Curse

go cubs · Mar 04, 2011, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGizzy

Seems to me I can replicate it - I party up with my friend who is also an elementalist, and we each drag along our three elementalist heroes. Now we've got a party of 8 elementalists, and I didn't have to pay a dime.

So if the argument is that the end effect cannot be duplicated without spending money... then the argument is a fail.

It takes additional effort to cap a skill or unlock it via faction from that which is required to obtain it via a skill pack - but the skill is obtainable either way. It takes additional effort to form an 8-custom profession party by partying up with an additional player(s) - but it is still obtainable either way.

This, it is not an advantage. This thread no longer has a valid argument.

*lemming* · Mar 04, 2011, 08:13 PM // 20:13

That requires... another person.

Lasai · Mar 04, 2011, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGizzy

Seems to me I can replicate it - I party up with my friend who is also an elementalist, and we each drag along our three elementalist heroes. Now we've got a party of 8 elementalists, and I didn't have to pay a dime.

So if the argument is that the end effect cannot be duplicated without spending money... then the argument is a fail.

It takes additional effort to cap a skill or unlock it via faction from that which is required to obtain it via a skill pack - but the skill is obtainable either way. It takes additional effort to form an 8-custom profession party by partying up with an additional player(s) - but it is still obtainable either way.

This is the part I don't get.. the ability to compose these so called advantaged groups has been in the game since NF.. and none seem to exist in PvE. Perhaps now that heros can be prettier they will assume godlike powers that were unsuspected up to now.

Seems an incredible reach to find fault where there is none.

TheGizzy · Mar 04, 2011, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

That requires... another person.

And the lack of skill packs requires an exceptional amount of effort, skill and luck getting far enough along in the campaigns to be able to cap the skills to begin with... or an exceptional amount of patience and/or skill to be able to earn enough faction to unlock them that way.

So it isn't really that the end effect of a fully customized party is unobtainable, it's that the methods of obtaining that customized party are not to your liking.

And that's perfectly ok... but it still doesn't demonstrate a concrete or tangible reward available to those who buy the merc pack which is unobtainable by those who don't.

Lasai · Mar 04, 2011, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

That requires... another person.

But you are talking theory, and in theory a supergroup of the composition you are all ranting over could have, and would have been done long ago and the supposed OP of that makeup ranted about long ago. "OMG nerf full necro groups because I am an [insert prof] and can't get a group"

Still not seeing a legitimate issue. Care should be taken not to make it an issue, since the mechanic to create the groups you label as advantaged are ingame now. How many want a popup saying "You cannot invite X because you have max number of X prof in your party"? That would be the fix, they are not going to undo the already purchased Merc slots.

bhavv · Mar 04, 2011, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Not this again, the OP couldnt be any more wrong.

I have said this a few times already, with using extra mercenary slots, there is absolutely NO SINGLE BUILD that you can make that is anymore powerful than taking Olias, Livia, MoW, Norgu, Gwen, Xandra, and Razah.

3x Discord, 1x Panic, 1x Ineptitude, 1x SoS, 1x Soul Twisting or Signet of Ghostly Might.

If you think that adding more of the same profession such as 4+ necros is going to make the game any easier than the above setup, you have absolutely no clue how to play GW.

With 7 heroes for free, and all the ones you already have, the game is now so easy that it feels moronic playing it with such a powerful hero setup. Adding your alts as heroes DOESNT DO ANYTHING to give you any ingame advantage, you already have so much unbelievable advantage as it is.

If you feel disadvantaged in anyway without paying for mercenary slots, seriously learn how to play the game instead of whining.

Dzjudz · Mar 04, 2011, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGizzy

1. And an SC team can do it faster/easier than I can. Better nerf those, then, since it's unfair that those players are getting more ectos than I am... that means they can buy a polar bear and I can't! Ohnoes!! Because it certainly isn't allowing them to buy better weapons than me...

Not a good comparison. You can join an SC team, while I cannot make the same hero parties as someone with mercs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I have said this a few times already, with using extra mercenary slots, there is absolutely NO SINGLE BUILD that you can make that is anymore powerful than taking Olias, Livia, MoW, Norgu, Gwen, Xandra, and Razah.

