Curse

Verene · Mar 23, 2011, 05:58 PM // 17:58

If you're so insistent on sticking with the "bots = drunk drivers" analogy...if anything, it's more like they installed a stoplight at the start of a curvy road.

Milennin · Mar 23, 2011, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Even with a nerf, people will always find ways around it. Or find new and better places. As long as it stops the bots it's fine by me. I never liked farming anyway. Promotes grindy gameplay.

*lemming* · Mar 23, 2011, 07:58 PM // 19:58

It'd be fine as long as they're not using it as an excuse to get out of actually having to enforce their EULA, which is something I can definitely see them doing.

Lanier · Mar 23, 2011, 09:20 PM // 21:20

stupid fix... Anet should target bots specifically rather than kill the farm for everyone. If bots in PvE are such a big deal anyway, don't penalize the rest of the playerbase in the process. I guess I'v got my FoW armor now anyway, but it is disappointing to see my farm nerfed on the pretext of getting rid of bots... especially since this is PvE and many of us PvEers don't care about bots in PvE anyway.

Apok · Mar 23, 2011, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Just so you guys know, bots weren't the only ones abusing this broken farm. It was so easy to get ectos, it HAD to get fixed for everyone.

Karate Jesus · Mar 23, 2011, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok

Just so you guys know, bots weren't the only ones abusing this broken farm. It was so easy to get ectos, it HAD to get fixed for everyone.

It was easy, but it took forever.

Which is why so many botters used multiple accounts. The guys I knew who botted it only got about 2-3 ectos per hour per account. That's not very much, honestly.

mrmango · Mar 23, 2011, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Farmers are the worst subset of the GW community, as always

Dark Saviour · Mar 24, 2011, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Gah... Well, this pretty much stifles my shot at GWAMM + 5Ø/5Ø. :-/

Could barely stand to do this farm, but really, it was pretty much the only reasonably-efficient way to score cash I could stand at all. :-(

Lest121 · Mar 24, 2011, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

stupid fix... Anet should target bots specifically rather than kill the farm for everyone. If bots in PvE are such a big deal anyway, don't penalize the rest of the playerbase in the process. I guess I'v got my FoW armor now anyway, but it is disappointing to see my farm nerfed on the pretext of getting rid of bots... especially since this is PvE and many of us PvEers don't care about bots in PvE anyway.

They have done this for years, the players suffer because there system has no way of dealing with bots..

Loot scaling.
Limit on cash for trading.
Areas nerf because of the bots.

One thing that is clear since I have started playing this game 5 years ago, they rather screw the players instead of dealing with the bots, this is why most of my guild believes Anet owns the bots and this is how they make money on the side...

majoho · Mar 24, 2011, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

I don't see what's difficult to understand. Drunk drivers and bots are both wrongdoers who have a detrimental effect on the particular social environment they're in.

The whole premise for an analogy is that it's supposed to be similar, as I said this is far fetched and thus it's a terrible analogy.

Deviant Angel · Mar 24, 2011, 06:32 AM // 06:32

What they did with ToPK was pretty much the same as moving your food to another cabinet when you realize that you have a bug infestation. Will the bugs give up and die because you moved the food to another location? No. They will continue to scour your kitchen for food and probably succeed because they were allowed to live another day.

Bugs: 1
You: 0

I don't get the impression that their shoes have bug guts on them. Did anyone see Dhuum pop up and scythe a bunch of people this morning?

It's a little disappointing to think that moving a few mobs is the best they can do. I understand that they don't have the manpower to put up a real fight, but some of us have been sitting in those districts and reporting the people that were obviously botting. All they needed to do was ban them.

Unfortunately, they don't bother sending someone into the game to monitor the situation. They rely on log files and I'm guessing it takes more time to analyze them than it would to just log in and see it for themselves. I'm pretty sure the log file would show that my friend's account had only been played on for roughly 6 hours per day and they probably assumed that the different IP meant that he was travelling or something. Sounds pretty normal... right? HE WAS HACKED AND USED AS A BOT! It seems like the script these people used was undetectable and I doubt that the log file allowed them to see that he took the same path every single time.

I'm definitely not saying that my friend deserves a ban! I'm simply trying to point out that log files probably don't always tell the whole story.

It really does look like they have resorted to punishing everyone because they don't have the manpower to punish only the people that deserve it. I agree with everyone that pointed out that ToPK wasn't really a profitable farm unless you were running a few bots, but every little bit helps when you don't have much. What are people supposed to do once all the decent farming spots are nerfed because of bots? Buy gold and ectos from the people that were running them?

Star_Jewel · Mar 24, 2011, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviant Angel

It's a little disappointing to think that moving a few mobs is the best they can do. I understand that they don't have the manpower to put up a real fight, but some of us have been sitting in those districts and reporting the people that were obviously botting. All they needed to do was ban them.

