Curse

Killed u man · May 05, 2011, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8tborderx

I have finally gotten around to creating a guild for new PvP players, or those who just want to give GvG a try. Right now I am trying to just get members and farm the GvG Zaishen Combat quest running BYOB (Bring Your Own Build). The only requirements are that you have mumble, a mic, and are willing to listen to calls.

The guild will be rage free, and I am trying to create a good environment for new players to get their feet wet, and hopefully increase interest in GvG. If you would like to join PM me here on the forums or in-game. IGN - Josh Ruchko.

I'dd like to give you a tip though:

Byob can be fun and all (it's the only GvG I play, as regular GvG is hardly fun anymore), but alot often depends on the skills you bring. I know it kinda goes against the nature of byob to make sure people bring good builds, but there simply isn't any fun in byob if you bring some effective sin bar, and everyone else running wammo's or smth.

In short:

Run byob, but kindly ask people that instead of running the bar they want, they run the most closely related 'gimmick' (read: meta/effective) bar there is.

For example:

Someone pings a bar with mind freeze, malestrom, ice spikes, ice prism, ... This bar surely isn't bad, but for all intents and purposes (in GvG), a standard MoI bar is simply better (red: best) in every way. So you simply ask this person to run he standard MoI bar (which has proven itself to be highly effective) as you've just doubled your chances of winning.

Since most shitty bars people ping can be converted to a "closely related meta bar which plays almost identical", it would be a good idea of doing so. Essentially, everyone can still run whatever they want, and you have alot better chances of winning aswell. (And winning = learning)

Sk8tborderx · May 05, 2011, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I'dd like to give you a tip though:

Byob can be fun and all (it's the only GvG I play, as regular GvG is hardly fun anymore), but alot often depends on the skills you bring. I know it kinda goes against the nature of byob to make sure people bring good builds, but there simply isn't any fun in byob if you bring some effective sin bar, and everyone else running wammo's or smth.

In short:

Run byob, but kindly ask people that instead of running the bar they want, they run the most closely related 'gimmick' (read: meta/effective) bar there is.

For example:

Someone pings a bar with mind freeze, malestrom, ice spikes, ice prism, ... This bar surely isn't bad, but for all intents and purposes (in GvG), a standard MoI bar is simply better (red: best) in every way. So you simply ask this person to run he standard MoI bar (which has proven itself to be highly effective) as you've just doubled your chances of winning.

Since most shitty bars people ping can be converted to a "closely related meta bar which plays almost identical", it would be a good idea of doing so. Essentially, everyone can still run whatever they want, and you have alot better chances of winning aswell. (And winning = learning)

I am fully aware of that, and while it is BYOB I intend to have people run effective bars. At the same time though, I will allow stubborn players to play an ineffective bar so they can learn WHY it is ineffective. If they are unable to learn from their mistakes, and continue to drag the team down due to their selfishness I have no problem kicking them.

It is a guild for beginners, but players who refuse to show a willingness to improve are better off not playing GvG IMO, it will cause nothing but frustration to everyone around them.

I feel I should also add that I was the leader of a top 200 guild back in 2008, and we were still climbing and improving however I was in the army and got deployed, and the guild fell apart. While I am still a bit rusty, I am still confident I can at least get players at a decent level where they can become good enough to join more serious guilds.

If anyone with a good amount of GvG experience would like to member with a second account or help out at all it would be a huge help.

The guild is going to play BYOB for several reasons:
-Fastest way for new players to learn the importance of communication and how to communicate properly.
-Fastest way to get players to be more adaptive and how to recognize and capitalize on opponents mistakes.
-BYOB has been the best way to improve positioning and how to not die from my experience.
-Due to little/no real backline players are forced to learn how to make the most out of their bars, both offensively and defensively.
-Because there is so much running around the map, players learn the different maps faster, and how each map affects builds and strategy.
-Increases players awareness of both mini-map and time, and will allow them to learn why they are important.

