Curse

My New Name · Mar 10, 2011, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok

Still, "the embark beach build" has a better tone than "the 7 hero parties build"...

Nothing has a better tone than 7 hero parties build ^^

Don Zardeone · Mar 11, 2011, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Random observation:

Whenever I happen to be in EB, there's some noodle asking people how he can get back to where he was.
This means there are large amounts of people who don't know how to map travel.

thedukesd · Mar 11, 2011, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Let's see:
- missing zc sign in embark forcing me to go temple to take it (i take all of them zm,zb,zv,zc i do them and then i get all the rewards at once) (missing zv sign in temple so if u want to take zv you have to go embark)
- large distances between npc that allow you to travel to mission outpost (it's actually faster to map travel 2 times and add 2-4 hero then to go in embark from some locations where you spawn to the npc that allow u to go to the mission outpost u want)
- there is no way to travel to non-mission outposts from embark
- lack of option to set nm/hm in party

Bad idea to implement a place were people should group to do missions and to allow people to have 7 heros in party. Result is what it's happening now in embark: if someone want to find people to do a party can't (even for zm people group in the zm outpost and not in embark...).

Quantum Duck · Mar 11, 2011, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Zardeone

Whenever I happen to be in EB, there's some noodle asking people how he can get back to where he was.
This means there are large amounts of people who don't know how to map travel.

You can get to EB without having unlocked boat travel. Thus people in EB might not have other outposts on the map.

Don Zardeone · Mar 11, 2011, 05:58 AM // 05:58

my second account nooblet chars can't go to embark beach.. or .. aaahhhhhhh

that explains it

beginners will likely watch cinematics so imo there should be one that explains it

anyway, there's absolutely nothing in party search right now and I want to help a random noodle destroy the world :/

GrimWizard · Mar 11, 2011, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGizzy

Why the need to dictate how someone else is supposed to play the game? Why force someone into either playing the way you prefer (more people, less h/h) or have them not play at all?

This is not a live and let live scenario. People who choose to not use PUGs, for whatever reason, have a direct negative impact on the ability of other people to find PUGs, especially skilled PUGs. That is the simple fact. It's not personal it's just business.

Of course, this discussion is a mute point with the 7 hero update. Looks like Anet finally admitted that the right way to play the game was solo after all. I guess that means all the people who enjoyed PUGs where doing it wrong, sucks to be them....

Missing HB · Mar 11, 2011, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedukesd

Let's see:
- missing zc sign in embark forcing me to go temple to take it (i take all of them zm,zb,zv,zc i do them and then i get all the rewards at once) (missing zv sign in temple so if u want to take zv you have to go embark)
- large distances between npc that allow you to travel to mission outpost (it's actually faster to map travel 2 times and add 2-4 hero then to go in embark from some locations where you spawn to the npc that allow u to go to the mission outpost u want)
- there is no way to travel to non-mission outposts from embark
- lack of option to set nm/hm in party

Bad idea to implement a place were people should group to do missions and to allow people to have 7 heros in party. Result is what it's happening now in embark: if someone want to find people to do a party can't (even for zm people group in the zm outpost and not in embark...).

You forgot to add that EB doesn't lead to elite missions nor to PvP outposts such as Codex... That kind of job they did is Fast Done Bad Done tbh...

Moonstalker · Mar 11, 2011, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

You forgot to add that EB doesn't lead to elite missions nor to PvP outposts such as Codex... That kind of job they did is Fast Done Bad Done tbh...

Why would you need to zone to a PvP place from EB when you just open your map and it's right there? That's faster than walking to an NPC anyway.

Zahr Dalsk · Mar 11, 2011, 09:49 AM // 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok

Still, "the embark beach build" has a better tone than "the 7 hero parties build"...

7 Hero Party sounds glorious.

Lady Aranza · Mar 11, 2011, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimWizard

This is not a live and let live scenario. People who choose to not use PUGs, for whatever reason, have a direct negative impact on the ability of other people to find PUGs, especially skilled PUGs. That is the simple fact. It's not personal it's just business.

You misspelled "my opinion".

Lasai · Mar 11, 2011, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimWizard

This is not a live and let live scenario. People who choose to not use PUGs, for whatever reason, have a direct negative impact on the ability of other people to find PUGs, especially skilled PUGs. That is the simple fact. It's not personal it's just business.

Of course, this discussion is a mute point with the 7 hero update. Looks like Anet finally admitted that the right way to play the game was solo after all. I guess that means all the people who enjoyed PUGs where doing it wrong, sucks to be them....

Being forced to group is declining in popularity throughout the entire industry. You cannot blame other people for simply making a gamestyle choice. Gaming is more and more geared to the casual player, and the bulk of those seem to prefer a solo option, for many reasons.

It is a trend you can't fight. I, personally, am glad to see forced grouping falling out of favor. It is a simple choice now.. you can still PUG.. but, it is a choice.. you just lost the pool of people pugging because they HAD TO.

I finished HOS today in far less time than I would have taken just trying to explain to a pug why I don't use kegs. no probs, no deaths, and my heros did exactly what I wanted.

Oh and I love Embark. I go there to put my hero groups together, set up things, and then travel with my group intact.

Missing HB · Mar 11, 2011, 11:59 AM // 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonstalker

Why would you need to zone to a PvP place from EB when you just open your map and it's right there? That's faster than walking to an NPC anyway.

