Curse

Kurosaki129 · Feb 11, 2011, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by I am Judge

Do they (anet or test krew) see these type of things? Or contradict previous skill changes only to re-implement them somewhere else to suggest that playing a D/P will have its advantages over playing P/ ?

Imbagon still has its "There is Nothing to Fear!" PvE skill. In terms of Damage Reduction, Paragon Primary still remains on top.

I do agree it is completely BS for Agressive Refrain and Soldier's Fury to have -20 armour while attacking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I am Judge

Now without any form of solid aoe, and a weaker IAS + Adrenaline gain compared to what the derv (may) be it's even less likely to see most paragon's running around.

IAS = We don't know how much of a IAS is being increased for dervish. (no answer yet)

Adrenaline Gain:

Dervish: How much do you know Dervish will gain?
Paragon: Focused Anger (based on Leadership)

AoE:

Have you looked at your aggro bubble when you play Paragon???? I second-main paragon nowadays and everytime i play, i always see myself in middle of the front and backline and my chants, shouts and aggro bubble covers my team. Its a really solider Profession that its chants,shouts covers the team most of the time.

I am Judge · Feb 11, 2011, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horus Moonlight

So you assume AoB can upkeep SY! even though they did not state the magnitude of added adren gain by AoB? You also somehow made a solo UW build even though the energy cost, cast time (well, except for flash enchantments), recharge, and explicit skill mechanics of most the skills mentioned in this preview were not mentioned?

Lol. Less melodrama please.

Lol its not hard to even imagine an energy bases and the already skills in the game. I'm pretty sure with AoB, Lyssa's Haste, and Balthazar's rage it won't be difficult to assume each is not 15 energy or unimaginable amounts of adrenaline... SY is easy enough to maintain with any adrenaline based class and even something like a ranger or sin.

As saying I would only like to see the paragon's elite to not have the -20 but then again I'm talking to the wrong people obviously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurosaki129

AoE:

Have you looked at your aggro bubble when you play Paragon???? I second-main paragon nowadays and everytime i play, i always see myself in middle of the front and backline and my chants, shouts and aggro bubble covers my team. What is your take in this?

true that is usually where one would stand valuable if not hero henching, without micro managing some hero's usually end up close to frontline as is.

As for TNTF, as good as it is, that's not always necessarily something needed. Especially with the various other chants/shouts/echo's... I've been running triple paragon hero's without tntf, and one uses they're on fire... which can be equally as good. And as St union players get shifted around due to the influx of SoS rits, can fill something else like a ward or something as a substitute.

It's rare but often times some play outside the box that is created by PvX.

But as previously stated, I'd only like to see the thought of either AR or Soldiers Fury without the -20...

HigherMinion · Feb 11, 2011, 08:48 AM // 08:48

The -20AL on the paragon is trivial; they're midline. Regardless of their AL though, if they spam SY, they WILL be targeted.

This update is quite lulzy; the insta-rupt is nice, being able to run past people and rupt then go lolbai will be fun. And flash-enchantments act more like strippable Skills rather than stances (can't activate while KD) Would make ench covering for important monk enchants even better.

May I intoduce the new tank of gw? Derv k.

I am Judge · Feb 11, 2011, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

The -20AL on the paragon is trivial; they're midline. Regardless of their AL though, if they spam SY, they WILL be targeted.

This update is quite lulzy; the insta-rupt is nice, being able to run past people and rupt then go lolbai will be fun. And flash-enchantments act more like strippable Skills rather than stances (can't activate while KD) Would make ench covering for important monk enchants even better.

May I intoduce the new tank of gw? Derv k.

Heh, its almost like a whole new class!!! YEEE!!! (still won't play one though) when I first read it though, I was like APRIL FOOLS! Then realized we were still in Feb...