In an ideal world, that would be the best solution. But until NCS/ANet have better account security, banning bots only leads the botters to hacking other accounts to use.

Brian the Gladiator · Mar 24, 2011, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Assuming this nerf is effective at stopping bots, it will decrease the amount of ectos in circulation and force the price to rise by the principle of supply and demand. This should make any legitimate farmer of ectos extremely happy. Although you will likely get fewer ectos, your profit over time should increase significantly.

Of course, if I am overestimating the impact of bots (how many there are and how many ectos they produce) then I am sorry.

Matirion Maeronta · Mar 24, 2011, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

Assuming this nerf is effective at stopping bots, it will decrease the amount of ectos in circulation and force the price to rise by the principle of supply and demand. This should make any legitimate farmer of ectos extremely happy. Although you will likely get fewer ectos, your profit over time should increase significantly.

Of course, if I am overestimating the impact of bots (how many there are and how many ectos they produce) then I am sorry.

You are probably not overestimating the bots, in alot of games bots are responsible for around 70% of the economy or more and after massive bans (above the number of active players in GW) or bot disabling updates in other games prices went insane. I see no reason that it would be different for GW then it would be for any other game, after all it's easy to have 10 accounts running at once with a bot but not as a player.
For a better comparison, let's assume a nolife farmer that farms for 16h a day, nonstop. In that same day, the botter would have had 24h nonstop farming per bot, assuming 10 bots are used that adds up to 240 hours of farming work per day.

If this nerf is effective, it would be great for any legit farmer but a disaster for any non farmer (inflation makes it harder to afford things if you don't farm). Changes like these are the most effective (legal) way to fight bots, though it won't stop them (nothing will). Banning 10k bots does nothing at all if they can just make/hack 20k new accounts the same day. Changes like these atleast stop them untill they make a new bot, which takes time)
The actual most effective way would be for ANET to spread a trap bot (a bot with a piece of code to alert them a person is a botter) and IP ban every user, however this is against the law in several places.

It would be another option for ANET to use a hack shield, quite a few other games use them (maplestory being one of them), though it will only last for a short time before the bots find a way around it (as MS has proven over and over)... Besides which, it is doubtable ANET can afford the hack shield for GW1 due to not so cheap license fees.

Swingline · Mar 24, 2011, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star_Jewel

In an ideal world, that would be the best solution. But until NCS/ANet have better account security, banning bots only leads the botters to hacking other accounts to use.

99% of the time its the persons fault they got hacked. ANet keeps telling ppl to not visit third party sites and dowloading third party software. One thing that would be nice is for ANet to completely restore the account including items lost. Hell even offer it in the gw store. I would pay 10-20 bucks to have all my stuff ive worked for over 69 months restored bc chances are it was my mistake I got hacked in the first place and you have to pay for your mistakes, ANet makes money and I get years of hard work back. If it was Anets fault they should admit it and restore it for free. Its just good business ethics.

EDIT: thought about this after i posted, it would be a good idea to start this now so GW2 players get protected as well since im sure it will happen in that game no matter how well they try to prevent botting.

Missing HB · Mar 24, 2011, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok

Just so you guys know, bots weren't the only ones abusing this broken farm. It was so easy to get ectos, it HAD to get fixed for everyone.

If we followed this logic , DoA/UW ( shadow form included) should be totally nerfed for months no?

jazilla · Mar 24, 2011, 01:05 PM // 13:05

So farming ectos at the beginning of a dungeon that was designed that way by ArenaNet is no longer acceptable, but Shadow Form Farming BDS's and UW is still copasetic?

Quite honestly, they should have just put in mechanics to hinder Assassins, Paragons, Dervishes, and Ritualists in ToPK like they did for these professions: Core Profession Hindrance

Gabs88 · Mar 24, 2011, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

ToPK HM is my ultimate testing ground for 7-hero team builds.

If you can manage doing ToPK HM w/heroes in HM without consumables, then you can definitely beat UW NM heroway without problems. Not that it hasn't been done already.

Other than that, I haven't used TopK as an ecto farming place...

I used that as a testing ground myself for 7h teams. But I gotta say UW NM has Horsemen, everything else is a total cakewalk but those I cant seem to get past.

makosi · Mar 24, 2011, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

The whole premise for an analogy is that it's supposed to be similar, as I said this is far fetched and thus it's a terrible analogy.

Well I got the analogy immediately.

The 'similarity' issue is a grey area and entirely subjective.

MithranArkanere · Mar 24, 2011, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmango

Farmers are the worst subset of the GW community, as always

Yeah. In most cummunities. Excepting when they add some kind of marker for them.

For example, if they added a Ferengi faction in Star Trek Online, so you can expect all kinds of unfair deals and scams from them.