Because merging all into 1 district might help to form teams for HA / GvG or Codex....
You know , if you can VISUALLY see that people are looking for group in GvG or codex , then they will know they can get opponent and won't waste 1 hour w/o getting anything

UnChosen · Mar 11, 2011, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasai

Being forced to group is declining in popularity throughout the entire industry. You cannot blame other people for simply making a gamestyle choice. Gaming is more and more geared to the casual player, and the bulk of those seem to prefer a solo option, for many reasons.

It is a trend you can't fight. I, personally, am glad to see forced grouping falling out of favor. It is a simple choice now.. you can still PUG.. but, it is a choice.. you just lost the pool of people pugging because they HAD TO.

I finished HOS today in far less time than I would have taken just trying to explain to a pug why I don't use kegs. no probs, no deaths, and my heros did exactly what I wanted.

Oh and I love Embark. I go there to put my hero groups together, set up things, and then travel with my group intact.

Its not much of a choice when I get a 15 minute advantage by using heroes simply because I don't have to spend time forming a group...its not an equal competition at all. All the advantage of having PvE skills is completely nullified by human groups not having "perfect" synergy...or if they spend the effort tweaking builds to have synergy, they STILL lost the advantage by having to spend even more time.

The only exceptions are areas where humans can exploit splitting mechanics (speed clears) and areas that are designed around tanking gimmicks (DoA) or areas with a lot of AoE, because that's the only significant weakness of AI.

In a normal situation:

100% Perfect guild groups > Synergized heroes > Casual guild group > Unsynergized PvX heroes > Good pugs > Random heroes/hench > average pugs > The trash pugs...When it comes to total efficiency, including group formation time.

Pugging right now is as much of a choice as choosing a $100 meal and an identical but free meal. When I'm guaranteed to come out ahead by using heroes most of the time there's no reason for me to group.

Its kinda funny how an online RPG designed around "teams" have stuff that actively discourage multiplayer and has no grouping incentives at all. Meanwhile, Diablo 2, a game designed around single player, actually has a drop bonus for every additional person in the group....go figure.

Lasai · Mar 11, 2011, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

Its kinda funny how an online RPG designed around "teams" have stuff that actively discourage multiplayer and has no grouping incentives at all. Meanwhile, Diablo 2, a game designed around single player, actually has a drop bonus for every additional person in the group....go figure.

Didnt this game launch with NPC henchmen? Designed around teams yes, but human groups.. were always just an option.

You cant prop up the declining popularity of pugs by bribing players to do so. Even hard core group centric games like EQ2, which does give undoubtedly the best gear/loots to groupers, have come up with alternate solo questlines to keep the casual gamers interested and playing and a means to progress.

UnChosen · Mar 11, 2011, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasai

Didnt this game launch with NPC henchmen? Designed around teams yes, but human groups.. were always just an option.

Henchmen were way weaker than heroes. At that time human parties were the one with the massive advantage...which I didn't like either.

Always prefered having 7 heroes WITH some sort of grouping incentives to make up for the group formation time deficit...then its truly about choice without being gimped by choosing one way or another.

Right now,

7 heroes 30 minutes vanquish >>>>>>>>>> 7 humans 20 minute vanquish + 10 minutes group formation time + 5 minutes build tweaking.

Lasai · Mar 11, 2011, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

Henchmen were way weaker than heroes. At that time human parties were the one with the massive advantage...which I didn't like either.

Always prefered having 7 heroes WITH some sort of grouping incentives to make up for the group formation time deficit...then its truly about choice without being gimped by choosing one way or another.

Right now,

7 heroes 30 minutes vanquish >>>>>>>>>> 7 humans 20 minute vanquish + 10 minutes group formation time + 5 minutes build tweaking.

I soloed in Wow, EQ2, AoC and others. Even with no hero/hench available, it was my choice and the choice of many. Solo in those games means solo..and a lot of content is gated. Hench were a popular choice here.. it stands to reason that ANET allowed them to evolve over time into a better version.

I don't, personally, see time as a gimping issue..an inconvenience yes, gimp.. I don't see how.

UnChosen · Mar 11, 2011, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasai

I soloed in Wow, EQ2, AoC and others. Even with no hero/hench available, it was my choice and the choice of many. Solo in those games means solo..and a lot of content is gated. Hench were a popular choice here.. it stands to reason that ANET allowed them to evolve over time into a better version.

I don't, personally, see time as a gimping issue..an inconvenience yes, gimp.. I don't see how.

See the hundreds of posts debating Shadow Form, PvE skills, and speed clears? After the initial completion of the game people take time efficiency and loot way more seriously than you give credit for. I personally don't care all that much but...

I KNOW there is a person that switched from pugging for zaishen quests to heroes simply because it saves them 2 minutes.

MithranArkanere · Mar 11, 2011, 02:09 PM // 14:09

I think that what would make much more probable for people to PUG would be being able to have VOIP.

It's easier to tell the monk "Protective Spirit on me, I'm going in!" than writing it.

Krill · Mar 11, 2011, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasai

Didnt this game launch with NPC henchmen? Designed around teams yes, but human groups.. were always just an option.

They were there as an option but the vast majority of groups only used the monk hench. Circa 2005 you literally could not finish the game using an all hench party; at least a few parts had to be done /w human teammates.

Lasai · Mar 11, 2011, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krill

They were there as an option but the vast majority of groups only used the monk hench. Circa 2005 you literally could not finish the game using an all hench party; at least a few parts had to be done /w human teammates.

What was different? I started with just Proph and completed it with hench, without runs, pre hench update. Did flagging actually make that much difference? Not disputing, just curious why so much harder.