Curse

Davros Uitar · Mar 18, 2011, 11:50 AM // 11:50

To me it is minor advantage and not worth a great debate. The person who doesn't buy all chapters trades off money for in game advantage because there are some choice skills only available in one chapter. The person who decided to buy the Cantha collectors edition paid extra for in game advantage - a minipet that if they were lazy and never dropped it became worth many ecto.

I see either of the above two as a greater trade of real game cash for in game advantage. There was no hue and cry over those so making a deal out of mercenary heroes is just lame. Get over it guys and gals

.

Hyaon · Mar 18, 2011, 11:53 AM // 11:53

One thing as someone said before, micro transactions need to be micro on price as well! I'd compromise with micro transactions if this was the case today. Look at how many items, for example new weapon/armour skins in nightfall. If you added all of those items up and divided the full game price with those items, we'd be talking pennies/cents for each item. So in the case of costumes for example, they should not be passing the 1 quid/dollar threshold in pricing. It is blatent overmilking.

Dzjudz · Mar 18, 2011, 12:09 PM // 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Potential solutions are:

1. Cap the number of heroes for each profession that a player can bring at the number of normal heroes for that profession. (Ex: A player cannot bring more than 2 mesmer heroes.)

2. Give everyone one merc hero slot for free. (No, this does not solve the problem, but it's a big incremental step because a lot of the most powerful combinations are only one off from the normal hero limits.)

3. Put in a few general heroes of each profession. This would actually result in Mercenaries being a cosmetic feature only, which is what the company always stood for.

Deadfalk · Mar 18, 2011, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyaon

I find the trend worrying, very little content being charged for an awful lot. Having differences in whats available due to expansions is fine because a huge amount of content is given for a usual price. What I don't want to see is tiny bits of scrap being sold off it just turns the game into a real money grindfest, having to farm gold ingame as well as farm real money outside the game!

Don't give me the 'well don't buy it blahblah', end of the day it will leave people out compared to expansions where it made perfect sense to part with your money as you're getting pretty much the same oppourtunities to get some interesting gear or new missions etc.

That's the most annoying part of the whole thing, unique heroes ok, but at such an expense indeeds goes too far for one side of the community, and makes one (minor) side waste money, under which are parts with more (threepack) and more (7pack) waste - It's just not worth it in my opinion!

Besides, costumes are customisations everyone can see, but custom heroes only are visible in parties, and in parties, they are redundant except when its a noobPUG or a underheroed class (Me, Rt).

So far i know, those guys got 2 uses and 1 coolness factor.
* Prophecies+Factions players can get heroes.
* Unsocial players can use more then 3(2) heroes of one class in their team
+ You can use your own characters in a team (like it has use for me, my favorite classes are melee and ranger, and the current AI would turn them to morons, something i couldn't bare to witness or waste money on).

Saint Scarlet · Mar 18, 2011, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Has it given people an advantage? Yes

Another question perhaps is, How much more of an advantage is it than running dual accounts?

It was designed for cosmetic reasons to make the playerbase happy and in that respect it succeeded. People can now use their own characters instead of the generic heros everyone has.

TBH i'm not entirely sure it has been long enough for the true implications of it to come forth yet so we can only discuss the merits so far.

If it is found to give people an unfair advantage, which i do believe it eventually will, then the problem will need to be addressed. Not alot that Anet can now do to stop it at this point, other than limiting the number of same professions in the party. Personally i would like to see this implemented anyway as i have suggested before(sorry folks but i think that all the gimmick builds are part of what destroyed the partying aspect(along with heros in the 1st place)). Limit it to 2 of each type of profession per party and it would solve any advantage from the mercenary heros people have, but would upset an awful lot of people who can only play gimmick builds (not to mention the outcry from the speed clearers). Or have it so that people can only have the set amount of professions the same that others do i.e. 3N, 3W, 2Rt etc.

TL,DR - Yeah imo it's created an imbalance(between have's and have not's) but in an imbalanced game thats in it's twilight years, do Anet care.

Killed u man · Mar 18, 2011, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Is this really worth discussing?

A 7 mesmer team is only so much faster than a 2 mesmer, splinter, MM, ... team.