Xsiriss · Feb 11, 2011, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Unimpressed by the preview. NOT what they're changing as for the most part it's good, but then it has been like 6months since we've seen a real update. They could have at least told us which skills were going to cost adrenaline and if the scythe itself (when they talk about changing scythe damage to the mean through skills or inherantly?). Bit brief and it would have been completely appropriate if they gave us at least an ETA seeing as it's taken so long.

dancing gnome · Feb 11, 2011, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xsiriss

Unimpressed by the preview. NOT what they're changing as for the most part it's good, but then it has been like 6months since we've seen a real update. They could have at least told us which skills were going to cost adrenaline and if the scythe itself (when they talk about changing scythe damage to the mean through skills or inherantly?). Bit brief and it would have been completely appropriate if they gave us at least an ETA seeing as it's taken so long.

Expect it before the end of the month. Reading some of the wiki talk and comments made by TK members it seems like the Feature Build might also come out this month (I was expecting it much later tbh) so I wouldn't be surprised if the dervish update comes within the next 7-8 days.

I suppose it doesn't really matter that they didn't list all the skills, it's not like it has much substance until we can actually play with them. I think the purpose of the preview is to act as a kind of primer to give players an idea of what to expect in advance so that when it hits we have an idea of what to do with it. It's not supposed to be a theory-crafting aid.

Riot Narita · Feb 11, 2011, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

We've been taking a look at monster bars for the past two weeks or so I think, so any major skill issues should be dealt with.

Glad to hear that monster Dervish's are at least being looked at... but I'm more interested in what our heroes will do with the new skills. Will they "get" the new mechanics and earn a place in our teams?

dancing gnome · Feb 11, 2011, 09:11 AM // 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot Narita

Glad to hear that monster Dervish's are at least being looked at... but I'm more interested in what our heroes will do with the new skills. Will they "get" the new mechanics and earn a place in our teams?

There is supposed to be a melee hero ai update with the feature build. It would be /facepalm if the dervish hero ai was broken after that update.

HigherMinion · Feb 11, 2011, 09:38 AM // 09:38

I don't *want* dervish monsters to be looked at unless they're given some imba shit too. Why bother making an update to make players stronger and mobs even weaker?

Why do you want Hard Mode to be easy?

Xsiriss · Feb 11, 2011, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

I don't *want* dervish monsters to be looked at unless they're given some imba shit too. Why bother making an update to make players stronger and mobs even weaker?

Why do you want Hard Mode to be easy?

Dervish monsters in HM are ridiculous unless you pack some good protection It's basically them with perma whirling charge, higher armour, infinite energy and of course a sh*t ton of more damage.

draxynnic · Feb 11, 2011, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Puppeteer

well they deserved it...
next stop - HM eles!

And paragons. Both were on the backburner because they still had uses, though, even if paragons are a little limited in what's actually effective.

I believe Stumme wants to do some general balancing before diving into another big project, though, but the elementalist might just get some love there anyway - I can think of some simple adjustments that might help significantly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

If nothing is done to Aura of Holy Might, the Assassin will still be superior with a Scythe. There was no mention in the preview, so it still concerns me.

That may not really be a problem. The idea of the update wasn't strictly to make dervishes the best scythe-wielders in the game but to make them the best in the game at being dervishes - largely, it appears, by going back to the original concept of the profession and making it actually work. If you're not using avatars, close-range enchantments, or Mysticism in general, I don't see any problem with a particular build turning out to work better on a different primary.

Regarding flash enchantments - I can see them getting moved over to a couple of Elementalist skills, namely Storm Djinn's Haste and Burning Speed (both practically there already, and besides, having to stop to use a speed boost is... clumsy, as has already been observed with the Dervish). I wouldn't expect to see it on anything non-Dervish with a current casting time higher than 1/4s, though.

aspi · Feb 11, 2011, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xsiriss

Dervish monsters in HM are ridiculous unless you pack some good protection It's basically them with perma whirling charge, higher armour, infinite energy and of course a sh*t ton of more damage.

Indeed, a HM boss dervish will rip your team in half with one sweep. Hell from the looks of it a normal derv will rip your team a new one.

Gill Halendt · Feb 11, 2011, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Way to go, making the Dervish more unique and worth playing, instead of just nerfing the competition.

Mysticism to work a bit like Expertise. Good.

