Curse

X Dr Pepper X · Mar 18, 2011, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

^^This.

I am glad PvP is getting some attention, but news about more dramatic skill and content updates is what I'm looking for.

I don't mind what they focus their work on, but I want some detailed news of it.

I do not want at all to see a repeat of the long silence and lack of information because of what happened with the Dervish update.

Marverick · Mar 18, 2011, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Energy storage should give 3% armor penetration per rank. That will solve the damage problem...

Rangers need to have like 90% of the bow and pet attacks reworked to actually do something useful.

Traps should be projectiles; you can throw traps at half range at foes, and they aren't easily interruptible.

Nature spirits should become an ally and follow you around, so you don't have to recast them everywhere.

Splinter Volley (Barrage is almost never worth it over Volley) is good only because Splinter Weapon is good, and that's a Ritualist skill, not a Ranger skill.

LifeInfusion · Mar 18, 2011, 03:46 AM // 03:46

lol at fail Ele update. Read: made ele damage more expensive in PVE (-10 damage for -2 recharge = -10% on [email protected] and -25% recharge --> 1.35x damage before aftercast or "40/40" set), decreased cast time on attunements for elements that don't get used. The more ele damage gets reduced into DPS rather than spike, the more crappy it is. If you can't spike down multiple mobs in a few seconds, you're better off with Discord/SoS/Mesmer AoEs/Keystone Mes or even a SS necro (41*6=246; 37*6=222).

All the Avatar of Grenth change does is add more Fragility triggers at the expense of armor-ignoring damage. Flash enchantments need to have longer recharge in PvP, IMO (6 --> 8, 10-->12?). 2x 6 recharges and you have perma-disease (2x 10 recharges atm).

I also don't see a point to the Aura of Thorns change. Cripple lasting a few seconds shorter isn't going to make a difference to Aura of Thorns ->Twin moon--> Gash.

Crippling Sweep could be made even less damage. See Axe Rake/Hamstring/crip slash/pin down/crip shot/maiming spear/Leaping mantis sting (+20ish on a weapon that does ~1/3 base damage compared to scythe).

Barbed signet (PVP) got smacked. Nobody uses it in PvE anyway.

Consume Soul is a hard counter, nothing more. Why not use Spiritual pain instead? The recharge on spirits isn't 5 seconds anyhow.

Signet of Suffering is going to be laughable when used by Awakened mobs

Oppressive Gaze isn't overly strong. The nerf didn't make it suck, it just made it not a "use and forget" skill like Life Siphon or Barbed signet (i.e. passive effects).

FD got hit, more than it needs to be probably. You can put it on 2 people atm.

Positive change: Rending Aura is no longer armor ignoring. EDA damage+recharge nerf. Harrier's Haste smacked hard (no more perma IAS+IMS).

EDIT: If it's a PVP update, I wonder why Invoke hasn't been split. It's the same as nonelite chain lightning, minus 1 cast time. Not exactly elite worthy, except when you run 5-6 copies of it and shell shock for Invoke Spike (topping out at about 115-120 damage, i.e. kills on 600HP using 5 of them). For the damage, you can run Water ele with Mirror of Ice or a dom mesmer with Mind wrack+shatter delusions (~100) or energy surge (~90). The only caveat is the nearby range; a few seconds shorter cooldown.

If air is nerfed any more all you'll see is water + the occasional mindblast fire ele w/ meteor. You don't need more than 6 air for gale and blurred vision sticks longer than blind does (B-surge/B-Flash).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Invoke change is going to affect PvE alright, although I agree the effects aren't going to be that major, it's a nerf regardless (unlike a nerf to, say, Watchful Healing).

The point is that having 10 less damage with a shorter recharge is a nerf however you look at it. Invoke Lightning's DPS isn't [insert damage]/8, just like Discord's DPS isn't 105/3. More damage with longer recharge opens up more time to cast other spells like Lightning Orb and Chain Lightning, something less damage with shorter recharge doesn't do.

Invoke is dmg/(8+1+0.75) , now 90/(6+1+0.75)

Invoke + Chain is 2xdmg/(6+1+0.75) which is in theory more damage. Neither skill combo instagibs like discord + AP callers (16 air Orb+Chain+Invoke = max 399).

You can take into account the damage boost due to cracked armor on 80 armor: 140/106*10=13 damage

It's different than Discord because Discord is on 2 recharge so you just spam 3+ copies for instagib and switch targets.

