Curse

Magikarp · Jun 14, 2011, 08:43 PM // 20:43

I'll join late.

I see a ton of whiners and typical rants, but as far as I go: I love GWs.

I'd easily say Guild Wars is my favorite MMO hands down (and I've played almost all of the mainstream ones), and it's almost for sure in my top 20 games I've ever played. I've logged thousands of hours, and even after taking copious breaks from the game (I've been going out of the country a lot for work over the last year), I still enjoy a quick RA match or dungeon. Anet updates the game enough to keep the skills fun, silly, and shake the meta. They respond to the community more than 90% of the P2P games I've been part of over the years, and for a darn near free game, offers more content and lore than ANY MMO I've ever played, let alone for the price.

StormDragonZ · Jun 14, 2011, 08:54 PM // 20:54

You know what bugs me the most?

It may be trivial, but the overuse and supersaturation of pop culture references in quest names, bosses, locations and even some explorable areas. I mean, really, can't come up with something creative?

chuckles79 · Jun 14, 2011, 09:00 PM // 21:00

I bought GW in May 2005. I'm still playing it. That says something right there, in itself as I bore easily.

Is the game flawless, of course not. Over the years, staffing at Anet has changed and people have came and went. 2 of the 3 founders aren't even there anymore and the game philosophy has changed numerous times. I remember how they nerfed trapping because they thought you shouldn't be able to solo farm the underworld...

I can list the few things they did truly wrong on one hand: (in no particular order)
1. Taking so long to come out with HM and more challenges after beating the campaign(s)
2. Caving into complaints and making HM a right instead of a privilege (Discordway, overpowered PvE skills)
3. Changing the UW 50 times to stop farming, then not stopping farming.
4. Perma-Shadowform (pre-nerf)
5. Waiting too long to do the PvP/PvE split and not reverting some "nerfed to hell" skills.

Simultaneously, there are about five things they've done great:
1. They came out with the first three campaigns and expansion fairly quickly.
2. They support all aspects of the game, though not as even-handedly as we may always want.
3. They are always finding ways to keep the game new. Not just GW:B but stuff like the Commando were epic and well done.
4. They strived to improve where they could. Storyline was the greatest weakness in Prophecies, but improved greatly in Nightfall and EotN.
5. They respond to the community (slowly, oh very slowly and not consistently. But they do it nevertheless.)

I addressed mainly PvE, because the heart of a game like this is always PvE.
PvP has had numerous issues over the years.
1. Dumping HB and TA for CA?? I'm not dissing the Codex format, I don't like it but I understand the thrill and challenge of "closed deck" play. However, gladiator is now further out of reach and anyone who worked hard on the HB title is SoL.
2. Uneven skill balances. Most recently the dervish, which was not a weak PvP class to begin with. Turret Rangers on and off again, Searing Flames post-NF release. Shroud of Silence (I abused the hell out of that to get my first glad title) dual monk with smite support.
3. There are problems in HA and GvG that I've heard about, but I don't participate in either anymore so I don't have any up to date rants.
4. Overpowering hexes
5. Poor balancing of professions across PvP. They didn't like what paragons did to GvG, so they just forgot them.

My biggest hope is that they have learned the important lessons from these failures, disappointments, and successes; and that it shows in GW2

chuckles79 · Jun 14, 2011, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormDragonZ

You know what bugs me the most?

It may be trivial, but the overuse and supersaturation of pop culture references in quest names, bosses, locations and even some explorable areas. I mean, really, can't come up with something creative?

Actually I find it amusing.
Though some of the stuff is way to topical and current and the internet memes are already dated (Red vs Blue, For Great Justice, etc.)

To Chicken To Die · Jun 14, 2011, 09:13 PM // 21:13

I think Anet has done a good job. Not every thing went smooth but GW has a large player base and has given most players hours of time well spent. I think that the one making that wiki articel has come to realize he or she spent more time into this game and regret it and now feels to need to QQ about his/her bad choices.

Anet doesn't force you to kill so many enemys. Anet did not put the standard of good players. The players did it. But it is always easy to act and then blame someone else.

And if it is so bad as some say in this thread then ask yourself shouldn't you just stop playing?

bena · Jun 14, 2011, 09:15 PM // 21:15

let me put it this way.... pay to play aion is about 2 orders of magnitude worse than guild wars management

as an example.... it wasnt possible AT ALL to get black dye, or pure red dye (pink dye sure) in game or out of game via cash shop.

let me spell that out.... aion was so retarded you couldnt buy dyes for the massively wonderful graphical game it was. so many char customization options and for YEARS it simply wasnt possible to have your armor dyed black or red or various other colors.

there were a lot of people asking to spend money to buy these dyes or whatever it would take so they could get these dyes. a lot of those people ended up becoming disinterested in aion and quit.

a lot of these old games theyll put out a patch and it create some massive bugs that never get fixed. yet somehow guild wars 1 is still running easily, people are still playing it.....

