Curse

UnicornStampede · Jun 11, 2011, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiritz

Ok ive only read a bit of this but im a bit confused and trying not to lmao at same time.Few days ago we have on guru posts about getting strongboxes thru cheating and players complaining and some even suggesting the time gets lengthened to stop the resigning.Now anet does this and now we still have ppl moaning how the times increased.
Only thing i can say is - tough!!.
No way are both sides going to be pleased so one side has to live with anets fix - those who are complaining would seem to be players who exploited gvg before and are now crying over it ( if im mistaken on any players i say sorry ) as they cant make money as fast now selling strongboxes.

The ideas we suggested wouldn't harmfully affect the actual real gvgs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

Indirectly , farming boxes isn't going to end because of that , but i don't see the point of complainers considering :
- Usually GvG fights always last more than 5mn , if team resigned before , 90% of time it will be because of DC
- Even if team is resigning , you still earn ladder points , you only don't get a chest and that's the same than pre-update

1) Not really, trip derv meta is roll or get rolled.

2) Before pre-update, very few casual guilds played GvG, making it dead in the american scene.

papryk · Jun 11, 2011, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

On the bright side, it looks like they've banned a few guilds off the bottom end of the ladder.

yup. i heard that too . some friend got banned from what i heard....and even one guy with 3k fame to r15 xd

Missing HB · Jun 11, 2011, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Yes but that's not the way to solve GvG problems.... Right now we're running henchs , thus we have no chances against top guilds running standard wiki meta with ranger + blood necro... However , we got ourselves to top100 in a matter of time because almost every opponent resigns at begin....

Their update didn't do anything , more over , punishing us when we timekill at 2-4 leading to mass resign, whereas syncers will still afford waiting 5mn....

drkn · Jun 11, 2011, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

if U could make more $ in PvP than PvE... then why wouldn't a PvE'er switch?

Cause, (a) the PvEr prefers PvE, simple as that - maybe PvP is too stressfull or he just likes the coop of PvE instead of coop vs another coop of PvP, and (b) because it's RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOin damn hard to get into PvP other than RA and JQ/FA if you have no PvPing friends already. And i'm not talking about the PvEr's lack of skill, or at least, not mainly.

Swingline · Jun 11, 2011, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by papryk

....and even one guy with 3k fame to r15 xd

That is too funny XD

Our Virus · Jun 11, 2011, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

Cause, (a) the PvEr prefers PvE, simple as that - maybe PvP is too stressfull or he just likes the coop of PvE instead of coop vs another coop of PvP, and (b) because it's RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOin damn hard to get into PvP other than RA and JQ/FA if you have no PvPing friends already. And i'm not talking about the PvEr's lack of skill, or at least, not mainly.

Join a PvP guild to help start you off? My guild led our group of new guys to their first halls win yesterday. They love it

doomfodder · Jun 11, 2011, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

Indirectly , farming boxes isn't going to end because of that , but i don't see the point of complainers considering :
- Usually GvG fights always last more than 5mn , if team resigned before , 90% of time it will be because of DC
- Even if team is resigning , you still earn ladder points , you only don't get a chest and that's the same than pre-update

The intent behind the 6/2/11 update was to INCENT players to play GvG (aka PvP love). Incentives are reward based. I applaud the use of sboxes to create the incentive - they have value to PvE'ers. That incentive ALONE is what has drawn more players into trying GvG since the update (I know that many of my guildies/alliance enjoy it). Are those that are drawn in the type "quality players" that most of us would like to see? Not always....

It would be simple to "disable" the resign feature in GvG & then only observe the matches that last less than 5 min to verify that the losing team wasn't doin the 55hp vamp thing or simply NOT moving from the base or using skills for example. Then ANET could take one of two actions... 1 -ONLY ban the bot accounts (ANET could then SELL/BAN more "bot" accounts to those that still intend to continue botting in the future) , or 2 - ban both accounts (reducing the player base size). Either way, THAT type of "match manipulation" can be addressed.

But, reducing incentives is NOT the approach to increasing the GvG player base. It is however a tactic that will trend towards a return to the "same as pre-update" condition...

drkn · Jun 11, 2011, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Virus - i don't feel like repeating myself, so take a look here.
On an unrelated note, beefing PvP with more rewards ain't the best way to attract more people to it. Not saying it won't work with some, and certainly is the easiest thing ANet can do, but there are bigger obstacles on the way to PvPhood than only 'meh, it's a waste of time' attitude.

tealspikes · Jun 11, 2011, 05:37 PM // 17:37

The problem is the GvG itself. It is designed for 10-20 minutes games but it can be legitimately won in less than 2. Add rewards to that and it's pretty obvious there's gonna be abuse. To fix the reward problem, you need to fix the format.

I put this suggestion in other thread: Make Guild Lord or Bodyguard invincible until a certain amount of time, and increase the number of NPCs like what we had in VoD days. Teams cannot resign before that time. Players that leave the game before that time become instantly dishonorable.

