Curse

Xiaquin · Mar 26, 2011, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by SongOf

Anet please read this carefully:
A LOT of players go to Greater Temple of Balthazar during their down time, even just to chat or organize inventory. 'Close' GToB (make accessible by NPC only, not map) to force people into Embark Beach- which makes more sense because it has every merchant related NPC anyway. This will at least expose more people looking for something to do to those that would like help.

GtoB is fine and Zaishen quest parties form on location.

Even then, PuGs are still off-putting. Wait 5-10 minutes for a group that isn't 6/8 LF heals and sit around once yours becomes 6/8 LF monks for an eternity.

Apparently heroes can keep each other and the player alive, but not most pugs. I wonder where the problem is...

Legion Magnus · Mar 26, 2011, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krill

Circa 2005 you literally could not finish the game using an all hench party; at least a few parts had to be done /w human teammates.

Literally untrue, I, and I suspect others, completed Prophecies and the other campaigns with H/H only, except where required by the game (i.e. Vizunah Square). I have also subsequently PUGged some but generally found them to be unpleasant experiences, usually due to one or two immature players ruining the fun for others.

It was a personal choice (and occasionally a challenge) to complete the game with H/H only, but I believe a game like GW should offer fun choices to it's customers and not force you to play only one way. If some people prefer to PUG - great, but IMO they should not advocate forcing others to play via their preferred method (not that Krill was, but I've seen others who have). Some PUGs were fun, but I don't believe they should ever be required to play.

SongOf · Mar 26, 2011, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

GtoB is fine and Zaishen quest parties form on location.

I'm not saying GtoB is for forming Zaishen quest parties, it never was, and in fact in my very first sentence I said the opposite. People that are looking for something to do/reorganizing after a mission are in GtoB, while where they should be placed is Embark Beach.

The idea is to condense where players are spending thier downtime. Embark Beach wasn't designed around Zaishen quests, it's for people who need regular missions but are never seen because those locations offer no reason to return once you beat them. Exposing them to as many people as possible is the only way EB will be useful.

pingu666 · Mar 27, 2011, 12:58 AM // 00:58

pugs would be much better if a afker or leaver was replaced by a npc, yesterdays vanq we had someone disapear within 5 mins, so we hadto go slower and more carefully, and one guy was saying "its too slow" and would aggro stuff when the team was all spread out, and that didnt go well. then he quit halfway through and that was pretty much the team done :/

most pugs ive been with recently have been really good however

FoxBat · Mar 27, 2011, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legion Magnus

Literally untrue, I, and I suspect others, completed Prophecies and the other campaigns with H/H only, except where required by the game (i.e. Vizunah Square).

You sure of the difference between an "H/H" and a hench party?

All of prophecies and factions was doable with pure henches where those were allowed, (even TotPK) although some parts got very annoying. This isn't too surprising considering it's normal mode, which you can definitely beat with pure henchies in nightfall and eotn as well. Hard mode is a different story, but hey we didn't have hard mode back then.

UnChosen · Mar 27, 2011, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilebill

Embark Beach could support PUGs or Guild groups better if quest rewards were doubled for groups not including heroes or hench. No idea how hard that would be to program.

To be blunt about it, going PUG is second best for most of us. We are not going to group with other players without some incentive. Better triple those rewards!

I've been saying this ever since 3 heroes. It isn't about catering to a special group, its about eliminating the blatant advantage that Heros teams have by not having to wait in an outpost.

Even if human parties could have 8 PvE skills heroes would still be faster most of the time, simply because they're already 3/4th of the way through a mission by the time the human group forms and all skills are checked...etc.

novawhiz · Mar 27, 2011, 02:14 AM // 02:14

If anet cared about people playing general pve together, they wouldnt have given us (seven) heroes, op pve-only skills, op normal skills, cons, etc,etc.

Xiaquin · Mar 27, 2011, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

I've been saying this ever since 3 heroes. It isn't about catering to a special group, its about eliminating the blatant advantage that Heros teams have by not having to wait in an outpost.

There's always been a shortage of player healers and, if my latest attempts at pugging were any indication, still an abundance of players not equipped to run but one build. Increasing the demand won't change how we want to play and it shouldn't.

UnChosen · Mar 27, 2011, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

There's always been a shortage of player healers and, if my latest attempts at pugging were any indication, still an abundance of players not equipped to run but one build. Increasing the demand won't change how we want to play and it shouldn't.

Well...duh. Humans need to buy all the skills for every single one of their characters and for every build they probably need to have a separate armor pieces (unless they want to waste perfect salvage kits). Then they have to get all their armor pieces infused so they won't get crushed in prophecies by mursaats. Another built in advantage of heroes vs humans.

Give all pugs 1000K...see how many human monks show up :P

I personally don't believe all of the "I'm anti-social" argument. Just go into ToA for the ultimate proof. Once there is enough incentives for actually grouping (ex. Speed Clear), an area immediately gets filled to the max. The point is that people who avoid grouping for the sake of avoiding pug is a minority...the REAL issue is that most people are avoiding grouping for the sake of efficiency.