TLDR
guild wars 1 is doing above average, tbh they could be doing better, this or that could be better.... but im quite happy with "good" and "great" will come later with gw2 hopefully.

ofc now the cash shop opens up and black/white dyes are now purchaseable.

but.... its aion, so they managed to screw that up, buy more than 2 things with a legit credit card from the cash shop and your account gets autolocked from buying more things.... for many days.

so when people complain about gw1.... just realize sometimes the perfect decisions arent being made, sometimes they dont pay attention to whats happening in game that much. but at least you arent paying a subscription to deal with absolute incompetence like in aion. something is REALLY wrong with the management over there if they cant figure out a way for years to accept people willing to give away real money for something as simple as black dye.

Kanyatta · Jun 14, 2011, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormDragonZ

You know what bugs me the most?

It may be trivial, but the overuse and supersaturation of pop culture references in quest names, bosses, locations and even some explorable areas. I mean, really, can't come up with something creative?

That's always bugged me too. I'm sure it's super hilarious to the Anet staff when they named an NPC "Kiilroy Jenkins" or whatever his name is, but I can't help but groan when I grab the quest "Winning, Duh" from NPC "Sharlie Cheen", or whatever equivalent of that. I bet the devs thought it was really creative and funny when they made it, but it just screams of short-sighted non-creativity to me. And it has never been funny.

But, coming from the view of a non-hardcore PvP player, the argument in the opening post I agreed with wholeheartedly. Especially the attribute part. I really noticed it in Factions when so many Restoration Magic spells dealt damage, and when so many Channeling Magics healed, and the attributes just became so multidirectional that it just seemed unbalanced.

Prophecies had it right for the most part. Attributes had a set purpose and they stuck to it for the most part. Anet just attempted to make all professions after that "jacks-of-all-trades" that it just killed the game. Dervishes are basically uber-warriors, Paragons were Rangers plus Ritualists times 1000 when they first came out. Remember when every single freaking team in GvG had a Defensive Anthem chain? Or when every single HA group had at least one Incoming/Anthems Paragon? And don't even get me started on having to deal with that Trip Derv garbage for months before that got balanced.

Basically, Anet hasn't cared about GW1 since around 2007/08 when GW2 was announced. They're just trying to keep people interested so they'll sell more copies of GW2, hence the unacheivable max PvP titles and ridiculous grindmode missions.

Ghull Ka · Jun 14, 2011, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

That's always bugged me too. I'm sure it's super hilarious to the Anet staff when they named an NPC "Kiilroy Jenkins" or whatever his name is, but I can't help but groan when I grab the quest "Winning, Duh" from NPC "Sharlie Cheen", or whatever equivalent of that. I bet the devs thought it was really creative and funny when they made it, but it just screams of short-sighted non-creativity to me. And it has never been funny.

I agree. I've accepted as an inevitable truth that somewhere in GW2 will be a "Winning, duh" reference.

Coraline Jones · Jun 15, 2011, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

That's always bugged me too. I'm sure it's super hilarious to the Anet staff when they named an NPC "Kiilroy Jenkins" or whatever his name is, but I can't help but groan when I grab the quest "Winning, Duh" from NPC "Sharlie Cheen", or whatever equivalent of that. I bet the devs thought it was really creative and funny when they made it, but it just screams of short-sighted non-creativity to me. And it has never been funny.

I agree with you 100%. ArenaNet obviously doesn't follow the rules of most game companies, because in-jokes and pop culture references are amusing if they are used sparingly. The important word here is sparingly.

There's so many pop-culture references that it almost looks like there was some kind of award being offered for Most Unoriginal Game Content. You can't even avoid them if you wanted. They are in the skill names, NPC names, quest titles, quest reward dialogues, and area names. Even random NPCs standing in the middle of nowhere are sometimes pop-culture influenced.

For those that think that it's really great, I'll explain why it's bad game design. Most games actually try to get the player into the game and some people call it "immersion". When a developer uses a lame pop-culture reference, it's the equivalent of breaking the fourth-wall with the player. It's the game telling you, "Ha ha, yeah, I know this is just a game."

Also, all pop-culture references get stale very quickly and your game looks dated after a time. Years later, when nobody even laughs about Leeroy Jenkins anymore----your game will still have that garbage meme forever. Why not put in a NPC named Kramer who says, "Hey, can you do me a solid?" or "Giddyup!"?

cataphract · Jun 15, 2011, 06:18 AM // 06:18

I don't have problems with pop-culture references and absolutely loved "Worthy deeds done dirt cheap".

Iuris · Jun 15, 2011, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormDragonZ

You know what bugs me the most?

It may be trivial, but the overuse and supersaturation of pop culture references in quest names, bosses, locations and even some explorable areas. I mean, really, can't come up with something creative?

Me too. Sometimes, Nightfall felt like there was nothing BUT references in the game, once I went back to do the quests...

I don't mind some, as a "spice" to liven up the meal, but most of the substance should have been original GW stuff.