Mesmers are overpowered, but so is RoJ, Splinter, SS, Every armor ignoring AoE skill. Almost every skill/effect which does an AoE effect.

What I would be worried about instead is the fact that this might be a premise for GW2, micro transitions with an in-game advantage.

Silverblad3 · Mar 18, 2011, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGizzy

See, I keep hearing comments on par with this... or about the "slippery slope," or how this is "just the beginning of the end of f2p."

This does not equate to milking the customers. Not even close. And how in the hell anyonecan interpret this as some sort of "trend" towards either a) milking customers through microtransactions or b) changing the company philosophy regarding in-game advantages via real world financial transactions, is honestly beyond me.

This is not greed, this is not a trend towards milking, this is not a change in the company philosophy.... the sky is not falling. At most it is a way to satisfy investors while providing something fun & harmless to the community without, in fact, going against the developers' philosophy regarding BOTH microtransactions AND in-game advantages.

The cost of the items is milking the customer base, if it was actual real content then sure most folks would be happy. No one here is saying they do not deserve a living or that the live team want to show they can generate revenue. Anet is certainly not as bad as other developers but they are on the border and one wonders when that border will be crossed, because they will continue to do this. It is part of their business plan and hell, I understand the importance of being a revenue generating business unit, but value, cosmetics and advantage are all part of the product mix. You need to get it right. Anet have not.

In your opinion it is not considered milking the customer. I lol'd hard when I saw the prices, I can afford it sure, is it value for money? Hell no.

Silver

Captain Bulldozer · Mar 18, 2011, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

1. Advantages are minor
2. Anet needs our charity

I just summed up the pro-Anet side of the argument, right?

I see it a bit differently:

1) Advantages are minor AND purchasable minor advantages already have a precedent in the in-game store.

2) Anet doesn't need our charity. However, any monies anet is able to bring in through micro transactions help to fund GW2 production as well as additional free content updates to GW1. Thus any player interested in seeing these things happen should be, at least, understanding of their need to make money.

As for the anti-merc people, it seems to be basically

1) I have to pay to have the same advantages and disadvantages as people who paid more than me.

2) The price for this minor advantage is too high.

3) Merc heroes blur the lines between cosmetic upgrades and upgrades which actually make the game easier for the player.

Did I get that right?

Deadfalk · Mar 18, 2011, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

I see it a bit differently:

1) Advantages are minor AND purchasable minor advantages already have a precedent in the in-game store.

2) Anet doesn't need our charity. However, any monies anet is able to bring in through micro transactions help to fund GW2 production as well as additional free content updates to GW1. Thus any player interested in seeing these things happen should be, at least, understanding of their need to make money.

As for the anti-merc people, it seems to be basically

1) I have to pay to have the same advantages and disadvantages as people who paid more than me.

2) The price for this minor advantage is too high.

3) Merc heroes blur the lines between cosmetic upgrades and upgrades which actually make the game easier for the player.

Did I get that right?

I think those 3 are the three different types of anti-mercs (, and im majorily a #2), so yeah, you're right.

Point is that i didn't pay for any cash shop item, why? 2 reasons;
1. i like to physically see my product, which is why i got no problem buying campaigns, but i do have buying the bonus pack.
2. secondly, i do not want to pay for something not adding anything besides cosmetics - examples include the BMP, costumes (yeah...), and now also the Mercheroes (for one its price/use is overexpensive, and besides of the minor to nulled advantage, its purely cosmetic, and hey, 7(8) of the same profession is boring :P)

Maver1ck87 · Mar 18, 2011, 01:29 PM // 13:29

To have a concise and clear jumping-off point, here are a few questions:
What kind of impact have you personally seen or felt stemming from the introduction of Mercenary Heroes?

- None, except some pretty screenshots of people and their heroes all wearing the same colour!

Do you consider the introduction of Mercenary Heroes to be an unfair game advantage for those with excess real-life money or an aesthetic fan-service that benefits many of the game's players (or both)? Explain.