It's a nerf because of energy and spike-power, not so much a nerf to damage. An ele can't sustain the energy needed to fire off more spells than Invoke + chain with the current recharges. Attune+AoR = 5 energy instead of 10 energy on each. So you can fire off those two twice in 8 seconds unassisted (i.e. 10 energy on 4 pips) at the moment which is why 8-10 recharge is ideal. With a "40/40" set you average at 1.440 energy per second at the moment just running chain + invoke. Once you throw in Orb, you're out of luck, you need glyph. With the change you push 1.633 energy per second to push out max 38DPS per target (instead of the previous max 36DPS with longer recharge). Camping a shield set, the effective cool-down between Invoke + chain is ~4.1 seconds which is more reasonable than with a "40/40" (more reasonable on your energy with a cost of ~1.339en/sec) at the cost of dipping to a max of ~31DPS on 3 targets.

Orb is a skill that tricks people into its cost without Elemental attunement, it's not sustainable so at best it's a last-ditch effort for spiking at the cost of drain on an Ele's larger energy pool. Alternately with Intensity + Orb, it becomes a 13 energy (under AoR + attune) AoE since the only other non-conditional option is 21 energy (Lightning hammer + Intensity).

*lemming* · Mar 18, 2011, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Honestly, I still don't think that the blood necro nerf is going to be enough. It'll stop ridiculous things like quad necro being driven by a Consume Soul blood necro, but that's about it. There are currently playable eliteless bars that do a comparably good job as the Crip Anguish variant at both being a split threat and 8v8.

Daisuko · Mar 18, 2011, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stéphane Lo Presti

Hi everyone,

We've got a skill update coming and we just posted the preliminary notes about the next skill balance up on the official wiki:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...views/20110317

Thanks.

Nice info, thanks

Hmm... slight nerf to some dervish skills, slight buff to some depending on application.

straight buff to ele's, though few skills that are buffed.

Don't see why people are complaining in a 10% damage nerf to invoke, when the recharge is reduced by 25%, it's still a buff overall.

Though, I have to say wtf at signet of suffering, that seems like a terrible horrible skill :P

pingu666 · Mar 18, 2011, 05:30 AM // 05:30

because its reducing damage on a poor hardmode class, its also becomes more expensive aswell as your casting it more often

Kurosaki129 · Mar 18, 2011, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Taken from Guild Wars 2 , Elementalist Introduction

Quote:

The elementalist channels natural forces of destruction, making fire, air, earth, and water do her bidding. What the elementalist lacks in physical toughness, she makes up for in her ability to inflict massive damage in a single attack

or from Guild Wars 1, Elementalist Introduction

Quote:

With magic derived from the very foundations of nature itself, Elementalists can inflict more damage in a single strike than any other profession

Note "Single Attack" but casting again and again just to reach that overall damage is not what i see in elementalist.

Quite contradicting.

Karate Jesus · Mar 18, 2011, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurosaki129

Taken from Guild Wars 2 , Elementalist Introduction

or from Guild Wars 1, Elementalist Introduction

Note "Single Attack" but casting again and again just to reach that overall damage is not what i see in elementalist.

Quite contradicting.

If we're going to start listing the contradictions within Guild Wars, we'll probably finish around the time of the Second Coming (possibly the Third).

However, you are very right.

AngelWJedi · Mar 18, 2011, 05:57 AM // 05:57

hmms all they talked about is changes to pvp skills. i hope they dont forget about winds of change. the zv and other stuff we got it cool,but would be nice to get new content. xD

Elnino · Mar 18, 2011, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

6. Consume Soul should be split because of its importance in PvE, specifically Mallyx.

All the more reason to nerf it imo. They target skills that have become staples in aspects of the game. Like the Shadowform, Asura Scan and BuH changes.

AndroBubbles · Mar 18, 2011, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Yes, they will.

I don't see the point when there are plenty of other degen options that involve bleeding. If that's really what the bar is for then get something better.

*lemming* · Mar 18, 2011, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Blood necros aren't problematic just because they spread bleeding. They also provide armor-ignoring spike damage, physical hate, enchantment removal, an offensive split threat, and a defensive split threat in addition to spreading as much degeneration as a conventional hex necro or a ranger. In short, they do far too many things too well.

Even just a five skill nonelite bar of Barbed Signet/Angorodon's Gaze/Oppressive Gaze/Strip Enchantment/Life Siphon provides 90% of the functionality, which is why depriving the blood necro of the flexibility available from having a free elite slot is far less crippling than it initially works. Where we currently have Expel Hexes, we'll see Convert Hexes. As for Flesh Wound, Foul Feast. For Crippling Anguish, Imagined or Ethereal Burden. The only elite that people actively run on blood necros that won't have a direct replacement is Consume Soul, but that's another can of worms - that skill should have never existed.