Overall, in my experience, BYOB simply provides the fastest growth of new/inexperienced players in GvG. Once they are good in the areas listed above they shouldn't have any issues playing most organized team builds. They wont be great, but they wont be terrible either.

Killed u man · May 05, 2011, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8tborderx

I am fully aware of that, and while it is BYOB I intend to have people run effective bars. At the same time though, I will allow stubborn players to play an ineffective bar so they can learn WHY it is ineffective. If they are unable to learn from their mistakes, and continue to drag the team down due to their selfishness I have no problem kicking them.

It is a guild for beginners, but players who refuse to show a willingness to improve are better off not playing GvG IMO, it will cause nothing but frustration to everyone around them.

I feel I should also add that I was the leader of a top 200 guild back in 2008, and we were still climbing and improving however I was in the army and got deployed, and the guild fell apart. While I am still a bit rusty, I am still confident I can at least get players at a decent level where they can become good enough to join more serious guilds.

If anyone with a good amount of GvG experience would like to member with a second account or help out at all it would be a huge help.

You can always add me on your friendlist to pm whenever you're doing some byob, as I know first hand how hard it can be at times to get 8 people together from scratch.

I'm on at random times, so maybe you'll catch me on, and I got a fair amount of GvG experience. I am on a shitty laptop during weekdays, though, but concidering you'll be playing with inexperience people (no offence intended), I definatly don't think I'll be amongst the worst

Gl

IGN: Evangelia Atreides

tealspikes · May 07, 2011, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Using BYOB to introduce newbies to GvG...It would be better to have a large pool of 'working' split builds (mb ele, wc sin, iop mez, etc.) and let players decide between them. Newbies bringing their RA bars into GvG isn't going to teach them very much, especially when they are losing most of their games because of it. It would also be wise to take two monks instead of one since it's much easier to push and focus on tactics with a second monk, and it's a larger safety net for newer players who are still learning about positioning. 1 monk often means games will be lost so fast before they even realize what happened or what mistakes to improve upon, especially with the triple dervish meta rolling so fast through everything.

I've guested for friends' guilds that tried to do exactly as yours, and the new players lose interest faster than they improve when you just throw in them in the fire and expect them to adapt and learn. Give them working builds, and give them a second monk. From my experience that is the best way to help them improve (aside from an actual teambuild) while keeping their interest.

Dervish Kid · May 07, 2011, 04:01 PM // 16:01

I do pve on this game, pvp on a few other mmos.. i like the idea, but gw1 pvp is just meeeh.

Sk8tborderx · May 07, 2011, 04:55 PM // 16:55

I disagree, the reason for allowing them to experiment a bit is so they can understand why certain bars are ran, and why players use 1 skill over another. If they are not allowed to learn from their own failures they will never have a chance at becoming a top tier player. Right now I currently see a very small handful of guilds trying anything new, everyone else simply copies them. It is easy to see which players have had a chance to learn through their own mistakes, and players who simply copy other bars.

That doesn't mean you cannot become great if you stick to a build, rawr proved that. I would just prefer to have players that are capable of thinking for themselves and being versatile with what they can run like dR.

I would rather have a player with a good understanding of skill interactions and the ability to run almost any build well over a player who can't succeed without copying others. The downside is that they usually improve at a slower rate at first, but once things start to click they will surpass the players who just run meta.

Before anyone comments, I understand that this isn't true for everybody. It is just my opinion on the matter.

EDIT: I should also add that I am not claiming I can produce top tier players. I am only trying to give new PvP players a solid base from which to build upon.

Pvp Shuttle Service · May 07, 2011, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Hi I'd be interested in GvGing with any guild really, I just want to get some experience, I'm really a complete noob to GvG, at PvP I'm allright.. no g title

In game name: Pvp shuttle service or Gail alley

floor · May 08, 2011, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dervish Kid

I do pve on this game, pvp on a few other mmos.. i like the idea, but gw1 pvp is just meeeh.