- No, what creates more of an unfair advantage is intelligence. Seriously, the only area unable to be completed with 7 heroes really is UW (havent yet tried urgoz and the deep but whatever). This is not limited by builds but by the necessity to split at certain moments during quests. Maybe a few people have completed but for all aside from this with the BASIC heroes you can complete anywhere in the game that you want. Look through the thread.... necros, mesmers and rts are OPed! 3 Necros, 2 Mesmers, 2 Rts <- that adds up to 7!!!!! THATS HOW MANY HEROES WE ARE ALLOWED ZOMG! With these you can complete FoW, DoA, Slavers, ALL dungeons etc.... In terms of speed, that will more be determined by what primary class you run, play style and safety vs speed decisions and NOT by if your lucky enough to have a 4th necro or 3rd rt.

Are teams consisting of 7 heroes of the same profession consistent with the game's themes and/or felt values? Why or why not?

- No, teams consisting of 7 heroes are against the theme of a massive MULTIPLAYER orpg. Whether they are same profession or not who cares. HOWEVER, imo people should be given the freedom to really do what they like, I love the 7 hero update, it allows me to do a vq over a few hours while i afk from time to time to do work or whatever. If people want to run with 7 necros, thats fine by me, let them have their fun! <- its a game after all NOT a competition (THIS IS PVE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT after all, if u wanna compete go PvP).

Summary: game = fun, 7 heroes = freedom = fun, merc heroes = fun for people who want to spend the money on them. As we established fun = game therefore it is in keeping with game values!

Do you believe that this is a "trend" that the Live Team and Anet may continue to follow in the future? In your opinion, is that a good or bad thing?

- You seen the 1/2 yearly costumes etc? ANET are a business, they need money, they sell stuff for money, we buy it! Thats called basic economics. Personally, I don't buy it! I have no objection as long as the cost never becomes obligatory!

Profit is obviously always a concern for any for-profit business. However, over the years many game companies have added features to games specifically for the benefit of their fans, whether for monetary gain or not. What do you believe is the primary motivation for the addition of Mercenary Heroes - profit, fan service, or a mixture of both?

- Profit <-

Dear Op,
You seem pretty pissed at this update (u mentioned it somewhere that this merc heroes annoys ya). Im guessing you <3 PvE and take it all very seriously and hence this post! Bet your excited about winds of change and further updates! Remember, if you want further updates, they need to program them, that requires staff, staff require money or they dont work selling stuff makes money! Anything they try to sell to us I see as a GOOD thing, I dont buy it, but I see people who do, that makes ANET money and will allow them to keep making updates which I enjoy for free!

Mav

Summary: Profit is GOOD not BAD!

Does the addition of Mercenary Heroes change your opinion on the direction of the future of the company; namely - Guild Wars 2? If so, in a positive or negative way?

You want us to say a negative way, but tbh, I look at it positively! THEY ARE MAKING CHANGES! the game was stagnant and boring, these updates have actually livened it up again, made people talk about it etc.... As far as them making money, I'm glad, they need to be paid if they gonna make more updates! <- and more updates is what I want!

People will always complain! Its a game remember, go and have fun, stop whining!!!!

chessyang · Mar 18, 2011, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

What kind of impact have you personally seen or felt stemming from the introduction of Mercenary Heroes?

What i have felt to this day is nothing. From day one of my travels and adventures of Guild Wars I've always used them. Yeah i wiped a few hundred times but that is the way i play. In game i do not see chatter about it. I do not hang out in town looking for people to talk to because i'm busy playing the game. What I’m saying is i'm playing the game with friends and not worried about these details. 7 of me or 0 of me. I just play the game.

Quote:

Do you consider the introduction of Mercenary Heroes ......

No sir. I only see it as an aesthetic. I'm not sure what to say. I've always just played the game and not worry about finishing some HIGH end area faster then last week or some screen shot i see on guru. To me "getting it done" is "getting it done". Owning some weapon or stack so of ectos mean nothing. It does the same damage and one day ecots will be worthless.

Quote:

Are teams consisting of 7 heroes .....

i guess the answer your looking for is NO. right? I mean the game came out when people had to play one of the holy trintry. Tank, DPS , Healer(is that right?) New year and new people mean new way of thinking the game and making it better.

Quote:

Do you believe that this is a "trend" that ......

Nope not a bad thing at all. I have money and want to spend it. If they want my money they better keep doing stuff.