Imaginos · Mar 18, 2011, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarcryOfTruth

The wiki said this:

In an update next week, we will address some PvP issues...

So, all of the updates seem to be for PvP.

Except they're obviously not otherwise there would be a pvp split for every skill there and there isn't so it's a pvp+pve change for most of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

Energy storage should give 3% armor penetration per rank. That will solve the damage problem..

Suggested the same thing myself...some sort of armor penetration or armor ignoring buff in energy storage for elementals. They could even make it only work in HM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Blood necros aren't problematic just because they spread bleeding. They also provide armor-ignoring spike damage, physical hate, enchantment removal, an offensive split threat, and a defensive split threat in addition to spreading as much degeneration as a conventional hex necro or a ranger. In short, they do far too many things too well.

Even just a five skill nonelite bar of Barbed Signet/Angorodon's Gaze/Oppressive Gaze/Strip Enchantment/Life Siphon provides 90% of the functionality, which is why depriving the blood necro of the flexibility available from having a free elite slot is far less crippling than it initially works. Where we currently have Expel Hexes, we'll see Convert Hexes. As for Flesh Wound, Foul Feast. For Crippling Anguish, Imagined or Ethereal Burden. The only elite that people actively run on blood necros that won't have a direct replacement is Consume Soul, but that's another can of worms - that skill should have never existed.

blood still sucks in pve. no one runs it. everyone is all about death & curses for aoe weakness and cracked armor + mop/barbs.

Chocolate_Prayers · Mar 18, 2011, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Kind of expected Avatar of Grenth to be toned down some, still kind of hoping for a Paragon, Ranger and Monk update some time in the future

*lemming* · Mar 18, 2011, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaginos

blood still sucks in pve. no one runs it. everyone is all about death & curses for aoe weakness and cracked armor + mop/barbs.

These balances aren't for PvE. They're also not split because no one in PvE cares about them anyway.

HellScreamS · Mar 18, 2011, 07:19 AM // 07:19

I was waiting to see when Failnet realized the fail dervish update making em overpowered and decided to nerf em. Thanks for keeping me amused this time and not breaking the tradition Anet.

Imaginos · Mar 18, 2011, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

These balances aren't for PvE. They're also not split because no one in PvE cares about them anyway.

lol says the pvper.

plenty of people care about pve, far more then care about pve then pvp as is seen by all the updates over the years.

*lemming* · Mar 18, 2011, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaginos

lol says the pvper.

plenty of people care about pve, far more then care about pve then pvp as is seen by all the updates over the years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaginos

blood still sucks in pve. no one runs it.

You said it, not me. If you interpreted my post as "no one cares about PvE," read it again.

AndroBubbles · Mar 18, 2011, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Blood necros aren't problematic just because they spread bleeding. They also provide armor-ignoring spike damage, physical hate, enchantment removal, an offensive split threat, and a defensive split threat in addition to spreading as much degeneration as a conventional hex necro or a ranger. In short, they do far too many things too well.

Even just a five skill nonelite bar of Barbed Signet/Angorodon's Gaze/Oppressive Gaze/Strip Enchantment/Life Siphon provides 90% of the functionality, which is why depriving the blood necro of the flexibility available from having a free elite slot is far less crippling than it initially works. Where we currently have Expel Hexes, we'll see Convert Hexes. As for Flesh Wound, Foul Feast. For Crippling Anguish, Imagined or Ethereal Burden. The only elite that people actively run on blood necros that won't have a direct replacement is Consume Soul, but that's another can of worms - that skill should have never existed.

I just honestly don't see signet of corruption being used as the meta in gvg. I don't disagree that it's still viable. I just think they will find something else, or a different midliner altogether. The PvP community seems to be fickle like that sometimes.

gooeydark · Mar 18, 2011, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndroBubbles

I just honestly don't see signet of corruption being used as the meta in gvg. I don't disagree that it's still viable. I just think they will find something else, or a different midliner altogether. The PvP community seems to be fickle like that sometimes.

1. It's Signet of Suffering, not Signet of Corruption.

2. There is no other midline template as powerful as a blood necro, regardless of whether its free elite utility slot is taken away or not. There is no debate about this whatsoever.

I tried to reinforce this in a previous post, as did Lemming, but I feel like I have to point it out again for most of the other posters here.

This

was

a

PvP

balance

update.