3x Discord, 1x Panic, 1x Ineptitude, 1x SoS, 1x Soul Twisting or Signet of Ghostly Might.

I don't need mercs to make a better team than that, but there might be even better teams with mercs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

If you feel disadvantaged in anyway without paying for mercenary slots, seriously learn how to play the game instead of whining.

Not the point. The fact remains that they can make teams that I cannot without paying.

TheGizzy · Mar 04, 2011, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

Not a good comparison. You can join an SC team, while I cannot make the same hero parties as someone with mercs.

As demonstrated already, yes you can. What you are objecting to isn't that you can't have a fully customizable team, it is that the methods available to you for that customization are not to your liking. A fully custom party IS available to you, you just aren't happy with the method. But you are no less able to put together a team of 8 "whatevers" than anyone else.

*lemming* · Mar 04, 2011, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGizzy

And the lack of skill packs requires an exceptional amount of effort, skill and luck getting far enough along in the campaigns to be able to cap the skills to begin with... or an exceptional amount of patience and/or skill to be able to earn enough faction to unlock them that way.

I think involving a second person is something fundamentally different from playing by yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I have said this a few times already, with using extra mercenary slots, there is absolutely NO SINGLE BUILD that you can make that is anymore powerful than taking Olias, Livia, MoW, Norgu, Gwen, Xandra, and Razah.

3x Discord, 1x Panic, 1x Ineptitude, 1x SoS, 1x Soul Twisting or Signet of Ghostly Might.

If you think that adding more of the same profession such as 4+ necros is going to make the game any easier than the above setup, you have absolutely no clue how to play GW.

Why are you so convinced that this build is the end-all of hero builds? I'm reasonably confident in assuming that not a lot of people have been testing 7 hero builds using a second person as a guinea pig.

bhavv · Mar 04, 2011, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

I don't need mercs to make a better team than that, but there might be even better teams with mercs.

Not the point. The fact remains that they can make teams that I cannot without paying.

1) Trust me there arent any better than that. Instead of assuming, how about you actually think of what could be better? Nothing is, I've already tried 6 discord heroes with 2 people well before this update, and its actually a lot worse than running with H/H was. Filling a team up with discord heroes is crap, you need dome AoE, pressure, and even sprits too.

2) So what? You can already make plenty enough teams with the heroes you already have. If its that big a problem to you, stop being a cheapskate and buy the mercenary pack. I've already done it, and its hardly as good or as powerful as people who havnt bought it are whining about. Its simply a fun and visual thing only to be able to use your alts as heroes, and a minor convenience such as sdding more hero builds so you dont need to keep on re runing (I have my 3 ingame necros set up as Discord way, and have added another 2 nero mercenaries for Sabway so I dont need to keep on changing runes and builds when I want to swap between discordway and SS / SV).

Dzjudz · Mar 04, 2011, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGizzy

As demonstrated already, yes you can. What you are objecting to isn't that you can't have a fully customizable team, it is that the methods available to you for that customization are not to your liking. A fully custom party IS available to you, you just aren't happy with the method. But you are no less able to put together a team of 8 "whatevers" than anyone else.

Tell me, how can I get 7 customisable heroes of any profession without buying merc slots?

2 accounts: you get 6 heroes, not 7, and you lose them when you zone.

2 people: you get 6 heroes and another person. This is a pug.

Even with 2 accounts/people I wouldn't be able to make a 7 rit team if I wanted to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

1) Trust me there arent any better than that. Instead of assuming, how about you actually think of what could be better? Nothing is, I've already tried 6 discord heroes with 2 people well before this update, and its actually a lot worse than running with H/H was. Filling a team up with discord heroes is crap, you need dome AoE, pressure, and even sprits too.

I wasn't thinking more discord, I was thinking less...

And yes, I have 2 accounts so I have already played pretty much any available build combo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

stop being a cheapskate and buy the mercenary pack

Exactly the point of the thread: pay to get an advantage.