Quote:

Profit is obviously always a concern for any for-profit business.

A mix of both but I believe more of a profit. Anet is showing NCsoft "look XXX people paid for these latest thing so let's hire X people to help the staff for X more year/month." that is the way i look at it.

Quote:

Does the addition of Mercenary Heroes change your .....

Nope people/companies need to make a buck and this is how they are doing it.

KJ these are just my thoughts and remarks as you asked. Please do not take anything i said personal. If it seem that way I am sorry. It's my point of view from the way I play the game. I'm one of them "Show them how you feel with your Money and not your mouth." But thanks for this. I know the TK read these forums and want our feedback as players. I like the options of the people who respond with real answer and not one liners. I also see you post/remarks on the wiki and how vocal you are on the wiki. All in all I'll pay for whatever (YES even a new class) I like and keep chucking along till i see something better.

Plus i'm just filling in my game time till Diablo 3. I"m bored of GW and these Mech heroes are fun. Game is six years old right? I'm still finding thing here and there to do but for how much longer? Gotten pretty far in UW and Fow by my self/team. So if Anet wants my money they better keep my busy and find more stuff away from Diablo 3 or my money is going to Blizzard.

*Edit AKA Last rant* I pay 500 dollar or something to change the flipping title screen. See my sig. Also a grand or more for some sort of Market Place.

Captain Bulldozer · Mar 18, 2011, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

I guess what I'm trying to suggest is difficult for me to word because I'm not really on this side of the fence.

I think the perspective is that when you purchase a game, you're receiving content. That content includes new professions, new skills, new weapon skins, new areas, new challenges, new heroes, etc. And a big difference is that it can be sold in a store. You can physically go and buy a copy of "Factions". You can't buy a copy of "Mercenary Heroes". See what I mean?

Although it is an "advantage" to own an expansion, that's not the selling point and obviously not the intent. The selling point of these heroes seems to be "cosmetic" and "advantageous". When you sell something that enables a person to do elite content by his or her self, that seems like a different issue.

But again, this is me trying to clarify something that I don't necessarily buy into.

Content is difficult to define. Anet periodically releases new "content" which does not consist of new skins, skills, heroes, areas, etc. As for a new "challenge" that's probably open to debate, but I take that what you're trying to say is more along the lines of "new stuff to do in game." Trying to equate the idea of new content and a new retail product is only going to run into problems. For example, who among us would suggest that the BMP was not a form of new content? And yet, you could never physically buy it in a store. The same could be said for the fire imp upgrade to the GotY edition. In fact, if you bought the GotY edition retail, you actually had to pay EXTRA to get the fire imp, unlike someone who bought it in the online store. The modern economy has, as we all know, been vastly changed by the electronic frontier. Even in other sectors, its quite common to buy things in an electronic form that are not available physically for purchase (e-books are a great example, as are unreleased streaming media contents).

The selling point of a campaign is really that it gives you "new stuff to do" and that description is deliberately vague. As I see it, the biggest selling point of the merc heroes is that it allows for more easy party creation in ways that would have been difficult previously... difficult meaning you may have needed another human to help you. However, since 7 heroes became available independently of merc heroes, we can take from this that anet is allowing players to play solo if they choose, something which has always been a major selling point of Guild Wars over other online RPGs, at least in my opinion. Merc heroes don't allow you to do every area of the game solo, the 7-heroes update does that. Merc heroes give the player more customization of solo play. Time will show if that is really a major advantage or not, but so far I think the general consensus is that it's not. I might even go so far as to say that the fire imp gives a greater advantage in pre-searing than merc heroes do in post, as it effectively allows you to double your party size... but that's an issue which probably requires more thought.

fricker · Mar 18, 2011, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dafad Dhu

Was there an uproar when the option to purchase storage was released?

Yes it was, you must be new here...

Firebaall · Mar 18, 2011, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Not a big deal at all. Just a lot of moaning over a non issue.

There's no real difference that I'm seeing from me using two accounts and hero dumping on the first. I've been doing that since heroes were introduced. I bought the 8 merc package, and I'm enjoying the custom team alot.

Stop whinning, and go play the game.

