul 03, 2010, 09:05 PM // 21:05

your mom is a distracting lunge.

jazilla · Jul 03, 2010, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

While I agree that RBR really isn't that great, they just need to get rid of the leaderboard. Then you are left with a casual event for casuals which was all that RBR was ever intended to be from conception.

Real man of genius? Indeed. This is the perfect fix to ALL the problems of "casual" fun things to do. Add a reason to boast outside of the match and you are asking for problems. Kudos to you sir for fixing that altogether. **Side note** this is exactly what will happen in the stuff to GW2 if they don't address it this way.

IattackU · Jul 04, 2010, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Thanks for the bump Borat, this was pretty cool to read again.

I don't see why you guys have a problem with the leaderboards. You don't want to go for the leaderboards? Fine, don't. Just because you don't want something doesn't mean they should take it out. I for one love the leaderboard and competing for the top time on the leaderboard.

- Fire Hunter, for those who don't know my forum account. xD

Killed u man · Jul 04, 2010, 11:11 AM // 11:11

I don't really see a need to remove the leaderboard. The problem isn't the fact that there is a leaderboard, and that there is people playing it competitive. (For best times)

The problem is that the casual players and the time-players are mixed together. This results in tactics such as mass-syncing and multi-acounting to be used. I've even heard of certain programs which give you the ability to single-load into a instance. (In a way, it dc's all the other players upon load, and they never load in)

Getting a 480K+ score really isn't that hard (I currently have a 479K time WITH a shitty start and no ECHO/SRB from the first box), the thing is that a regular player simply can not compete with intire guilds syncing and multi-acounting.

Nontheless, I'm happy because I got both my acounts top 100 this time (476K, 479K) and I know I played legit, unlike a large rest of the top 100.
I still play RBR every now and then to try and get a 480k+ time, but after a few tries, I usually quit because in those few occasions I get a perfect start, I always seem to get nothing out of the boxes.

The fact that Manchak and other infamous syncers/Real-life-reward farmers aren't hogging up 50% of the top 100 spots for their beetle is fun too...

Champen · Jul 04, 2010, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Manchak and his friends stopped playing maybe thats why they are not on the leaderboard

And besides that much less ppl are playing during the dragon festival cause u dont get a reward for being top100.

Still grats on top100 i know how hard you tryed last time there was RBR.

Missing HB · Jul 05, 2010, 06:48 AM // 06:48

That side note was interesting : most players do play for the time and not for being first only , whether having a low score or not . In that kind of race games such as mario kart , you can easily go from 1st to last when all are locked on you , but the point is the time you make doesnt really matter.

Thus , they could have made 2 separated mini games :
- 1 time trial , in which you are alone and play for the ladder , but you dont get any trophy
- 1 normal race , where you get a certain amount of trophies relying on ur position.

That would have fixed all syncings and multi accounts in my opinion ..

Killed u man · Feb 03, 2011, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Bumped for relevance.

Missing HB · Feb 04, 2011, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Nothing can be done on it , but multiple accounts on top20( i.e 480+ , those which will be on top100 end ) isn't really fair... Probably ,upon next days , those will extend accounts and then , as usual , top100 will be 20-25 diferent guys( which are same every year ) ...

Maybe they should have made some kind of " beat the clock " , since getting top scores with certain players is close to undoable. I usually can get to 479-480k when i got patience , but here , most of games are like you have everyone locked on you , spamming rock rock blast , etc... I gave up after getting 475k now...
But , what i mean is this fact combined to multiple accounts is just not fair , but can anything be done against it ?

Artisan Archer · Feb 04, 2011, 10:23 AM // 10:23

Stop asking for the game to be adapted to you and adapt to the game.

A11Eur0 · Feb 04, 2011, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

You guys take this all way too seriously.

Well said. Taking however much time you needed to type all that out, for no gain other than to have your 15 seconds of fame on guru...pretty weak.

Run the races, do your thing. let other people do their thing. If they can't understand how it works after 5 races, they need to either stop trying or just live with it.

FYI, I don't race. I don't care to race, and I doubt I even will.