Swingline · Jun 15, 2011, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X

Nothing special. Playability is your own opinion.

BF2
CoD
Halo
Smash Bros
Street Fighter
Pokemon

To name only a few games.

I still play Halo:Combat Evolved and BF2. Both still great games.

Ayrrow · Jun 15, 2011, 09:53 AM // 09:53

It's not bad per se. Just really stale and bland.

The skill updates need to come faster, a lot faster. Make Smiting Monks pve viable etc.

It would be interesting if they added sort of "Sorrow's Furnace" style content. Maybe with a new armour for each profession.

New Skills/Professions would be really cool, but considering the current issues... (I play solely PvE, so skill balancing doesn't really affect me)

cataphract · Jun 15, 2011, 10:41 AM // 10:41

Any new armor would only be a re-skin of an existing model as are EotN armors. And since we payed for EotN there's no reason to think that a SF-style update would have truly new armors SF being a free addition and all.

Reformed · Jun 15, 2011, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormDragonZ

You know what bugs me the most?

It may be trivial, but the overuse and supersaturation of pop culture references in quest names, bosses, locations and even some explorable areas. I mean, really, can't come up with something creative?

It works for Family Guy so it must be great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by To Chicken To Die

Anet doesn't force you to kill so many enemys.

Tell that to Zerg rush type quests and zones peppered throughout the game. An excessive number of enemies is not a substitute for actual difficulty, it's just laziness.

X Dr Pepper X · Jun 15, 2011, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed

Tell that to Zerg rush type quests and zones peppered throughout the game. An excessive number of enemies is not a substitute for actual difficulty, it's just laziness.

This.

Excessive numbers of enemies in no way shape or form contribute to difficulty except in a numbers game like WoW. GW isnt designed to be a numbers game.

We also get dumb mobs like 30 Oni from the deep which are all either way too easy to slaughter with a single counter build or impossible because you did not counter their build. We get tons of stupid 1 dimensional zerg teams composed of the same thing in GW1 like Wind Riders and Ruby Djinn which the developers must conclude as difficult to counter (if you have no brain).

Then we get WIK which is both a Zerg and a capable team and the same goes for DoA.

They havent learned their lesson yet in mob design.

Xiaquin · Jun 15, 2011, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Kind of surprised that pop-culture references are considered so egregious, they're really not that bad. If you think it's too much, you haven't seen anything.

Here's a random one:

Quote:

The innkeeper at The Temple of Telhamat, in Hellfire Peninsula is named Caregiver Ophera Windfury <Innkeeper>.

It's not like a character such as Blimm is such a big deal. I feel Anet generally does them subtle and witty enough without trying to goad us.

greep · Jun 15, 2011, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Well as for pop-culture references, I wish they just stuck to keeping them in shouts like they mainly used to. When they're all bundled in one place they don't break immersion and you're actually curious what they'll come up with.

Except drakes on a plain, that was pure win.

chuckles79 · Jun 15, 2011, 06:17 PM // 18:17

I read suggestions on Guru, and a lot of it is the same crap. The game sucks, so give me a new Sorrrow's Furnace and new armor....are you kidding me?

What seems to be missing, is a single coherent skill philosophy from ANet, and I'm already worried and hopeful about GW2 from the little that I've heard.
[*]First problem, is reactive updates. No one likes their mesmers, or their ritualist, or their dervs anymore....buff the everlasting crap out of them and force them into the meta.
The fact that there even is a meta (ANet embraced the meta concept at first, probably out of exhaustion or laziness) is a serious problem.
This leads to continual update envy. "Elementalists are useless in HM!" No, elementalists just haven't been reworked since HM came out.

A lot of these can be fixed with small changes. With the PvE/PvP split, I'm surprised that issues like this are not resolved or resolved oh so slowly.
[*]Second Issue, giving up. Paragons are a great example. When first unleashed in PvP they through team based PvP into chaos. Unstrippable, spammable prots and blocks. The Anet answer was to nerf everything (almost every para shout is split) and write off the profession. Why not just buff vocal minority so that 5e, and insta cast with 3 sec recharge?
You know, strategy. The PvP format is becoming stale and 1 dimensional, where everyone brings the same teams, the same professions; because anything else would fail.

A lot of this is being fixed in GW2, except that PvP is already starting to seem gimmicky. Apparently guardians ruled the matches until someone figured out how to spike with thief.
So already the format is building around Guardian, thief to kill their guardian, and thief stoppage (assuming engineer glue gunning or maybe unannounced profession (the mesmer) ability).
The game isn't even released and three professions are already meta'd.

Cuilan · Jun 15, 2011, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X

We also get dumb mobs like 30 Oni from the deep which are all either way too easy to slaughter with a single counter build or impossible because you did not counter their build.

Then we get WIK which is both a Zerg and a capable team and the same goes for DoA.

You don't need counter builds to easily take on a mob of 30 Oni.

BLA is a single quest, so I don't see how it can be representative of the majority of WiK.