Jeydra · Mar 18, 2011, 02:41 PM // 14:41

I've not felt any impact personally from the introduction of Mercenary Heroes. Well, to a very small extent, I've seen people clear DoA HM in top-notch speed with Mercenary Heroes, but that's it.

No I do not consider Mercenary Heroes as an unfair game advantage for money. Money can already buy you a game advantage, e.g. a player without EotN is way weaker than a player with it.

I see nothing wrong with having 7 heroes of the same profession.

I don't think this is a trend that the Live Team and ANet might follow, because it's only been one update. I also don't really care, so it's not a good thing or bad thing to me.

I think the primary motivation for the addition of mercenaries is profit.

No the addition of mercenary heroes do not change my opinion of the future of the company.

Painbringer · Mar 18, 2011, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Sorry read this one wrong and posted something stupid. I will exit the discussion with something stupider

"Nothing says E-Peen like having a set of 8 characters in Obsidian waving Crystallines The perfect audience for it as well"

AngelWJedi · Mar 18, 2011, 03:32 PM // 15:32

i never bought merc heros because

a) cant afford more then one and it seems to only be useful if you buy 3 or more.

b) normal heros do the same work

c) if i wanted to run more then 3 messie ie.-me+2 heros i would have to make and grind up to lvl 20 so not worth it

d) and finally i only play some of my chars now so basically i wouldnt use them as merc heroes. ie- my derv lols even thought she has 26 max titles cba to play her again.

but it wouldve been nice if they did what they did with the free/buy panes to the merc heros. let us have one free and pay for more.

HawkofStorms · Mar 18, 2011, 03:53 PM // 15:53

7 heroes is more OP then mercenary heroes.

Obviously, if you were still limited to 3 heroes, mercenary would be no better then regular heroes. But the point is, 7 OP bars that synergy well together, no matter what profession, destroys PvE.

I don't care about mercenaries. The only person I've seen who bought mercenary heroes uses such builds as "fast casting Me/N minion master." I do fine enough rolling over PvE with SAB way necros + panic mesmer + prot monk + rupt ranger. Having 7 mesmers would be no better. What am I going to do, overspike the monsters even more? Whoop de do.

MithranArkanere · Mar 18, 2011, 06:08 PM // 18:08

It's not very different to the advantages an extra campaign gives.
They are a one-time purchase. You are not paying for some VIP fee, or for items that give more power.

Most people rarely bring more than 3 heroes of the same profession, excepting necromancers, so it's not such a big deal.

Skyy High · Mar 18, 2011, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Stumme seems well aware of both sides of the issue, so I don't know what else I can say, beyond that mercenary heroes really are the limit of what I had expected to see in the in-game store. Of course, I really can't, right now, formulate a coherent argument for why there is a difference between paying for EotN and getting access to heroes, and simply paying for mercenary heroes, except that the mercenary heroes are horribly overpriced in comparison. If the things were more reasonably priced - along the lines of what we'd be expecting to pay for a single feature that'd we'd see in a full expansion - I think there'd be a lot less complaining. Maybe not. Maybe introducing "GW Cash" so they can profitably sell us things that individually cost less than $10 would do more harm than good. Actually, that'd be a cool poll...

Just...be careful guys. Honestly, selling a full new profession would probably not be the best of ideas. Yes, people pay for professions when they buy expansions, but that's not the only reason they buy expansions. Many people buy them for the new skills, or the new areas to explore, or the story, and the professions come as just a bonus to that. That means that those people aren't going to feel the need to buy the new profession immediately, but then they'll feel the effect of other people being able to do things that they can't. It's like selling new skills for the professions that we have; even if you balanced them so they're pretty much equal in power to stuff we already have, it'd still be grating to know that your options are limited compared to someone else that's shelled out extra money just for those skills. It's a psychological thing; we'll pay for a great big bundle of stuff, and we're fine if someone else doesn't pay for that bunch of stuff even if that means there's a huge disparity between us, but God forbid you charge us for a little thing that causes a little disparity.

And really, maybe that's what's happened here. By breaking the components of an expansion apart and charging for them individually, you make people really think about what exactly they're paying for, as opposed to "oh yeah, $50 for all this new stuff, great!" And, again, it doesn't help that a full set of mercs costs the same as a full expansion.