Of course ur perfectly entitled to hold that opinion, but from what i can tell most people who dislike pvp in guild wars (GvG and HA) in particular are the 90% of people who only game very casually.

In games such as league of legends, or other popular PvP games out at the moment, you can get the game and after only 1 week you are able to play pvp at a pretty functional level. Im not claiming you are going to be world beater but you can at least not be totally clueless.

On the other hand guild wars.... It can take months of playing to actually understand all the intricacies of the game, and if you only play once or twice a week, it could take literally years. To be good at guild wars, you do need to be a relatively hardcore gamer, and most people simply are not motivated enough to commit the required time i guess.

As a more on topic note though, if you want new players to improve the fastest way is to just give them 1to1 guidance on a regular basis. Get someone good, and buddy them up with someone new for a month or so. At the end of the month, if ur decent player was an evenly remotely decent teacher, ur "newbie" is probably now a top 300 player.

The problem here is that you need to find someone good, who is actually willing to take a complete beginner under their arm and show them the ropes. Unfortunately finding good people with a large amount of patience, and also the ability to "teach" is not so easy. The biggest problem that most people in guild wars have when they try and teach beginners, is that they are not teachers. Breaking down tactics and skills into the absolute basics is not easy and most people either cant do this, or simply dont bother, but thats what has to be done in order for new ppl to learn. Telling your beginner team to simply push a flagger is absolutely useless if they have no idea why they are doing it, or even how to go about it.

The same theory applies in all real life activities as well, group coaching is never as effective as 1to1 tuition.

Ritchiebaxter · May 10, 2011, 06:35 AM // 06:35

I like what you have done there Sk8tborderx. I would like to join you as a guest if that is ok? GvG is the only PvP I have not got to grips with and I am willing to take some good beatings in the learning process. If guest invites are ok with you then contact me IG Yen Lo Wang I

Sk8tborderx · May 14, 2011, 08:18 AM // 08:18

The guild is disbanded as of yesterday due to real life getting in the way. I now remember my biggest reason for quitting GvG a few years ago, you spend more time setting up for GvG then actually playing. Hopefully GW2 fixes this problem.

Sorry to anyone who showed interest, just keep watching the guild recruitment section, you can usually find a new GvG guild there.

Deviant · May 14, 2011, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8tborderx

I now remember my biggest reason for quitting GvG a few years ago, you spend more time setting up for GvG then actually playing. Hopefully GW2 fixes this problem.

There's GvG going on, but you need a group of people with consistent logging habits or a large group of people to pull from such as in an alliance of guilds that also GvG.

For GW2 the 5v5 format for structured PvP has already been announced. That means it's easier to form a group, and it also means more, smaller groups. Not to mention of course more people will be playing it since it will be a new game.

infi · May 17, 2011, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviant

There's GvG going on, but you need a group of people with consistent logging habits or a large group of people to pull from such as in an alliance of guilds that also GvG.

For GW2 the 5v5 format for structured PvP has already been announced. That means it's easier to form a group, and it also means more, smaller groups. Not to mention of course more people will be playing it since it will be a new game.

i disagree. how can it be easier if level of personal skill will grow up with group of 5 men. So you must get right people if you don't want to lose all the time. yes you will need less players but they must be better at the same time.

Deviant · May 17, 2011, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Well, if they have any sort of ELO rating ladder system like they have now then you won't need better players. Obviously better players means you'll win more and face better teams, but so what?

Are you suggesting that it would be the same or harder than it is now? It's such a pain to find two Monks (sometimes that only want to play Prot or Heal only), a decent flagger, 2-3 melee, and 2-3 mid-line. That's a lot of work to form a team.

Compare that to 5 of any type of players to organize a match. It's not even close.

floor · May 17, 2011, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviant

Well, if they have any sort of ELO rating ladder system like they have now then you won't need better players. Obviously better players means you'll win more and face better teams, but so what?

