Curse

Voodoo Rage · Apr 17, 2011, 10:11 PM // 22:11

I was looking around on wiki and this forum and there really isn't a lot of good discussion or numbers about the relative power of the Asuran Summons skills. Is it just me, or are these really underrated? I suspect that the average GW player kind of ignores them because of the necessary polymock grind involved to get them. Especially on my ritualist and with reasonable Asuran Rank (I think I'm about 7), the Ruby Djinn that I've been running around with almost never seems to die and for a single PvE skill, I've got essentially an extra party member who is continually setting foes on fire. Really for a fire and forget skill that last for almost a minute, that is pretty nice.

I haven't unlocked the other summons yet but looking at the skill descriptions:

Ice Imp: Nasty AoE snaring and a nice hex primer

Naga Shaman: Knockdowns every 5 seconds if you can provide the weakness (a pretty easy condition to meet)

Mursaat: Armor penetration and weakness (to me seems like the least effective of the summons)

Compared to other "abused" PvE skills, one of these seems like a keeper to me. Anyone have some decent insight or numbers for these skills compared to the effectiveness of some of the other PvE skills that these might end up booting off of a bar?

Timey · Apr 17, 2011, 10:28 PM // 22:28

I use the Djinn summon sometimes on my ritualist, i've not used the others much but at rank 10 he has 15 in fire magic and his immolate can do 75 damage. Usually I use the vanguard assassin support instead as a third pve skill, I like that I can summon him into the middle of a group and they'll waste their initial skills on him, and the skill recharges in 30 seconds instead of 60.

AngelWJedi · Apr 17, 2011, 10:28 PM // 22:28

i dont like them to be honest. and yes half of the hate is because i cant get them i suck at polymock. rest is i rather use a normal summon stone and save that skill slot for a skill not a summons. xD

dasmitchies · Apr 17, 2011, 10:59 PM // 22:59

3 second casting time.

Voodoo Rage · Apr 17, 2011, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelWJedi

i dont like them to be honest. and yes half of the hate is because i cant get them i suck at polymock. rest is i rather use a normal summon stone and save that skill slot for a skill not a summons. xD

You can use both (Asuran Summons and a summoning stone). I just checked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasmitchies

3 second casting time.

But since it lasts for almost a minute you really aren't going to be casting it in the middle of a battle, and again since it is so "fire and forget" the net casting time is going to considerably less than doing something like spamming Necrosis for a minute.

Killed u man · Apr 17, 2011, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Do people really have that much problems with Polymock? I absolutely enjoyed it (I also don't believe I lost once, as it was way too easy) and I kinda wanted more, way more, when I did the last quest.

Lihinel · Apr 18, 2011, 12:13 AM // 00:13

You got to remember that polymock is a game of ping, not of skill.

Chthon · Apr 18, 2011, 12:16 AM // 00:16

By and large they simply do not pack enough punch to justify a PvE skill slot. Especially when the vanguard sin is competing for that slot. While the snare and KD sound nice in theory, the fact that you aren't able to aim or time them takes away a lot of their usefulness. If you want an AOE snare from a PvE skill, use TrypSig. If you want random KDs, use GDW. The only summon I ever used in a build was the djinn in a Fevered Dreams build. Maybe about half the time he set the right guy on fire and added some reasonable DPS. Ultimately I dropped him for more e-management to keep up with the pace that can be managed with 7 heroes.

Dzjudz · Apr 18, 2011, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Biggest reason I don't use one is the 3 second cast time. Yes you can do it outside of battle or anticipate a death by casting ahead etc, but I don't like standing still for 3 seconds that often

. Also, my PvE slots are usually already filled with other skills.

IronSheik · Apr 18, 2011, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Other skills are better.

Ebon sin beats it by far.
Air of superiority, free recharges mid battle
Great dwarf weapon, +20 Damage per hit+KDs from any profession
Ebon Wards, HSR/+15 armor ignoring damage per hit
Finish Him!, Basically an instant kill at -50% health

If I can fit a 3s casting time skill on my bar, I can most definitely use one of the better ones listed above

Kojima · Apr 18, 2011, 02:28 AM // 02:28

If the skill bar is already filled and working well, it does not really make sense to have that skill in. Personally, I do not really like it.

Lasai · Apr 18, 2011, 02:30 AM // 02:30

No skill is worth wasting time playing psuedo pokemon.

Daesu · Apr 18, 2011, 04:46 AM // 04:46

The asuran summons are nice. The differences between them and a summoning stone is that you can have more than one per team and you can keep casting them when they die.

Can you imagine traveling with a team of 8 asuran summons assuming you have a full human team (which are almost extinct nowadays)? Not only do they deal damage, they take damage also.

I use them in my 2 players/6 heroes team on my passive character as a cast-and-forget skill, because it is not easy to be playing 2 active characters at the same time.

