Curse

Killed u man · Mar 04, 2011, 02:37 AM // 02:37

With the recent 7 heroes update, should this debate be opened (again)?

Initially, Anet wanted players to keep an inherent advantage over heroes by disallowing them to use certain -really- powerfull skills. However, the closer we come to the end of GW (You can deny it all you want), the lesser important game balance (In every aspect) becomes.

So aside from maybe a couple of technical issues (Do heroes have title tracks?), is there any reason not to allow heroes to bring 3 PvE skills per bar anymore? The game is broken beyond repair anyways. Every weapon, rune and crafting material has gotten farmed into oblivion.

With recent steps, Anet has shown they're willing to make the last breath a good one and thus GW 2011 should start to focus on fun rather than balance ethics.

When you're a team of friends (or family) looking for that last SY paragon player to go into UW, why should you get forced to wait for hours on end when you could've just taken a hero with the same bar.

With this 7 hero update, it would be a welcome extra to finally be able to use PvE skills on those heroes, there simply isn't a reason anymore not to have this.

Inferno Link · Mar 04, 2011, 02:39 AM // 02:39

I feel like this game is already easy with 7 heroes. PVE skills would be overkill.

Cuilan · Mar 04, 2011, 02:40 AM // 02:40

PvE skills are for humans and groups of humans. Take other players if you want more PvE skills. Duuurr.

MArcSinus · Mar 04, 2011, 02:43 AM // 02:43

You just got a 7 hero party and you still want more?

For the love of.....

Arieon Ito · Mar 04, 2011, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Definitely not.

I don't play with other players most of the time except for DoA/Deep/Urgoz but I don't think we should be thrown stuff like this. Or else everything will roll through PvE and it's zero challenge.

E.G. Bring a few hexes and run a 4-5 Me/N heroes, bring Cry of Pain, Necrosis and Ether Nightmare and monks and watch everything explode in a blink of an eye.

Not my cup of tea(m).

Killed u man · Mar 04, 2011, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

PvE skills are for humans and groups of humans. Take other players if you want more PvE skills. Duuurr.

What's the sense in arguing: "PvE skills are for humans". That's not an arguement, that's a statement.

Why wouldn't heroes be able to use PvE skills nowadays?

I also never asked for the 7 hero team update, I much rather would've had a 3 hero with PvE skills team so I could actually play elite areas with my girlfriend without having to pug. (And pugging in elite areas is still a major annoyance)

But from what I can draw from posts here: Being able to solo PvE HM easymode is alright, but doing it a bit faster isn't anymore?

Where exactly does the line lies?

If you told people from 2005 you once will be able to run a full hero team, they'll react in a similar way you guys are acting now (probably even more extreme) saying that it would completely break PvE.

But then I questions: Isn't PvE already completely broken as a result of those PvE skills and the fact you can play fully solo now in 7 hero teams? Why draw the line at "7 hero team" and not "7 hero PvE skills team"?

I'm curious as to how this concensus has been created that a "7 hero team" is A-OK all of a sudden whereas PvE skills would make it "overpowered".

Tried and Triumphed · Mar 04, 2011, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Well heros do gain benefits for your title tracks it's a little overkill I think for them to have pve skills except summon spirits give em that one and id be content

KZaske · Mar 04, 2011, 02:55 AM // 02:55

I feel that PvE skills are just too powerful. It would not bother me at all if they were completely removed from the game, and I would rather they were removed than spammed across every hero/Merc in the game. The game is getting too easy as it is.

ajc2123 · Mar 04, 2011, 02:55 AM // 02:55

I just cleared all of DoA (except for mallyx) with 7 heroes...Lets not get crazy now. Pve skills are fine as is.

bhavv · Mar 04, 2011, 02:57 AM // 02:57

No definitely not.

Its ridiculously easy enough now, no need for PVE skills on heroes.

PVE skills on players only is the only thing that will keep people playing together for end game content and speed clears, theres no need to kill that off.

I think that with how powerful 7 heroes and normal skills are, that I wouldnt care at all if there were no PVE skills in the game.

novawhiz · Mar 04, 2011, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Real players shouldnt be able to use PvE skills.

Seriously, are there not enough OP non-pve skills to abuse?