Since the lord won't die, teams won't accidently kill him before they can get the reward. Teams still have reason to push/prevent moral boosts, put dp on enemies, gank npcs, and build aggression during that time.

Kydd · Jun 11, 2011, 09:25 PM // 21:25

If you win within 5 minutes you have hardly any time wasted and your reward is winning and you get to go again. Hardly seems like a big deal to me.

Also while people may not be deterred from farming the boxes by cheating this will cut their rewards by more than half which is good enough imo.

UnicornStampede · Jun 11, 2011, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kydd

If you win within 5 minutes you have hardly any time wasted and your reward is winning and you get to go again. Hardly seems like a big deal to me.

Also while people may not be deterred from farming the boxes by cheating this will cut their rewards by more than half which is good enough imo.

But the time it takes to find another match isn't that fast, (especially in american hours), so you are punishing good guilds by not letting them receive a strongbox.

And an extra 3 minutes does nothing toward the gold sellers, so all this is doing is annoying actual gvg guilds and punishing for being good.

dwchang · Jun 11, 2011, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

Indirectly , farming boxes isn't going to end because of that , but i don't see the point of complainers considering :
- Usually GvG fights always last more than 5mn , if team resigned before , 90% of time it will be because of DC
- Even if team is resigning , you still earn ladder points , you only don't get a chest and that's the same than pre-update

Your second point is true, but in my experience, a top level Guild can destroy a low to mid-level Guild in under five minutes or rather, it's very apparent the match is over within the first five minutes. In fact, if you lose at the flag stand very quickly, a lot of Guilds just resign out since they want to find another match. That's fine, but now they can indirectly (or directly) grief the other Guild by denying them a prize they legitimately won.

Coast · Jun 12, 2011, 10:57 AM // 10:57

add /report function for resigning out! (so people can abuse this too)

Destiny2097 · Jun 12, 2011, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

If you win within 5 minutes you have hardly any time wasted and your reward is winning and you get to go again. Hardly seems like a big deal to me.

Have you actually GVG'ed in 2011 (or even at all)?

fowlero · Jun 12, 2011, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destiny2097

Have you actually GVG'ed in 2011 (or even at all)?

He does kinda have a point. Also:

With sustained activity this could be a good thing, less top guilds will play for the hell of it to get strongboxes when other top guilds aren't playing, leaving the mid/lower range guilds to fight it out and get stomped on less.

Whether the ladder's gonna remain active enough for that to be a good thing is questionable. Also the whole thing could've been done a lot better, but this probably requires the least coding/effort on their part so it's no surprise it's what's happened.

UnicornStampede · Jun 13, 2011, 02:45 AM // 02:45

What didn't happen from this update: Stoping the syncers from farming. (waiting an extra 3 min each match does nothing)

What happened from this update: Real guilds don't get a strongbox if they win under 5 min. Most guilds just resign before 5 min which griefs the other team from getting a strongbox

Nice job Anet, well done.

*lemming* · Jun 13, 2011, 03:20 AM // 03:20

^^^

12chars

Missing HB · Jun 13, 2011, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnicornStampede

What didn't happen from this update: Stoping the syncers from farming. (waiting an extra 3 min each match does nothing)

What happened from this update: Real guilds don't get a strongbox if they win under 5 min. Most guilds just resign before 5 min which griefs the other team from getting a strongbox

Nice job Anet, well done.

Exactly.... On several fights , we decided to just wait a few secs/mins at begin or after killing some , but realistically against good guilds ,you have no choice ....

Urcscumug · Jun 13, 2011, 11:08 AM // 11:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnicornStampede

What didn't happen from this update: Stoping the syncers from farming. (waiting an extra 3 min each match does nothing)

What happened from this update: Real guilds don't get a strongbox if they win under 5 min. Most guilds just resign before 5 min which griefs the other team from getting a strongbox

Nice job Anet, well done.

This pains me so very much, especially since the core cheating mechanic is so very simple, and should have been fixed ages ago.

Expecting people not to cheat is stupid, stupid, stupid.

There's exactly two ways people cheat: sync, and arranged matches.

Fix sync. Get rid of pure ladder matches and leave only tournaments.

doomfodder · Jun 13, 2011, 08:11 PM // 20:11

I've thought about this a bit more. Roll back the 5 min limit to 2 min...

Implement a realtively simple multi-prong AUTOMATED solution to the sbox farming exploit:

1. disable /resign function from GvG = stops griefing except for entire team exiting or DC the game
2. any player that exits or DC receives minimum 1 hour dishonorable hex = slows amount of available bots which enables farming
3. no strongboxes awarded to winning team if losing team either A) doesn't move, B) doesn't use skills, C) sacs/vamps to death or D) uses less than max armor = stops bots which enables farming.

no AUTOMATED way to stop syncers where team of 8 intentionally tanks by moving &/or using skills

It occurs to me that his thread is going nowhere & should probably be closed