Voodoo Rage · Apr 18, 2011, 05:01 AM // 05:01

I'm curious, other than an AP build, why the Ebon Sin would supercede an Asuran Summons. I think you are going to get more bang for your buck from the Summons rather than the sin that lasts like, what 10 seconds, and then have a significant recharge after that.

AndrewSX · Apr 18, 2011, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

Other skills are better.

Ebon sin beats it by far.
Air of superiority, free recharges mid battle
Great dwarf weapon, +20 Damage per hit+KDs from any profession
Ebon Wards, HSR/+15 armor ignoring damage per hit
Finish Him!, Basically an instant kill at -50% health

If I can fit a 3s casting time skill on my bar, I can most definitely use one of the better ones listed above

This. PvE skills are limited to 3, and for some profs you should choose them wisely(read:main ele dmg output as AP). Asura summon is inferior to most of the other pve skills(and he haven't listed Kurz/lux and SS ones.....CoP, SY will never be dropped for an asura summon).

In some niche situations they're useful(if u don't know how to fill the bar of a FD mez, the djin is a good choice afterall) but that's all.

Quote:

I'm curious, other than an AP build, why the Ebon Sin would supercede an Asuran Summons. I think you are going to get more bang for your buck from the Summons rather than the sin that lasts like, what 10 seconds, and then have a significant recharge after that.

The point of the EVAS is that he shadowsteps to meele range. This means that he will eat much more dmg compared to the casters naga/imp/mursaat/djinn. Also, he can trigger physical stuff like mop/barbs.
And is cooler.

NerfHerder · Apr 18, 2011, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage

I'm curious, other than an AP build, why the Ebon Sin would supercede an Asuran Summons. I think you are going to get more bang for your buck from the Summons rather than the sin that lasts like, what 10 seconds, and then have a significant recharge after that.

EVAS provides an extra frontline tank thats more controllabe than the Asura Summons to help draw aggro, and if you meet the rediculously easy requirement of a condition or hex, you get a KD and two unblockable and powerful dagger skills. They supply more damage faster than any of the Asura Summons. Even though you only have EVAS half the time, it still does more damage. Also, Physical > Ele damage, which also triggers things like MoP and Barbs. This makes EVAS much more desireable when you want to take out a healer or high damage dealer.

Just out of Asuran skills alone I would rather have Pain Inverter or Technobabble over a Summon.

Although just for lols I would like to take a full group of real players with Asura Summons and echo'd EVAS. Probably not the most effective, but sounds like fun.

LifeInfusion · Apr 18, 2011, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Ice imp is what I use when I actually use a summon, especially on ele...

Mursaat doesn't do anything special; immolate is pretty lame in anywhere HM; Stoning is sad unless you pack weakness, and the Naga manages to get a lucky hit.

Unlike Vanguard sin support, you need to invest 3s to cast and you can only have one making it bad for AP bars. If your summon dies you have 60Cooldown so unless you glyph of swifrness there's really no strength in using them except using Ice imp to proc snow storm or some other DOT that doesn't involve AP (i.e. Triple heats, which is not stronger than AP earth).

Daesu · Apr 18, 2011, 01:51 PM // 13:51

I think EVAS generally dishes out more damage over a period of time than asuran summons. But does the EVAS really dishes out more damage overall than the Ruby Djinn, without barbs and MoP? I doubt that because, without AP, the EVAS has a 15s down time at best, if you are not targeting charrs. While the asuran summon can be kept up at all times, at max rank, provided it lasts its full lifespan of 60s.

I also doubt the EVAS can take as much damage as an asuran summon because they last shorter than 15s unless you are targeting charrs. Also if you are a rit, the asuran summons would be affected by your spawning power attribute, but not the EVAS.

With AP however, I would choose EVAS over an asuran summon. But without AP, MoP or arcane echo, an asuran summon may be better.

Barbs is a 10e 2s cast time hex on only 1 target, generally not worth bringing. For those complaining about the 3s cast of asuran summon, you have your 2s from barbs and 1s from EVAS so you are already investing at least 3s cast time on ONE target if you use barbs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

Although just for lols I would like to take a full group of real players with Asura Summons and echo'd EVAS. Probably not the most effective, but sounds like fun.

You would be surprised how OP summons are in this game.

X-Plosiv · Apr 18, 2011, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Well, I prefer EVAS for getting at 1 enemy fast.

When I do FOW NM, I prefer to cast EVAS to 1 monk because he can kill it fast without help while I focus on others.

MithranArkanere · Apr 18, 2011, 03:27 PM // 15:27

When you bring lots of AoE skills, the Ice Imp comes in handy. Since he only has one skill, it spams it as much as it cans, and all it snergy is focused on that one skill, so it will cast it as soon as it recharges.

That way you can keep lots of enemies snared without having to waste points in water magic.