Arieon Ito · Mar 04, 2011, 02:59 AM // 02:59

A 7 hero team is only ok because you can build interesting and innovative group build dynamics instead of using the default builds on henchmen (which have also been updated but still aren't as dynamic)

Adding PvE skills to heroes just makes the entire concept ridiculous. And I've been playing fully solo with 3 heroes and others have done it with dual accounts. And PvE isn't completely broken with the PvE skills, it did end up having more PuGs because of needing PvE skills.

Ok, if you'd like heroes to have PvE skills, then why not let enemies have them too? It would be fair game after all. And wait if that's the case, we might as well just move all these skills into the primary class attributes.

More is good, but your suggestion really sounds like overkill. Not every PvE skill, but for most.

Inferno Link · Mar 04, 2011, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arieon Ito

A 7 hero team is only ok because you can build interesting and innovative group build dynamics instead of using the default builds on henchmen (which have also been updated but still aren't as dynamic)

Adding PvE skills to heroes just makes the entire concept ridiculous. And I've been playing fully solo with 3 heroes and others have done it with dual accounts. And PvE isn't completely broken with the PvE skills, it did end up having more PuGs because of needing PvE skills.

Ok, if you'd like heroes to have PvE skills, then why not let enemies have them too? It would be fair game after all. And wait if that's the case, we might as well just move all these skills into the primary class attributes.

More is good, but your suggestion really sounds like overkill. Not every PvE skill, but for most.

Monsters do have PvE skills lawl. Ever heard of Impossible odds, etc?

bhavv · Mar 04, 2011, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by novawhiz

Real players shouldnt be able to use PvE skills.

Seriously, are there not enough OP non-pve skills to abuse?

Yea I agree.

As an example, Panic > Every PVE only skill.

'Nuff said. Add a panic mesmer to your 7 hero party, rofflestomp everything in the whole game.

zk_ · Mar 04, 2011, 03:05 AM // 03:05

I honestly don't see what the problem would be. Most of the skills aren't all that impressive, and ai has never been able to use the vast majority of skills as well as decent players can. Sure, the ai shines in a few areas, but those areas are basically "boring maintenence" or "inhuman reaction time", and along with the inhuman reaction time on interrupts comes the "horribly wasted interrupt" aspect.

People that talk about "making things too easy" stike me as rather odd. Folks have been steamrolling pretty much everything in pve for years. Giving heroes pve skills isn't going to change much of anything as far as I can see.

Not to mention if you think something's too easy, you can always handicap yourself to make it more difficult. Bring fewer party members, leave some skill slots blank, don't spend all your attribute points, there's all sorts of interesting ways to increase the challenge if you feel the need.

Personally, all I'd really use it for is having morgahn yell "finish him!" every now and then for the lulz.
*shrug*

Cuilan · Mar 04, 2011, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Why wouldn't heroes be able to use PvE skills nowadays?

One reason would be that it would make title grinding harder. Not harder for difficulty, but harder for things like guardian, vanquishing, and many others because those players will have less people to play with. Not everyone is going to be hero only.

Less people to play with would be less reason to log in and do anything.

Killed u man · Mar 04, 2011, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Yea I agree.

As an example, Panic > Every PVE only skill.

'Nuff said. Add a panic mesmer to your 7 hero party, rofflestomp everything in the whole game.

And so my question still stands:

If Panic and such already completely break the game, why not allow us to run PvE skills aswell?

Lolredicilousoverpowered is ok, but lolredicilousomgoverpowered isn't?

Why does the line get drawn there, as people pointed out there is enough non-PvE skill builds out there that already completely stomp PvE.

I would love to be able to bring a SY paragon hero, why not allow me to?

@ Cuilan: Agreed, but what about 7 hero teams then? Do you really believe people wouldn't already just go with heroes instead of players?

Rafiftw · Mar 04, 2011, 03:10 AM // 03:10

7 heroes AP'ing EVAS would be legit.

Kook~NBK~ · Mar 04, 2011, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Not, "no." But "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

Guild Wars doens't need any more "easy buttons." The more they add, the sadder this game becomes.

Cuilan · Mar 04, 2011, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

@ Cuilan: Agreed, but what about 7 hero teams then? Do you really believe people wouldn't already just go with heroes instead of players?

I don't know. As it was before update, heros were often filler. If there's less grouping, it would mean a much more dead game.