And I won't buy it at this price.

bhavv · Mar 04, 2011, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

Tell me, how can I get 7 customisable heroes of any profession without buying merc slots?

Tell me, why do you want everything for free in an MMO? If you want mercs that badly, then buy some slots and contribute towards keeping this game alive like some of the rest of us are doing, rather than whining about being able to play for free of other peoples purchases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

And yes, I have 2 accounts so I have already played pretty much any available build combo.

So you paid for two accounts to use 6 heroes, and you now have 7 heroes entirely for free but complain about having the option to pay for your own custom heroes?

Dzjudz · Mar 04, 2011, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Tell me, why do you want everything for free in an MMO? If you want mercs that badly, then buy some slots and contribute towards keeping this game alive like some of the rest of us are doing, rather than whining about being able to play for free of other peoples purchases.

One of the biggest mantras of GW was that everyone has the same benefits without paying. That is exactly what was ruined with this update and what the thread is about.

I'm not whining about paying. I have all costumes. I would welcome mercs as replacements for heroes with our own chars.

What I am against is the advantage of mercs over non-mercs...

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

So you paid for two accounts to use 6 heroes, and you now have 7 heroes entirely for free but complain about having the option to pay for your own custom heroes?

See above.

bhavv · Mar 04, 2011, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

One of the biggest mantras of GW was that everyone has the same benefits without paying. That is exactly what was ruined with this update and what the thread is about.

Everyone does still have the same benefits, mercenaries dont give anyone an unfair advantage over what you can already do with the ingame heroes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

What I am against is the advantage of mercs over non-mercs...
See above.

There is absolutely not a single advantage to mercs over normal heroes. You should know that if you know how powerful your heroes can already get. Theres nothing more better that a team full of necro heroes can do over the free heroes.

TheGizzy · Mar 04, 2011, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

I think involving a second person is something fundamentally different from playing by yourself.

I actually agree with you, especially since I prefer solo'ing, which is why other than for work, I generally avoid MMOs.

But that comes down to exercising a personal choice... and whether or not the game is required to accommodate every choice you would LIKE to make.

It is not necessary to gameplay to have a party include mercs. It is not necessary to the successful completion of any part of the game. It is not necessary to obtain any rewards.

It's a choice based on convenience - being able to have the custom party without partying up with someone else. That's convenience, not advantage. It is a convenience you can choose to obtain by paying for it, or one you can decide is not worth the money. It will not stop you from playing the game content 100%.

You can pay for the convenience or not. Some people will, most probably won't. It's not a convenience to me or how I like to play, so I won't be paying for it.

Dzjudz · Mar 04, 2011, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Everyone does still have the same benefits, mercenaries dont give anyone an unfair advantage over what you can already do with the ingame heroes.

For the last time, you cannot make the same teams as someone with mercs if you don't have them.

bhavv · Mar 04, 2011, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

For the last time, you cannot make the same teams as someone with mercs if you don't have them.

And for the last time, thats not a disadvantage.

Dzjudz · Mar 04, 2011, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Not if you think that the build you posted above is the supreme end-all hero team build of GW.

But it isn't.

Kunder · Mar 04, 2011, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Next up, Anet adds a duplicate version of mending to the guild wars store. 15 page thread full of rage because a 2nd mending is totally unbalanced in some obscenely obscure build that only a moron would be using.

Lasai · Mar 04, 2011, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

One of the biggest mantras of GW was that everyone has the same benefits without paying. That is exactly what was ruined with this update and what the thread is about.

I'm not whining about paying. I have all costumes. I would welcome mercs as replacements for heroes with our own chars.

What I am against is the advantage of mercs over non-mercs...
See above.

No, you are ranting against the so called advantage people would have using Mercs to create some so far.. unknown.. supergroup. If you all somehow manage to prove this point, what do you think is going to happen? Everyone is going to get free mercs? Or.. group makeup caps per prof.

Honestly, if you somehow prove that more than x prof per group is seriously unbalancing to the point you claim that IS what will be nerfed regardless of Heros or Player composition.

You people seriously need to be careful what you wish for.