Are you suggesting that it would be the same or harder than it is now? It's such a pain to find two Monks (sometimes that only want to play Prot or Heal only), a decent flagger, 2-3 melee, and 2-3 mid-line. That's a lot of work to form a team.

Compare that to 5 of any type of players to organize a match. It's not even close.

U say that, but theres a reason that a lot of people do still GvG and didnt entirely move to LoL. 5v5 with random professions is trash and gets boring in a couple months. Im aware this is probably the route anet are going down, but i think its a big mistake. If GW2 is just another HoN/LoL, im gna be absolultey gutted honestly. They could do better by just re-releasing the current gvg concept, and just introducing new skills and professions, then getting the new influx of players involved.

GvG is 6 years old and STILL BETTER than LoL/HoN and any other dota clones, its just got inactive. Why anet wanted to make big changes to something that isnt broken is entirely beyond me. In times gone by, finding 8 people to GvG was not a challenge in the slightest. 5v5, no monks, LoL clone, are all reasons why gw2 is going to absolutely suck. It has a hell of a reputation to live up to, and in PvE i have no doubt it will, but i cant see gvg or even pvp in general ever being as good as gw1.

Coast · May 17, 2011, 06:25 PM // 18:25

It(gw+gw2) won't be as good as gw used to be.
They seem to attract a younger public (less hardcore 'talented') with all their changes.
Thats gonne be the trend for gw2 also I'm affraid.
All depth is gone.

Skyy High · May 17, 2011, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by floor

U say that, but theres a reason that a lot of people do still GvG and didnt entirely move to LoL. 5v5 with random professions is trash and gets boring in a couple months. Im aware this is probably the route anet are going down, but i think its a big mistake. If GW2 is just another HoN/LoL, im gna be absolultey gutted honestly. They could do better by just re-releasing the current gvg concept, and just introducing new skills and professions, then getting the new influx of players involved.

What? You realize that you can do 5v5 random AND 5v5 in organized teams, right?

This also has to be the first time I've ever heard GW2 called a "LoL clone"...lol.

miriforst · May 17, 2011, 07:33 PM // 19:33

I got a slight problem, i adore the gvg formate (until a certain profession with scythes entered the stage *cough*) but i am bound by loyalty to a guild that does not set a foot outside of factionland.

I still try to teach people different pvp mechanics and strategies and suggest builds fo their professions though. Helped a guy with the basics of playing an eviscerate warrior, and he was willing to learn and impressed by what he could do if he really focused. So thats one alliance member, now left 998 - the ones who i do not know of who is lurking around with knowledge.

I am thinking of organizing a LAN party for my friends who do not play guild wars. Last time we did some scrimnaging and to my surprise they actually liked it and got the basic hangs of it (for being like the first time). So maybe in the future we may form a casual gvg team if we try really hard (oh my hopeless optimism, but one can hope right?).

tealspikes · May 20, 2011, 12:56 AM // 00:56

I suspect Gw2 PvP will be more like Bloodline Champions than League of Legends. Almost everything we've heard about the combat so far points to BLC.

It's true that Gw2 will be targeting a much less hardcore crowd, but the biggest problem with GvG was its accessibility. Gw1 was on the other side of the spectrum of being too exclusive. While each of us has our own preference on hardcore vs casual, I think everyone can agree where money is.

Reverend Dr · May 20, 2011, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by infi

yes you will need less players but they must be better at the same time.

This is something that people seem to either be forgetting, overlooking, or just not thinking about.

People think that smaller teams means it would be easier to get in and while its easier to get the appropriate number of warm bodies, each player has to pull [roughly] 1/5 of the team instead of 1/8, so an inexperienced player is more of a liability. I would expect PuG groups to become far more selective far faster in a 5 man team environment than they did in the current 8 man.

malo · May 23, 2011, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Heroes must be allowed in gvg again, it's impossible to get a gvg at american time... Removing them and putting a crappy henchmens instead heroes is just one of the worst update ever ( Team arenas too ) .