Adrenaline and Flash Enchantments. Good.

Actually, I don't think AoHM needs changes anymore. This update is likely filling a significant portion of the gap between Dervishes and other melee classes.

Curious about the "tweaks to scythe damage". Wonder what they meant with that. If the damage range of the weapons is altered (higher base, lower maximum), scythe-wielding secondaries will likely have less of and advantage using the Scythe anyway.

Catchphrase · Feb 11, 2011, 10:37 AM // 10:37

They do read our suggestions, don't they? Despite I'm "pro-buff" for dervish, I am strongly against this new skill archetype, flash enchantment. Case in point: Lyssa's Haste + Pious Fury + Featherfoot Grace > pre-nerf PR war.

Maybe I am jumping the gun too soon, but nevertheless I felt there is a need for dervish enchantments to have casting time unless they are introducing more spells with disable or spell failure effects for midline casters to deter dervish.

Artisan Archer · Feb 11, 2011, 10:39 AM // 10:39

So, dervishes get their own version of Expertise?

asb · Feb 11, 2011, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catchphrase

but nevertheless I felt there is a need for dervish enchantments to have casting time

One does not have to exclude the other. If the live team can pull off coding in instant enchants, I don't think it would be a problem to go full GW2 and just let the Dervish cast spells with a cast time while in motion.

HigherMinion · Feb 11, 2011, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Curious about the "tweaks to scythe damage". Wonder what they meant with that. If the damage range of the weapons is altered (higher base, lower maximum), scythe-wielding secondaries will likely have less of and advantage using the Scythe anyway.

They mentioned "less clunky" so I think it has to do with the wide damage range and critical damage.

@cryers who don't like HM derv boss damage; use prots. Aegis/PS and no melee boss is a pain.

Rushin Roulette · Feb 11, 2011, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

You forgot a few things. Necros got life steal, monks had holy damage and have a stronghold on healing/protection (even if others get access to it, they'll never take the monk's uniqueness in that), assassins have dual attacks (may be tied to daggers but it's as unique to assassins as anything not under the primary for every profession) and shadowstepping, mesmers got energy steal, ritualists got situational sacrifices (so necro got some uniqueness to that, plus necro sacs are mostly 1e now), Paragons also have echos, and dervishes had(have?) multi-target scythes.

Actually Im going to have to side with MithranArkanere on this one. The mechanics of the classes have been intermixed and nerfed/buffed so often that not many of your list of unique attributes really are unique;

Necros and Ritualists both have Lifestealing skills. Vampirism/Bloodsong and varous weapon spells come to mind.

Monks, Ritualists and Paragons all have access to healing / protection. They are just named differently. The mechanics are the same.

Regarding Assassins and dual attack skills and also Dervishes with multi target hits on a scythe. Other melee classes have skills that attack 2 times (Sun and Moon slash for example). Weapon attributes are not bound to the classes. I could take a paragon without any points in Dagger mastery or Scythe mastery or skills from those lines and I will still be able to get dual attacks every now and then on autoattack with daggers or hit up to 3 targets with a scythe.

Both Necros and Assassins have shadow stepping skills. True, the necro versions are not really shadow stepping, but true teleporting as they ignore terrain obstacles... but in the end they are similar enough to not really be unique in that sence.

The only unique types of skills I see in your list are Mesmers stealing energy (as other profession skills only cause energy loss but no energy gain for the caster), Paragons with Chants and Echoes and now Dervishes with Flash enchantments. 3 proffessions out of 10 is not really very close to every profession has its special skill types.

Spiritz · Feb 11, 2011, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Id also like to know whats going to happen to scythes - i prefer using crit scythe sin in pve mainly because its annoying on a dagger sin to have to do an attack chain and get blocked after first skill which then means your usless for a short while.
Are anet going to revamp sin as well in the future and change all the dagger attacks to non chaining req or even scarier would they make all ( and i mean all ) melee skills regardless of profession andren based.

cataphract · Feb 11, 2011, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Puppeteer

well they deserved it...
next stop - HM eles!

Most def.