Rites · Mar 27, 2011, 05:03 AM // 05:03

The biggest mistake was creating embark beach AND enabling 7 heroes. they should have stuck with either one or the other

jimbo32 · Mar 27, 2011, 05:33 AM // 05:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

(Snipped)...The point is that people who avoid grouping for the sake of avoiding pug is a minority...the REAL issue is that most people are avoiding grouping for the sake of efficiency.

No offense, but that's a steaming pile of bullshit.

There's one piece of info that all the PuG-advocates seem to miss: There's a large segment of the GW population who would prefer not to play with strangers. Yet I see ideas popping up in this thread about possible ways to encourage (ie: essentially force) people into PuG'ing more often.

For every good PuG, it seems like there's at least three awful ones - whether it's some idiot who Kilroys and completely screws up every single pull, or a moron who griefs the rest of the team when he's the one being a nitwit, or a player who bails in the middle of a dungeon. Or whatever. The fact is that it seems like there's a disturbingly high number of GW players who have IQ's in the single digits.

It isn't about efficiency and it isn't about being anti-social. It's about preferring to play with actual friends rather than strangers. Friends and heroes are known quantities, and while I've met some very nice people through GW, I've also encountered just as many unpleasant folks. I'd prefer to avoid the latter, so I also avoid PuGs.

There's nothing wrong with people having different play preferences. People who prefer not to PuG shouldn't be punished or resented for it, and the same is true for those who enjoy picking up a group for zmissions or whatever. If you're a player who would prefer GW'ing with seven other humans, maybe you should look for a large PvE guild that organizes daily groups for zaishen quests and title hunting. Otherwise, Embark Beach is all you've got and (imo) it's an improvement over what we had before.

aelesia · Mar 27, 2011, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legion Magnus

Literally untrue, I, and I suspect others, completed Prophecies and the other campaigns with H/H only, except where required by the game (i.e. Vizunah Square). I have also subsequently PUGged some but generally found them to be unpleasant experiences, usually due to one or two immature players ruining the fun for others.

Did you play back in 2005? Back then it was really hard to finish a mission with just henchmen in your team. It certainly wasn't impossible, but you had to be an extremely good player to do it. Most groups wouldn't even start a normal mission if they didn't have a full group of active players, because henchmen were far inferior to real players.

Xiaquin · Mar 27, 2011, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

the REAL issue is that most people are avoiding grouping for the sake of efficiency.

You still kind of proved the case against using them. My point was that people who are willing to pug would pug more if parties filled without the forced wait for healers. There's no changing that or human efficiency, so the idea is busted technically before its merits are examined, which jimbo has done.

And if you were to look at PuGs pre-heroes (heck, try pre-Factions) you'd see that even then they were extremely inconsistent even before the game was "dumbed down". I tried constantly to go with henchmen and only resorted to PuG when difficulty forced it.

Rites · Mar 28, 2011, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by aelesia

Did you play back in 2005? Back then it was really hard to finish a mission with just henchmen in your team. It certainly wasn't impossible, but you had to be an extremely good player to do it.

actually it was because of those experiences that I learned to play better. henchmen AI might not be the best, but at least it is more predictable than most PUGs

jray14 · Mar 28, 2011, 08:25 PM // 20:25

If ANet does the following, then I'll start using EB for more than just the ZV sign:

1. Make the zCoin givers/changers and rune traders as accessible as in GToB.

2. Scale rewards and uncommon drops with number of players in group.

BuD · Mar 28, 2011, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by jray14

If ANet does the following, then I'll start using EB for more than just the ZV sign:

1. Make the zCoin givers/changers and rune traders as accessible as in GToB.

2. Scale rewards and uncommon drops with number of players in group.

1. Has already been done. You can exchange you copper coins for silver & gold ones there. There is a rune trader in each of the 3 different campaign areas.

Not exactly sure what youre getting at in #2...loot scaling removed?

Mashiyu · Mar 29, 2011, 12:10 AM // 00:10

#2 isn't about removing loot scaling - it's about adjusting loot scaling so that each player in a full player group can expect better loot than a player in a H/H group

pingu666 · Mar 29, 2011, 12:14 AM // 00:14

higher chance of "good" items with a player group i think...

Cuilan · Mar 29, 2011, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbo32

There's one piece of info that all the PuG-advocates seem to miss: There's a large segment of the GW population who would prefer not to play with strangers. Yet I see ideas popping up in this thread about possible ways to encourage (ie: essentially force) people into PuG'ing more often.

It's not right to support the encouragement of hero'ing either then. It's natural for players to want their way of playing healthy. Heroes are always there, but things would need improvement much like how PvP is supposedly dying.

[狼]Izzie[虎] · Mar 29, 2011, 03:06 AM // 03:06

The only reason I'm not in Embark Beach looking for a group is because I don't need any missions or what not done. If I were still going for the Guardian titles or whatever you would def. see me there!